I lost a little respect for HWP officers tonight.

[Febs]

Hi guys.

I've always respected police, never had a bad word to say about them personally...and whenever I've seen them give mates a fine, it's been justified. But this morning, I'm angry.

My dad's a great bloke. Tonight he picked up my girlfriend and myself from the city (after going out for Boxing Day drinks) at 2am. He does this all the time.

So we're on the way home (in mum's bog stock Corolla), about 3km from home travelling at 80km/h in an 80 zone, when dad says "Got your seatbelts on guys?"

"Yeah, but why?"

"That police car we passed just chucked a u-turn and put it's lights on."

So dad gets out, and the police officers (HWP from Liverpool), breathalise him, then say they've clocked him on radar doing 100km/h in an 80 zone. Now my dad's not one to speed (ESPECIALLY during double demerits), but I KNOW he was doing the speed limit on this stretch of road, because I was watching the speedo (which is very accurate), and saw 80km/h. He admitted to them that he may have hit 85km/h at one point, but in no way was he doing 100km/h.

They took his licence, sat in the car for 10 minutes then came out with a fine for 20km/h over - $225 and 6 demerit points (being DD's).

I asked how long they locked on, and the guy said "In accordance with the regulations. Do you have the guidelines?" To which I replied "Yes, at home." He then said it was over 3 seconds, and all was legitimate.

Now if dad really was doing 100, he'd accept it. He's that kind of guy. The thing is - he wasn't speeding.

He's going to take this one to court, but reading the radar handbook I can't find much that helps him. The weather was fine, there were no other cars around, and they had enough time (3 seconds) to get a lock.

Any ideas or tips from people in similar situations? All I can think of is to question the accuracy of the equipment...but I'm not sure how far that'd get him...

Cheers,
- Febs.

[slickholden]

One thing i could be this, My sister in my car was booked doing 65 in a 60-zone when doing under 60.
My mums VB got treated once to 15" VT interceptor rims, And i was told that would put the speddo out really bad but i never got it checked and once i passed a speed camera doing 85kp/h in a 70 zone i waited 4 years for the fine and nothing still, I gave up waiting

But with them mobile speeds cameras i don't understand how they can pick your speed going the other way moving? it's like how many chips are in the bag ****ed if anyone knows. Don't pay and fight it they must have some questions over the reliability of them cameras i'm sure there will be other will similar problems.

[SV8VY]

Depending on how badly he wants to keep his points it will most probably be lengthy and costly in court.
To win you definitely need a good lawyer that knows the road rules and or loopholes (if there is any).
The Police will do their best to screw you and money is no object.
I had a problem a couple of years ago and was booked for 3 offences and took me almost a year in court.
Chris Kalpage was the lawyer I used (as advertised in the motor magazines) and he definitely knows what he is doing.
I suggest you have a chat to someone first and see where you stand.
The police must show there has been regular maintenance on the radar unit for one.
If your dad hasn't had any recent traffic offences or has a good traffic record (and they will go back to when he got his licence) he can file for a section 10a and get off with a small fine and a warning with no points taken.
Good luck.

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

You know what they should really do. If an officer has a speeding fine contested then he/she should put up their own money to defend their case rather then the government. I'm sure they would think twice when they pull someone over if they had to do that!
And just to be fair if the defendent loses then they have to pay the officers court costs.

[COSMOS]

why dont you PM me - I have some questions I need to ask you about your dad's driving history and the car....

[mavss]

It may pay to go back to the site and take some piccies of the area to see if there are any reflective surfaces (sign posts etc) that may throw the reading out.

[Covert]

If your dad hasn't had any recent traffic offences or has a good traffic record (and they will go back to when he got his licence) he can file for a section 10a and get off with a small fine and a warning with no points taken.
Good luck.

A s10 dismissal gets you off the fine but the RTA still apply the demerit points.

[Waughy]

Was the radar gun in calibration, or was the copper runningout of time to make his quota? Don't say they don't have one, it's like any job, if you aren't doing your bit...... If your Dad's record has been clean for 10 years he can ring the collections mob in Maitland near Newcastle, they'll check and if clean you're off, but have to be very careful after that. Actually I'm not sure about the points, but the fine is let off, would have to check up on that.
But if you are a witness to the fact thespeedo didn't hit 100 I'm not sure if that will help too much, hope it turns out well for your Dad. I feel the same way you do about the police it's just a shame there's a few out there who let it go to thier heads that give the whole a bad image.

[lowriding]

Sounds like a stuffed situation febs , sorry to hear it . Was there any cars around you at the time ?

[marcu5]

Hey,
Don’t quote me as a professional here but here’s a few things to consider.
The copa had 100 sitting on the radar from someone else who got away. He needed to hit the quota (Oh yes they do have them ) and found your dad as a target. (This you will find extremely hard to prove even under oath the cop will no doubt lie to cover his arse and this would be almost impossible to prove in court)
Now with the highway, is there a gap between the lanes? Islands? Grass? Medium Strips? If so the angles that would need to be taken into account from the gap between his vehicle and yours would be impossible for a cop to work out on the fly. It would drastically impair the radar reading also. (Photos)
Although the cop might know his radar bullshit, has he been trained in it? Write a letter and ask for proof of some sort. (A superintendent should supply this)
Has the equipment been serviced and maintained according to procedures. Once again ask for proof. (There should be a radar sheet from some third party that you can get)
The vehicle that they are in, what sort of tires are on it? Has their car computer been recalibrated to suit the speed adjustment of their tires? (I’m not sure what radar they were using but this could affect the reading.)
Although he may of locked onto you for 3seconds, did he do the six or so other checks? (Mite be just QLD) (eg: A visual look at your car and realize that "O shit he’s going more then 80clicks!)
All of the above (plus there is more) is what I have done through experience, I have gone for interviews, read their manuals, written a number of letters but have not yet gone to court to prove my innocence. So far I am considered guilty but there is a class action law suit coming up soon regarding the inaccuracies of the Dakota geneses 2 select radar in QLD because I was done unfairly (it read me 2km more out which was the difference between loosing my license and 200$ fine) and so have a lot of other people up here. (Spread the word as they are keeping this under the wraps!!)
I hope this helps ey, you might want to get a lawyer that specializes in radar also that can/is/get an expert witness on radar. Although it might cost around the $600 mark you might just find you will come away with a win and you wont have to pay your fee's (or you will get reimbursed - then go to the media and spread the word)

In reading this, some of you might think I am against the use of radar and cops ect.. I’m not but I am against the use of them not doing their job properly and not supplying good justification for at least half the shit they do. I work in government also and have to provide justification for what I do yet they are law enforcement and according to them they can fall through loop holes just for them here and there. It shits me right off, if the job cant be done properly don’t fugging do it at all as far as I’m concerned - let someone else do it.

[Brayden's dad]

Febs,

First of all, I believe your case has some merit. I can't say I believe you because I don't know you. I don't think you were looking at the speedo when the copper pinged him because, as you said, you didn't know the copper was there. Having said that, I do believe you may have looked at it after you found out that a police car had just passed you & that, even if you didn't, you would have noticed a change in speed from (allegedly) 100 down to 80.

Also, I don't believe you would spend all that time writing that post on a public forum if you didn't believe in what you were writing.

A couple of months ago, I received a letter in the mail telling me I'd been caught doing 75 in a 60 zone by a speed camera. The fine was $75 plus 3 demerit points. I was all set to pay the fine when it was suggested to me (by a police officer no less) that I should write a letter given my good driving record.

Basically, I said that I had no recollection of speeding on that particular day but if the camera said I did then I have no defence. I went on to say that I drive every day & that we are all human & prone to mistakes. If I had been speeding, then it would have been an honest mistake. I asked for leniency given my good driving record. I continued that if they did not deem my case worthy of leniency, then I would pay the fine. They let me off with a warning.

Why did I write that? Try a letter first, mate, stating your case. Can't hurt especially if you believe you are in the right. Just tell the truth & don't embellish anything.

Troy.

[surfmaster59]

Forget the guff about Qld radar is this and quota's are that and did the cop polish his boots before he checked the oil in the radar, deal with the facts and NSW policies and legislation - if you got a ticket in NSW it was most probably recorded on in-car video. Ring the HWP office the officer came from and ask to see the video - that should give you an answer as to what did actually happen.

[The PM]

Where were you in the car? Unless you are in the drivers seat directly behind the speedo, it is impossible to accurately see what the needle on the speedo is on. I beleive the term is paralax error?

[HRT 8]

Hey,
Don’t quote me as a professional here but here’s a few things to consider.
The copa had 100 sitting on the radar from someone else who got away. He needed to hit the quota (Oh yes they do have them ) and found your dad as a target. (This you will find extremely hard to prove even under oath the cop will no doubt lie to cover his arse and this would be almost impossible to prove in court)
Now with the highway, is there a gap between the lanes? Islands? Grass? Medium Strips? If so the angles that would need to be taken into account from the gap between his vehicle and yours would be impossible for a cop to work out on the fly. It would drastically impair the radar reading also. (Photos)
Although the cop might know his radar bullshit, has he been trained in it? Write a letter and ask for proof of some sort. (A superintendent should supply this)
Has the equipment been serviced and maintained according to procedures. Once again ask for proof. (There should be a radar sheet from some third party that you can get)
The vehicle that they are in, what sort of tires are on it? Has their car computer been recalibrated to suit the speed adjustment of their tires? (I’m not sure what radar they were using but this could affect the reading.)
Although he may of locked onto you for 3seconds, did he do the six or so other checks? (Mite be just QLD) (eg: A visual look at your car and realize that "O shit he’s going more then 80clicks!)
All of the above (plus there is more) is what I have done through experience, I have gone for interviews, read their manuals, written a number of letters but have not yet gone to court to prove my innocence. So far I am considered guilty but there is a class action law suit coming up soon regarding the inaccuracies of the Dakota geneses 2 select radar in QLD because I was done unfairly (it read me 2km more out which was the difference between loosing my license and 200$ fine) and so have a lot of other people up here. (Spread the word as they are keeping this under the wraps!!)
I hope this helps ey, you might want to get a lawyer that specializes in radar also that can/is/get an expert witness on radar. Although it might cost around the $600 mark you might just find you will come away with a win and you wont have to pay your fee's (or you will get reimbursed - then go to the media and spread the word)

In reading this, some of you might think I am against the use of radar and cops ect.. I’m not but I am against the use of them not doing their job properly and not supplying good justification for at least half the shit they do. I work in government also and have to provide justification for what I do yet they are law enforcement and according to them they can fall through loop holes just for them here and there. It shits me right off, if the job cant be done properly don’t fugging do it at all as far as I’m concerned - let someone else do it.

Please make sure the advice your giving someone. Advice which could see them in court, is factual. Alot of what has been posted above is not only misleading, but incorrect.
Just remember that there are many members here that are very experienced in these types of matters.
As a side note, I hope everybody had a safe Xmas and they have an even safer New Year period.

[chris_vysv8]

If anyone is interested, this Australian website www.speedingisbullshit.com has lots of factual information, media reports and links.

Chris