Continuous Fuel Pump Failures in HSV E3 GTS 2011

[Xjas]

Hi Xjas, after the car completely dies and wont start. I get it towed and my mechanic does a fuel pressure test and confirms the pump is totally dead. He then removes it and tests it with external power and confirms its done.

Ive had a new separate power circuit installed to bypass factory circuit which Quicktrak originally was plummed into and still have had a failure since.

I will ask the guys to check the fuel lines as weve exhausted all other obvious areas. Will probably also ask the team at Castle Hill Performance to check the tune and see whether there is any possibility of it being related, although not sure how it could be.

Is the FPCM a separate external module to the fuel pump or is it built in to it? I am using the factory Holden fuel pump for my car.

Not sure where the FPCM is to be honest, I am far from a Commodore fuel system expert, I do have a fair bit of experience with failure analysis and that where my suggestions come from.
When you say the pump is completely dead does that mean it wont spin at all or it spins when power is applied but wont pump fuel? both will result in no fuel pressure to start the car but they would have very different root causes.
Since the pump itself doesnt appear to be the root cause of the issue an aftermarket pump wont really cure the problem, it may mask it though depending on a number of factors.

[crackelaktor]

Not sure where the FPCM is to be honest, I am far from a Commodore fuel system expert, I do have a fair bit of experience with failure analysis and that where my suggestions come from.
When you say the pump is completely dead does that mean it wont spin at all or it spins when power is applied but wont pump fuel? both will result in no fuel pressure to start the car but they would have very different root causes.
Since the pump itself doesnt appear to be the root cause of the issue an aftermarket pump wont really cure the problem, it may mask it though depending on a number of factors.

My mechanic advised the FPCM is within the factory fuel pump module and when the pump module is removed from the tank, it wont spin up at all.

I agree root cause is most likely external to the pump module itself but it doesnt appear to be:

* The fuel line itself
* The factory power circuit and relay as it was bypassed straight to the battery with a new fuse and relay
* The fuel i am using
* The amount of fuel left in the tank as i keep it above 1/4
* The mafless tune as VEs dont have any tunability of the fuel pump itself

Not sure what else it could be at this stage.

Have a look at the last 7 failures and how long each of my fuel pumps lasted:

·***1st*Factory fitted pump lasted exactly 1Y, 8M, 14D from when the car was first purchased brand new
·***2nd*Factory fitted pump lasted exactly 3Y, 6M, 22D
·***3rd*Ultratune fitted genuine factory pump lasted 7M, 28D
·***4th*Ultratune fitted genuine factory pump lasted 4M, 14D
·***5th*Ultratune fitted non genuine pump for SS lasted approx. 4 weeks before being replaced due to ongoing issues with starting vehicle
·***6th*Ultratune fitted genuine factory pump lasted 4M, 30D
·***7th*Ultratune fitted genuine factory pump lasted 3M, 15D
*
The last 4 fuel pumps lasted 4 months or less so not long at all.

Not sure how such a simple system can be impacted by anything other than an ongoing electrical issue, which has been going on for such a long time, and not impacting anything else in the vehicle.

Will wait to see what Holden/HSV have to say and what they recommend but the last few failures have highlighted that spare parts struggle to supply replacement pumps to customers as there seem to be more failured than we are aware of. I may just be an extreme case of a very common problem that hasnt been made public yet.

[Micks]

Only a stab in the dark, you on original battery? Has the charging system been checked? Have all the main earths been properly checked with an ohmeter?

[crackelaktor]

Only a stab in the dark, you on original battery? Has the charging system been checked? Have all the main earths been properly checked with an ohmeter?

Hi Micks. Funny you ask that. I was speaking with an experienced tuner through a mate who is a rally driver, and the tuner knowing my history suggested a couple of things:

1. Check all the main earths with the ohmeter and make sure earth is returning less than 0.05v (preferably less than 0.01v). I'm pretty sure UltraTune did this already when they rewired the fuel pump directly to the battery on a new circuit and relay. I think he re-earthed it as well but will confirm. Pump failed since then as well.

2. Consider replacing the entire fuel tank as on my 5th fuel pump replacement, they pulled the entire fuel module apart and found metal flakes in it. They cleaned out the tank at that time as well. But I've been through 2 more pumps since then.

The tuner confirmed the Mafless Tune would have no impact at all on the issues I'm experiencing.

He also explained that the fuel tanks have 2 cells and a siphon in between them. He said that if the siphon is not working properly (ie, is clogged or malfunctioned), it is possible that even when the tank is 1/4 full, the car could experience fuel surge and stress the fuel pump out, thus shortening its life. He had a customer with a ford or holden a few years back that was on his 3rd or 4th pump. They found metal flakes in the tank and rather than cleaning it, they replaced it with another tank and the fuel pumps stopped failing.

When I spoke with UltraTune, I asked them to price an entire tank replacement with new fuel pump and will await to hear back tomorrow on that. He did tell me that when they cleaned out the tank a couple of failures ago (#5), they had pretty good access to both sides of the cells, but couldn't say for certain that the tank didn't have some residue left in it. But he is going to check my tank tomorrow and check the siphon to see if there are any potential issues there.

I may consider replacing the entire tank (even though logically I cannot see why that would help). I have no other options at this stage.

[amckiwi]

LPG conversion?

[crackelaktor]

LPG conversion?

Not considering it at this stage. Car is going to Holden today and we'll see what they have to say. Will keep you all posted.

[crackelaktor]

Update. After my 7th consecutive fuel pump failure in my E3 GTS, I had the car towed to holden a week ago and asked them to find the root cause of my failing fuel pumps. They put a new fuel module/pump and wiring harness in the car and i picked up the car this past wednesday. On Friday (2 days later) the 8th pump in the car tapped out and the car was towed back to Holden this afternoon today. As much as i loved my E3 GTS with 99,000kms on the clock, and 8 blown fuel pumps (6 in the last 14 months) i decided to trade the undrivable car for a brand new VXR Commodore, which obviously was traded in for a lot less than i expected to sell it privately (if it had been working), but i got a cracking deal on the VXR which is not really a Commodore but hopefully will be much more reliable than what i had.

I gave Holden full disclosure of the repeating issue and history and they gave me back approx 12k less than what i would have expected to sell it privately, and i pickup my new car in less than a week. I had already spent $2,800 in the last 14 months and expected it to cost me a lot more in labour whilst Holden investigated the issue.

They now have to find the root cause of the problem before selling the car as a used car, but if they do fix it, they will make a decent margin on the car.

[Micks]

I'd think there would be heaps of late model VE's & good tanks at the wreckers, might be worth a shot?

[crackelaktor]

I'd think there would be heaps of late model VE's & good tanks at the wreckers, might be worth a shot?

Car is now Holdens property and issue to resolve. Has cost me a lot and as long as they find the cause of the issues, they will make their margin on it and hopefully give it a reliable new life somewhere else.

[Xjas]

Shame you decided to trade it but I don't blame you, I would probably have done the same in your position.

[Peter B - CV8]

Shame you decided to trade it but I don't blame you, I would probably have done the same in your position.

Me too. Constant & unresolved failures like this would leave you with little other option.

[Wonky]

Sad that it came to that.........

[amckiwi]

If it is on sold at auction is there any warranty?

[crackelaktor]

Not sure on the specifics but Holden must provide a minimum of 3 months warranty if they sell it off their used var yard but if they take it to a wholesaler in a working state, not sure how that works with warranty. Holden knowing the full history would be foolish to offload it unless they have identifed root cause as it damages their brand.

If it is on sold at auction is there any warranty?

[Micks]

Not sure on the specifics but Holden must provide a minimum of 3 months warranty if they sell it off their used var yard but if they take it to a wholesaler in a working state, not sure how that works with warranty. Holden knowing the full history would be foolish to offload it unless they have identifed root cause as it damages their brand.

Most peeps wouldn't touch it I guess! I probably would at the right price. Will you be putting up the vehicles vin so that peeps can make an informed choice if they decide to buy it?