Help/Advice needed - my HSV won't start

Hi there,

Looking for a bit of guidance...
I have a HSV GTS F2 - manual transmission. It's suffered in the past from battery charging issues which seems to have been resolved when I bought a replacement BCM sometime back. However, it does like to go for a run every 2 weeks or else refuses to start without some help.

Yesterday was about 10 days after the last usage (fairly short trip -maybe 25 mins run time) and it was not happy to start. Put my lithium booster on it and tried a few times and after lots of clicking it decided engage and start (phew!). However, the centre console displayed 'locked' for the entire trip out to homebush. Coming home, same deal.

Went down to the garage this morning and held the start button to get accessory mode and console still locked. Disconnected the battery for 30 secs or so, jumped in and tried to start and just got a bunch of clicks. My booster was flat so I just disconnected the battery and went up to the unit.

Few hours later...
Added the booster....and still clicks. Plus a message to service steering column. Retried a few times, with and without the booster and got nowhere.
According to a bluetooth battery monitor I have connected, it was around 12.2v - it often gets down to mid 11's and still starts unassisted.

The steering column warning has gone away now, but I can't start the car. I'm hearing some clicks from the rear of the car - can't really tell what it is; the fuel is getting low and I had a couple of litres in a can so added that just in case the fuel pump was trying to pull air or something - it made no difference.
I also tried putting the key into the slot under the arm rest in case it wasn't liking the wireless aspect or something.

Annoyingly, my 'new' phone won't play nice with OBDLink. I've added Torque and it can't connect to the ECU - but I suspect that's because the engine isn't running?

I guess there's a couple of questions;
The centre console displayed 'locked' - how will I get that cleared?
Is that centre console lock related to my inability to get the car to start, or will they be isolated systems?
Is there some fuse(s) I could try pulling to reset the computers?
What can/should I do to try and narrow down the issue, or should I just get the thing towed to the service department?

I have had similar issues but I still think its battery power related that you have now. Not sure about the "locked" but certainly if you disconnect battery the column warning normal and also it wont start if you have the steering wheel turned hard to one direction....
Do you have a multimeter to check battery voltage?
I suggest that you have a trickle charger on the battery... I have this for mine when in covid lockdown...

Do some voltage checks on your battery and also when trying to crank..

J

battery... I reckon

those çlick's you are hearing are relays... says to me little or unreliable power
is what is in your boot

ok.
I had a 'spare' battery which I topped up overnight [have a history of charging issues - long story short Holden claimed my replacement batter was dead so ended up with a spare when it was proven to be fine; issue was BCM which I got replaced]

So anyway - I just had the joy of swapping the battery....if only the leads were just a little longer so I didn't need to remove the other battery. Same deal....clicks and clicks and makes no attempt to engage the starter.
I've brought the AC Delco upstairs to charge that up in any case.

So ruled out the battery I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SV300

also it wont start if you have the steering wheel turned hard to one direction...

J

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Wheels are pretty well dead straight as the garage is quite narrow. But.....might there be a sensor being a numpty that I can pull/re-seat?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SV300

I suggest that you have a trickle charger on the battery... I have this for mine when in covid lockdown...

J

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yes....been trying to get power to the garage for over a decade now. Body corp won't let me run a cable externally (fair enough) but can't get me in touch with the garage next door (associated unit it rented) to get permission to poke a conduit through, attached to the roof

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SV300

Do you have a multimeter to check battery voltage?
Do some voltage checks on your battery and also when trying to crank..

J

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After all the issues I was having and trying to prove it was a computer issue (I would get 'battery saver enabled' on my trips between Melbourne and Sydney) I got bluetooth voltage meter

This is from Saturday - evidently 9v isn't gonna cut the mustard which is why I needed the booster
https://i.imgur.com/JaGLNUy.jpg

Sunday - showing the gaps
https://i.imgur.com/4elaaaw.jpg

Month back when I was a day or late getting down there to start up
https://i.imgur.com/jfRSGZY.jpg

It has cranking voltage too but it's gone blank - presumably because it's been unplugged and there's been no cranks (not getting that far)

ok so have you been able to measure the battery voltage on the car and also when attempting to crank?

there is likely a starting relay that may be faulty and if you look at the manual it will show this and see if it is the same as another and swap for testing and try to start car...

Over my many years dealing with cars I've had issues with supposedly "good" batteries which weren't really good..... :bawl:

A couple of years ago I bought one of the testers shown in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi8sUE9XCgA and it's been great. I had to import from USA but local places have them now. Not a short video but well worth the watch!

I'd say it's probably not battery but at least this would rule that out.

any updates?

Hey all,
sorry I had to prioritise getting a Uni assignment completed and forget the car for a bit :(

Yesterday I had a bit of time so I went to take another look.
I put the 'original' battery back in which had been charged on the mains and made some observations.
when hitting start and getting all the usual dongs, the number of relay clicks is less than normal. After the bongs (steering etc) stop, there is a definite clickety noise from under the rear of the car; definitely not the fusebox as I could stick my head there.

Anyway, my gut feel is fuel something. So I was looking for a fuse/relay for the fuel pump. I didn't find one that was that specific, but I did find one labelled FSCM and when I pulled that, the under car clickety noise stopped. Push fuse in and noise comes back.
https://i.imgur.com/XdM2dgL.jpg


I have no idea whether that noise is 'normal' and gets drowned out but the engine/exhaust or not

I shot a video to hopefully be able to hear the clicking

https://youtu.be/cELaQl01tVw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SV300

ok so have you been able to measure the battery voltage on the car and also when attempting to crank?

there is likely a starting relay that may be faulty and if you look at the manual it will show this and see if it is the same as another and swap for testing and try to start car...

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Probably not the best scale nor most accurate, but....
https://i.imgur.com/g1uv9CO.png

Voltage drops when the button is pressed and the lights and other things get ready to go, and then slowly comes back up as the things shut themselves down - the bottom was 11.92v iirc

Just had NRMA attend and use their booster to rule out the battery.

Their scan tool could only read the ECM which showed nothing - a more advanced tool is needed to check the other computers. Advised that if it was fuel pump issue, the car would still start or attempt to anyway. And since the immobiliser gets shut off and some relays spring the action, issue is probably electronic and may even be a clearable code.

Next step; find a mobile mechanic with an advanced scan tool
and/or; get the car put on a truck to Holden

listened to the noise and definitely not normal...also power yes battery power looks good, but a multimeter would have shown this

so yeah looks that the flat bead is the best bet...unfortunately

sounds like either relay chatter or power shorting.......

"Fuel Pump Control Module" (FPCM). EBay price of about $100-.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

"Fuel Pump Control Module" (FPCM). EBay price of about $100-.

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Sorry - I meant "Fuel System Control Module" (FSCM)

Quick update...

Had a mobile mechanic come out yesterday - checked fuses, relays, battery etc, and checked the codes. Bunch of codes for low voltage as expected. Something in the radio about anti-theft or something along those lines, but clearing it didn't unlock the touch screen. The other interesting code was to do with the steering. I didn't get a photo unfortunately and can't remember the code or exact wording - but it was something like angle speed preventing stop/start activation.

The guy sought help over the phone and tried disconnecting the steering lock sensor but to no avail. The steering is still locked - the wheel in the car is upside down and the front wheel point at a slight angle from where I reverse to the side wall. He concluded that something in the BCM has probably gone wrong. They can reprogram many, but Holden isn't one unfortunately as they don't have the specific tool/software required.

My interpretation is that either the steering lock is failing to disengage and the computer is then aborted start up because you can't drive with a locked steering, or something just before the steering lock disengages is failing the check and causing the abort and so the steering never gets unlocked. I hadn't noticed the steering lock before else I would have mentioned it.

with the steering lock i had similar issue when i had car on stands and working on front end. I had the wheels turned and battery disconnected and no start response until i reset the wheel alignment to the wheels and all ok, its a failsafe.

can you move the wheel or is it locked for movement? its hard to notice these things thru the remote diagnosis but it was one of the first things i mentioned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SV300

with the steering lock i had similar issue when i had car on stands and working on front end. I had the wheels turned and battery disconnected and no start response until i reset the wheel alignment to the wheels and all ok, its a failsafe.

can you move the wheel or is it locked for movement? its hard to notice these things thru the remote diagnosis but it was one of the first things i mentioned.

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I previously understood you to mean turned full lock one way or t'other - which they aren't. My bad if I understood. They're basically half a steering wheel turned to the right - the steering wheel feels locked. I only have one jack and no stands so don't think I have a safe way to elevate the front to be able to try and straighten the wheels - I'll order stands if I need to, but if the steering wheel is locked on the column am I gonna get anywhere?

Not sure the angle of misalignment needed but it locks out the start
Not sure if you need to raise car but I didn't need to and had to turn the wheel to engage

It's not something I normally do so have a try if that's what's happening

It still could be something in the rear??

SM-G991B

I'll go try 'wiggle steering wheel whilst hitting start button' a bit later

Didn't work :(

Got hold of the code.

B2910 ESCL Electromechanical Steering Column Lock Malfunction / Vehicle Speed Too High for Start/Stop switch activation

also in the steering control module;
U0415 Invalid Data received from Electronic brake control module

In Electronic brake control module;
C080003 Device Power 1 circuit voltage below threshold
C0800 Control Module power circuit

try hold the start button for 5 secs

will do. Fairly sure the mobile mechanic held it for 10 secs to get accessories enabled to activate OBD to read the codes - but doesn't hurt to try to confirm

ok but seems a common issue once looking for this description so maybe dont worry about that and just get it looked at

i should say that reading codes and starting are are different as you wouldnt have the foot on the brake or clutch for manuals so it may force a start.....

Quick update

Holden kindly sent one of their mechanics out with a laptop yesterday. The steering column lock module is determined to be at fault - it had an error about incorrect password. They reset it, and then tried a reprogram on it, but it still wouldn't unlock. They believe the lock is stopping the car from starting.

Plan now is: salvage tow to get car out of garage - Holden guy thinks we can get the car out enough to put go jacks under the front. If not, he's prepared to come back and hammer n chisel the steering column lock off so we can steering the car onto a truck.
Car is booked in for next week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by disorganise

Quick update

Holden kindly sent one of their mechanics out with a laptop yesterday. The steering column lock module is determined to be at fault - it had an error about incorrect password. They reset it, and then tried a reprogram on it, but it still wouldn't unlock. They believe the lock is stopping the car from starting.

Plan now is: salvage tow to get car out of garage - Holden guy thinks we can get the car out enough to put go jacks under the front. If not, he's prepared to come back and hammer n chisel the steering column lock off so we can steering the car onto a truck.
Car is booked in for next week.

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Or hire a set of wheel clamp jacks they have their own turntable ideal for your predicament.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by disorganise

Quick update

Holden kindly sent one of their mechanics out with a laptop yesterday. The steering column lock module is determined to be at fault - it had an error about incorrect password. They reset it, and then tried a reprogram on it, but it still wouldn't unlock. They believe the lock is stopping the car from starting.

Plan now is: salvage tow to get car out of garage - Holden guy thinks we can get the car out enough to put go jacks under the front. If not, he's prepared to come back and hammer n chisel the steering column lock off so we can steering the car onto a truck.
Car is booked in for next week.

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Good to hear..... but i wouldnt like someone using hammer and chisel on my GTS......
Hopefully the other options work out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micks

Or hire a set of wheel clamp jacks they have their own turntable ideal for your predicament.

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I think maybe that what the go jacks are by another name?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SV300

Good to hear..... but i wouldnt like someone using hammer and chisel on my GTS......
Hopefully the other options work out

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yeah me either - but if it's that or risk scraping the right hand side of the car down the garage door frame, I'm taking the hammer option. As you say, hopefully the other options work out.

Can't wait for this to be one of the memories you laugh at some years down the track. Stressful as heck in the moment and trying to go with 'it's just a car and it's just money' - but we all know it's not "just a car"

how did you go?

Allrighty. I have my car back :)

NRMA sent a regular salvage unit on Monday despite me stressing the need for go jacks. He seemed to think no problem getting the car out but a flatbed is kerb to kerb so getting to the road might be interesting. I cancelled the job at 3.30pm figuring it was too late in the day as we'd potentially block the drive.

Tuesday - got an MRU unit which is the one with go jacks and tow dolly. Long story short - got the car out and he said he'd take it to the dealer rather than wait for a flatbed.

Friday - When I spoke to the dealership they had some good news - the car had been started Thursday and they were checking things through.

Ultimately, they reckon the four modules on the low can bus were confused. They had to be logically disconnected and re-introduced to the bus. the Steering column lock module also had to be reflashed and re-programmed again.
The sense I got was that quite likely the radio lost sufficient voltage to maybe timeout on the bus and we think there's rolling security codes involved, so it got out of sync (wrong password). That then probably caused issues with the other modules and maybe caused the steering column lock module to also get out of sync which why it couldn't unlock.

Apparently they've only seen it happen once before, so not really very clear on cause. Low voltage probably.

They said they also updated the radio software to the latest version though I have not checked it to be honest.

I'm leaving it connected for now - will get some data on voltage drop over time to see whether the drain is still there (no reason it wouldn't be TBH). Until I can get power into the garage (if ever) I'm gonna just have to go for a run every 2 weeks - or disconnect the battery but not sure I'm game anymore :D

Great news

Quote:

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Originally Posted by disorganise

Allrighty. I have my car back :)

NRMA sent a regular salvage unit on Monday despite me stressing the need for go jacks. He seemed to think no problem getting the car out but a flatbed is kerb to kerb so getting to the road might be interesting. I cancelled the job at 3.30pm figuring it was too late in the day as we'd potentially block the drive.

Tuesday - got an MRU unit which is the one with go jacks and tow dolly. Long story short - got the car out and he said he'd take it to the dealer rather than wait for a flatbed.

Friday - When I spoke to the dealership they had some good news - the car had been started Thursday and they were checking things through.

Ultimately, they reckon the four modules on the low can bus were confused. They had to be logically disconnected and re-introduced to the bus. the Steering column lock module also had to be reflashed and re-programmed again.
The sense I got was that quite likely the radio lost sufficient voltage to maybe timeout on the bus and we think there's rolling security codes involved, so it got out of sync (wrong password). That then probably caused issues with the other modules and maybe caused the steering column lock module to also get out of sync which why it couldn't unlock.

Apparently they've only seen it happen once before, so not really very clear on cause. Low voltage probably.

They said they also updated the radio software to the latest version though I have not checked it to be honest.

I'm leaving it connected for now - will get some data on voltage drop over time to see whether the drain is still there (no reason it wouldn't be TBH). Until I can get power into the garage (if ever) I'm gonna just have to go for a run every 2 weeks - or disconnect the battery but not sure I'm game anymore :D

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Good to hear some DH didn't have to:

Quote:

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hammer and chisel

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Your lock off aye! :spew:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micks

Good to hear some DH didn't have to: Your lock off aye! :spew:

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too right!

Man I forgot how good the thing sounds :D