VF Electric Handbrake Warning

To all those who will be driving a new VF, Beware, the electric handbrake can be activated at any speed!
For those like myself who are so use to the power window switch being in the centre console on the VE, that location is now the handbrake switch! I was luckily only driving slowly out of a carpark maybe 20 kmh and I went to put up my window, I unconsciously went to the centre console with my left hand as i have done for years and flicked the switch! Needless to say the handbrake worked extremely well and the contents of my girlfriends handbag went from her lap to all over the dash in a split second!
I spoke to the dealer and asked if there was a certain speed at which point the handbrake wouldn't engage for safety's sake and the answer was NO!
So be very careful and conscious when doing highway speeds (especially in the wet) or if you have kids in the car that like playing with switches!
Poor design and potentially very dangerous!
Cheers Greg.

That is ridiculous.

Reminds me of my youth and handbrakies in the old HR wagon :lol:

That cannot be right.

No way that is right. An accidental press of the button at speed could be fatal.

Would be worth testing on a dirt road, I'd imagine if it comes on at all it would be reduced by the speed so it doesn't lock up, my understanding is it must work as an emergency brake as well as a parking brake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C4B

That cannot be right.

---

I didn't imagine it I can assure you, I'm not game to try it at a higher speed but feel free to give it a go yourself and let us know what happens?
The dealer even told me he had done it himself while leaving a parking ticket machine/ boom gate. He had his window down to put ticket in machine and when boom went up he drove through and flicked the switch trying to do up his window, as he is used to VE switch locations, and he nearly headbutted the windscreen!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IJ.

Would be worth testing on a dirt road, I'd imagine if it comes on at all it would be reduced by the speed so it doesn't lock up, my understanding is it must work as an emergency brake as well as a parking brake.

---

I would like to think the ABS would at least cut in and stop the rear wheels locking up? I'm not going to test it though!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gjohnson

I would like to think the ABS would at least cut in and stop the rear wheels locking up? I'm not going to test it though!

---

As per IJ's comment, the handbrake also serves as an emergency brake. If your brakes fail you would want to hand brake to work at any speed. In fact I think you'll find it might even be an ADR/Roadworthy requirement.

As to your point, the handbrake doesn't have an ABS function so it would just lock the rear wheels at worst. And because it doesn't have an ABS function the ESC wouldn't work on the rear wheels either, the ESC would have to try and control the car by braking the front wheels only.

I wonder if the ESC is linked to the handbrake switch such that it can compensate for possible rear wheel lock up by the handbrake?

Who wants to be a lab rat and test this out for us?

Cheers, Matthew

Grass paddock, get up to 80 clicks and flick the switch. Oh and make sure you've got the Go-Pro recording :driving:

Put a call in to a Mate that worked on the VF, he doesn't know but is asking the guys that did the programming..

Quote:

---

When the Park brake is engaged above xxx speed the ABS pump is fired up then once the speed drops to yy the mechanical brake takes over

---

Hmmm have to wonder what happens in the case of hydraulic failure...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IJ.

Hmmm have to wonder what happens in the case of hydraulic failure...

---

Then it goes straight to the park brake presumably. Thinking about this, hopefully GM have linked the park brake in with the ABS and ESC and it could all actually work very well. If you press the park brake button whilst moving the normal hydraulic brakes are applied until safe to apply the park brake, if the hydraulic brakes don't work then the park brake comes on. By applying the hydraulic brakes first than the ABS and ESC can still work.

I'll be curious to see what your mate at GMH says.

Cheers, Matthew

The info I've read on these electric handbrake systems suggest they have a safety feature that won't allow it to engage it if just pressed (above a certain speed), but if pressed and HELD it will engage as an emergency brake. So a quick press won't work, but a held press will happily put you through the windscreen no matter what speed you were doing.

He Laughed at Greg's story and said it would be very easy to do if you were used to driving a VE :)

Just waiting to hear back from the Brake Engineer.

THinking about it a bit more, if the park brake is all linked up with the ABS and ESC than the ABS could still work with the park brake on. If the park brake was on and had locked the rear wheels, but the front wheels were still turning, the ABS sensors would show a difference in wheel velocities and could release the park brake and consequently unlock the rear wheels. In theory the ABS module could (electrically) pulse the park brake to give it anti lock behaviour as well. Don't know if this is how far GM have gone with it.

In a way an electric park brake is a partial step towards electic (non hydraulic) braking.

Cheers, Matthew

VF's just keep getting better, you telling me they come out with an "Initiate Drift" button? :bravo:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VTSSDUDE

VF's just keep getting better, you telling me they come out with an "Initiate Drift" button? :bravo:

---

"Auto Hoon" ;)

People need to stop and think about what is going on....

The hand / park / emergency brake has a number of requirements,

• preventing the car from rolling when unattended.
• Acting as an emergency brake should an issue with the main braking system arise that prevents normal operation.

these are two, there are probably more...

The operation of the electric brake in the VF appears to be functionally correct. Those thinking it's crazy not to have a lockout above a certain speed should look at the manual "cable" hand brakes in older cars. these still operate at any speed.

I see no issues with the functional operation, but the location of the switch is a poor choice. Placing the switch in a position that was previously used for window operation is simply bad design. It's be a significant improvement if the switch was only active if the main brake pedal was also active. All new Holdens monitor the brake pedal state, it's be very easy to add this switch as a "park brake enabler".

Simon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by swingtan

People need to stop and think about what is going on....

The hand / park / emergency brake has a number of requirements,

• preventing the car from rolling when unattended.
• Acting as an emergency brake should an issue with the main braking system arise that prevents normal operation.

these are two, there are probably more...

The operation of the electric brake in the VF appears to be functionally correct. Those thinking it's crazy not to have a lockout above a certain speed should look at the manual "cable" hand brakes in older cars. these still operate at any speed.

I see no issues with the functional operation, but the location of the switch is a poor choice. Placing the switch in a position that was previously used for window operation is simply bad design. It's be a significant improvement if the switch was only active if the main brake pedal was also active. All new Holdens monitor the brake pedal state, it's be very easy to add this switch as a "park brake enabler".

Simon

---

Couldn't agree more about the position of the switch, if it was on the dash in front of you maybe to the right of the steering wheel near the headlight switch were no kids or other passengers could reach it, it wouldn't be a problem.

Engine on, speed above 15 km/h
Action- Lift and hold switch
•If cruise control is on, cruise is disabled
•ESC controlled deceleration down to 6 km/h (4 mph)
•Red tell-tale illuminated
•Brake light applied
•Continuous chime above 15 km/h (9 mph)
•DIC display = Release Park Brake Switch (above 15 km/h (9 mph))
•EPB static apply below 6 km/h (4 mph)
•DIC display = Park Brake Set
•Red tell-tale remains illuminated

Engine ON, speed above 15 km/h (9 mph)
Action- Lift and hold switch for several seconds
-ESC controlled stop releases when switch is released. Tell-tale, brake light, chime and DIC go off after brief delay

Engine ON, speed between 6–15 km/h (4–9 mph)
Action- Lift and hold switch
•ESC controlled deceleration down to 6 km/h (4 mph)
•Red tell-tale illuminated
•Brake light applied
•No chime during vehicle motion
•No DIC message during vehicle motion
•EPB static apply below 6 km/h (4 mph)
•DIC display = Park Brake Set
•Red tell-tale remains illuminated

I will add that VF uses a switch location and EPB operation similar to many other cars with this modern style of handbrake.
It is perhaps a good time to remind people that they "should" become familiar with the car they are driving BEFORE they start driving it, rather than just making assumptions that all cars "are the same".

This sounds quite scary. My wife did also lift the electronic brake switch in her VW Tiguan while I was driving at around 20km/h .... it also does work just like pulling the handbrake full up instantly. The bad thing is that she had lots of stuff on the centre console and accidentally did it while lifting some of it off. I cant bring myself to think what would happen at speed with kids playing with it ... It would be good to get some proper detail about how this works.

Alex

My old Disco3 deactivated the electric handbrake above 10km/h.

If you had a brake failure, holding the switch up for an extended period would slowly activate the handbrake so you could still stop in a controlled fashion.

The Holden system sounds like a class action suit waiting to happen ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alex(AUS)

This sounds quite scary. My wife did also lift the electronic brake switch in her VW Tiguan while I was driving at around 20km/h .... it also does work just like pulling the handbrake full up instantly. The bad thing is that she had lots of stuff on the centre console and accidentally did it while lifting some of it off. I cant bring myself to think what would happen at speed with kids playing with it ... It would be good to get some proper detail about how this works.

Alex

---

End of the day it is no different to a person in a car with an "old school" handbrake lever pulling the handbrake lever on whilst the car is being driven...
I posted the info above about the way it operates so that people are in no doubt about what speeds and button usage is required, and what actions will follow. For most "accidental" situations in a VF, the bit below will apply, and most importantly, WILL CEASE TO SLOW THE CAR DOWN as soon as the button is released...
Engine ON, speed above 15 km/h (9 mph)
Action- Lift and hold switch for several seconds
-ESC controlled stop releases when switch is released. Tell-tale, brake light, chime and DIC go off after brief delay
Hence, normality will return, just as if the handbrake lever is released in an older car.

It would be handy if a warning chime is given say 4-5sec before the handbrake is activated when travelling over 15kms, but I do realise in an emergency you really don't want a delay before it applies.

On a test drive, I also noticed if you leave the handbrake on and drive off it releases automatically.

Hi people
Been there .. done that ! ... same scenario in the carpark ...went to wind down the window to open the garage and came to an abrupt halt ;/
Steve

how the hell would the car now you were about to apply the handbrake?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VNV8

how the hell would the car now you were about to apply the handbrake?

---

Obviously, once you pull the button up, give you a quick warning chime and then apply the brake, when travelling over 15km.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cfour

Obviously, once you pull the button up, give you a quick warning chime and then apply the brake, when travelling over 15km.

---

Or the chime could be replaced with a voice that says "Really? The handbrake at this speed? OOOOOK then, better grab a hold of something" **screeech** :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sbmk1982

Hi people
Been there .. done that ! ... same scenario in the carpark ...went to wind down the window to open the garage and came to an abrupt halt ;/
Steve

---

A new variation on the "I went to indicate and the wipers came on"... ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by planetdavo

A new variation on the "I went to indicate and the wipers came on"... ;)

---

or " I accidentally the whole handbrake " .....

It also serves a purpose for bedding in rear brakes :teach: Bmw's work the same. The handbrake switch is isolated so you can really accidentally pull it up.

Maybe there's a market for missile switch covers for the park brake switch.

Bit of a worry imagine if a kid just activated it by accident.

From holden

Hi Robert,Thanks for contacting us! Through reading the owners manual, it states 'If the EPB is applied while the vehicle is in motion, a chime will sound, and the DIC message RELEASE PARK BRAKE SWITCH will be displayed. The vehicle will decelerate as long as the switch is held in the up position. Releasing the EPB switch during the deceleration will release the parking brake. If the switch is held in the up position until the vehicle comes to a stop, the EPB will remain applied'. Hope this helps. Thanks, Aaron @ Holden

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by offshore

Bit of a worry imagine if a kid just activated it by accident.

---

My thoughts on this scenario are- how did the restrained kid in the back seat reach it to begin with?
It is a legal requirement for all persons in a motor vehicle in this country to be restrained in a moving vehicle. If not, why is the driver still driving the vehicle illegally?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by offshore

Bit of a worry imagine if a kid just activated it by accident.

---

My thoughts on this scenario are- how did the restrained kid in the back seat reach it to begin with?
It is a legal requirement for all persons in a motor vehicle in this country to be restrained in a moving vehicle. If not, why is the driver still driving the vehicle illegally?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by planetdavo

My thoughts on this scenario are- how did the restrained kid in the back seat reach it to begin with?
It is a legal requirement for all persons in a motor vehicle in this country to be restrained in a moving vehicle. If not, why is the driver still driving the vehicle illegally?

---

Dont know what planet your on davo but kids are kids, they can undo a seat belt in a second, who knows jump through the seats step on it push it, things do happen, seems like a stupid idea not to have it disabled at speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by benjo

Dont know what planet your on davo but kids are kids, they can undo a seat belt in a second, who knows jump through the seats step on it push it, things do happen, seems like a stupid idea not to have it disabled at speed.

---

There are pro's and con's to either option benjo. Having no available handbrake for a car at speed that has suffered a hydraulic brake failure is a situation we best not think about...
Sorry you got offended so much fella, but at some point, parents need to show some responsibility for what they brought into the world.
I guess, unfortunately, we live ever more in a world where someone else is always to blame for everything. A kid that can reach forward a pull up this button can also reach forward and pull a handbrake lever...
Just sayin'.