LS3: Rattling sound when stone cold

[skip100]

MY17 Caprice (LS3) stock, 113,000km
Driven gently (Hire Car)
First thing in the morning, there is a rattling sound, and it goes away after about 30 seconds. I'm told this could be lifter bleed, and it shouldn't happen.
IF it is due to lifter bleed, is there any possibility it could just be normal for this engine?

Thanks in advance.

[Micks]

What visc. oil are you running & how often is it changed? Yours being a MY17 also a possibility of having the faulty rocker issue https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...rouble-110179/ that was a known recall. Was yours done?

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I use the recommended GM Dexos 1 (5W30) and change it every 10,000km. I was never contacted about the faulty rockers, so assume mine isn't in the affected range. Thanks.

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I've taken it to a workshop. In the meantime, here's a recording. It's particularly noticeable at about 40 seconds in: http://www.filedropper.com/coldstartrattle

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It needs new lifters.

[Micks]

It needs new lifters.

Warranty?....

[skip100]

Warranty?....

It's technically out of warranty, but not by much. I don't like dealerships, so it's with a performance house - they'll probably do it better and quicker. However, I will send the bill to Holden and see if they'll make a contribution. (unlikely, because I didn't even demonstrate the symptom to them first)
Crossing my fingers the camshaft isn't damaged - I don't think so, because they would have informed me by now I think.

I'm a bit confused though - according to Wikipedia, rattle at startup isn't necessarily abnormal! I'm going to be REALLY peeved if the rattle is still there after the lifter swap:

Frequently, the valvetrain will rattle loudly on startup due to oil draining from the lifters when the vehicle is parked. This is not considered a significant issue provided the noise disappears within a couple of minutes; typically it usually lasts only a second or two. A rattle that does not go away can indicate a blocked oil feed, or that one or more of the lifters has collapsed due to wear and is no longer opening its valve fully. The affected lifter should be replaced in the latter situation.

[whitels1ss]

Would be a good time to do a camshaft upgrade......


there are even a few camshafts on the market these days that would even give you performance improvements keeping stock idle, good fuel economy & manners if you want.

[BLACKVE]

It's technically out of warranty, but not by much. I don't like dealerships, so it's with a performance house - they'll probably do it better and quicker. However, I will send the bill to Holden and see if they'll make a contribution. (unlikely, because I didn't even demonstrate the symptom to them first)
Crossing my fingers the camshaft isn't damaged - I don't think so, because they would have informed me by now I think.

I'm a bit confused though - according to Wikipedia, rattle at startup isn't necessarily abnormal! I'm going to be REALLY peeved if the rattle is still there after the lifter swap:

yeh generally lifter noise is rattle at startup(but not a long term issue) or a constant noise which is change out time sort of chrip noise

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yeh generally lifter noise is rattle at startup(but not a long term issue) or a constant noise which is change out time sort of chrip noise

So, you personally agree with the Wiki quote - rattle that goes away under about 2 minutes isn't necessarily a problem?

Re the cam upgrade - I KNEW it was only a matter of time before someone suggested this. NO THANKYOU

[amckiwi]

This is the route I am going with my L98

It is a lot of work / cost to get to them without doing upgrades

I would consider a new oil pump at the same time and upgraded bolts and timing chain... All things I am doing and mine is at 46,000 ks only

Would be a good time to do a camshaft upgrade......


there are even a few camshafts on the market these days that would even give you performance improvements keeping stock idle, good fuel economy & manners if you want.

[whitels1ss]

Re the cam upgrade - I KNEW it was only a matter of time before someone suggested this. NO THANKYOU

I have seen cams that you can't even pick from stock (talking absolute smooth idle) until you drive the car & feel how much extra power it has.

Hey it's your car, it's your decision but you could turn it around into a great bonus.


BTW..... I hope your stock camshaft is not damaged by the faulty lifters.

[Micks]

I don't think an 113K LS3 will need an oil pump, if the cam is faarked there are many shops with these sitting on their shelves with delivery K's on them only.
Very surprised though not impossible for your LS7 lifters to be shagged already especially being a HC as the slammer would rarely be cold

[skip100]

I don't think an 113K LS3 will need an oil pump, if the cam is faarked there are many shops with these sitting on their shelves with delivery K's on them only.
Very surprised though not impossible for your LS7 lifters to be shagged already especially being a HC as the slammer would rarely be cold

They said oil pressure is good, so they aren't replacing or upgrading the oil pump. Re the lifters, they found that one roller had come off it's pin. Also, there are now revised lifters - my engine had the old, non-revised ones. Btw, this article recommends replacing the lifters every 100,000km:
https://www.oztrack.com.au/2013-09-2...-3-l98-l76-l77 Whether this still applies for the revised lifters I'm not sure, assuming their advice is/was sound.

Cam is ok, so that's one more reason not to upgrade the cam - all that extra labour, for something I most certainly don't need.

[whitels1ss]

Sounds like you have it well under control & truly underway.

All the best with it.