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Thread: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

  1. #61
    Wonky's Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    So, the 0w40 may give a little more power due to being thinner but for someone planning to keep their car for a fair while it's not worth sacrificing the extra protection of the 10w60? Would that be a fair summation?

  2. #62
    Alex(AUS)'s Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonky View Post
    So, the 0w40 may give a little more power due to being thinner but for someone planning to keep their car for a fair while it's not worth sacrificing the extra protection of the 10w60? Would that be a fair summation?
    There is kind of a contradiction for sure ... I mean you would make more power as a result of less friction not more ... perhaps the 60 produces less friction but is heaver to move around????

    Alex

  3. #63
    Blown 454 AWD's Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex(AUS) View Post
    There is kind of a contradiction for sure ... I mean you would make more power as a result of less friction not more ... perhaps the 60 produces less friction but is heaver to move around????

    Alex

    Quite correct Alex.

    Its called fluid friction.

    The little sludge pumps I've run at Northead Sewage Treatment Station Manly for 16 years (Armatures in the motors weigh 40 tons, motor and pump is 3 stories high, the top pumps (4 out of 6 with another 4 smaller ones in the lane cove storage tunnel) pump 4000 litres per second up a 1,3 metre pipe with a 25 meter head) the top bearings ran a SAE 20 hydraulic oil (The pump manufactures book says to!! * WRONG * )

    Being a tapered roller bearing they have "scrub" on the end of the rollers the engineering book says they must have an E P Gear Oil.

    So we changed them to a Synthetic 75w90 E P Gear Oil (same thickness as a SAE 30 hydraulic oil) and doubled the life of the bearings (its 6 figures to pull one of these out so significant savings)

    We then when to a SAE 90 (more film strength, less metal tough again) so less wear again. (checking with Filtergram we can tell with 3 months)

    So to run the gauntlet completely (as Mainlube does) and find how much is "too far", we tried a SAE 140 E P Gear Oil and the (water cooled) bearings built 7C extra temp. This was because of fluid friction (which doesn't cause wear) but can produce slight drag and bring the temp up by trying to shear the lubricant.

    So we went back to the SAE 90 for the best protection with out building temps and without upsetting the lubricant.

    Component designers don't get this "real-time"type of R & D Mainlube gets in the field, theirs is all text book stuff, the book isn't always right when it's put into practice.

    We aren't going to those extremes here however, this explains a little about fluid friction. The 0W40 will have less fluid friction however, it will allow more touch (which is (machining metal) friction caused by less film strength) hence more wear. I would rather loose a little with fluid friction than try and gain a little with a lighter viscosity but receive more wear.

    Of course this changes dramatically when you double the kW as you have modified the power without modifying the protection. Without viscosity increase with more power, wear is dramatically increased. The bearing surfaces are a certain size to cope with the power the engine makes. The bigger the power, the bigger the engine to take the load (usually unless us hoons ring another 50 kW (upwards) out of it)

    Many people who use our 10w60 have said to me the felt more power (and they changed from a lighter viscosity) so quality of oil and additive technology can compensate allot for this "fluid friction" and still receive the best protection.

    Its that old story, you get what you pay for.


    10w60 has more film strength therefore less wear over a 0w40, if you loose a couple of kW's, that's the small trade off for machinery longevity.

    Hope that explains this area a little


    Cheers

    Steve






    A manufactures job is to supply you with a component and guide you how to
    service it so lasts long enough for you to be happy with the money you spent.

    Mainlube's job is to try and make that component last twice as long or in most cases, longer.


    Mainlube Superior Maintenance Lubricants Pty Ltd
    Mainlube 175 Synthetic Race Oil SAE 10w60 (engine)
    Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w90 (gearbox)
    Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w140 (diff)

    www.Mainlube.com.au

  4. #64
    Alex(AUS)'s Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by 450 kW Adventra View Post
    Quite correct Alex.

    Its called fluid friction.

    The little sludge pumps I've run at Northead Sewage Treatment Station Manly for 16 years (Armatures in the motors weigh 40 tons, motor and pump is 3 stories high, the top pumps (4 out of 6 with another 4 smaller ones in the lane cove storage tunnel) pump 4000 litres per second up a 1,3 metre pipe with a 25 meter head) the top bearings ran a SAE 20 hydraulic oil (The pump manufactures book says to!! * WRONG * )

    Being a tapered roller bearing they have "scrub" on the end of the rollers the engineering book says they must have an E P Gear Oil.

    So we changed them to a Synthetic 75w90 E P Gear Oil (same thickness as a SAE 30 hydraulic oil) and doubled the life of the bearings (its 6 figures to pull one of these out so significant savings)

    We then when to a SAE 90 (more film strength, less metal tough again) so less wear again. (checking with Filtergram we can tell with 3 months)

    So to run the gauntlet completely (as Mainlube does) and find how much is "too far", we tried a SAE 140 E P Gear Oil and the (water cooled) bearings built 7C extra temp. This was because of fluid friction (which doesn't cause wear) but can produce slight drag and bring the temp up by trying to shear the lubricant.

    So we went back to the SAE 90 for the best protection with out building temps and without upsetting the lubricant.

    Component designers don't get this "real-time"type of R & D Mainlube gets in the field, theirs is all text book stuff, the book isn't always right when it's put into practice.

    We aren't going to those extremes here however, this explains a little about fluid friction. The 0W40 will have less fluid friction however, it will allow more touch (which is (machining metal) friction caused by less film strength) hence more wear. I would rather loose a little with fluid friction than try and gain a little with a lighter viscosity but receive more wear.

    Of course this changes dramatically when you double the kW as you have modified the power without modifying the protection. Without viscosity increase with more power, wear is dramatically increased. The bearing surfaces are a certain size to cope with the power the engine makes. The bigger the power, the bigger the engine to take the load (usually unless us hoons ring another 50 kW (upwards) out of it)

    Many people who use our 10w60 have said to me the felt more power (and they changed from a lighter viscosity) so quality of oil and additive technology can compensate allot for this "fluid friction" and still receive the best protection.

    Its that old story, you get what you pay for.


    10w60 has more film strength therefore less wear over a 0w40, if you loose a couple of kW's, that's the small trade off for machinery longevity.

    Hope that explains this area a little


    Cheers

    Steve






    A manufactures job is to supply you with a component and guide you how to
    service it so lasts long enough for you to be happy with the money you spent.

    Mainlube's job is to try and make that component last twice as long or in most cases, longer.


    Mainlube Superior Maintenance Lubricants Pty Ltd
    Mainlube 175 Synthetic Race Oil SAE 10w60 (engine)
    Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w90 (gearbox)
    Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w140 (diff)

    www.Mainlube.com.au
    Thank you for taking the time to explain that Steve.

    Alex

  5. #65
    Wonky's Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex(AUS) View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to explain that Steve.

    Alex
    + 1! Looks like it's 10w60 for me after all! Thanks Steve!

    Next question - is the 3,000km inspection too early to change to a full synthetic like Edge 10w/60? Should I leave the factory "run-in" oil in for another few thousand kms or change it now to a good non-synthetic? If good non-synthetic what would you recommend that is not prohibitively expensive?
    Last edited by Wonky; 14-05-2009 at 02:29 AM.

  6. #66
    boyley's Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonky View Post
    + 1! Looks like it's 10w60 for me after all! Thanks Steve!

    Next question - is the 3,000km inspection too early to change to a full synthetic like Edge 10w/60? Should I leave the factory "run-in" oil in for another few thousand kms or change it now to a good non-synthetic? If good non-synthetic what would you recommend that is not prohibitively expensive?
    Wonky I changed to 10w-60 at 7500km's which as you know is twice the recommended service interval. I would nt think doing it at 3000k's would make much difference though.

  7. #67
    Blown 454 AWD's Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonky View Post
    + 1! Looks like it's 10w60 for me after all! Thanks Steve!

    Next question - is the 3,000km inspection too early to change to a full synthetic like Edge 10w/60? Should I leave the factory "run-in" oil in for another few thousand kms or change it now to a good non-synthetic? If good non-synthetic what would you recommend that is not prohibitively expensive?
    If it was going to glaze the bore and burn oil it would've done this way before 1000 klms.

    If you feel she's "loose enough" at 3000 klms (as from here on in she's actually wearing out) fell free to change.

    My new engine is about to be tuned in the next few weeks, this will be done on the dyno with mineral oil in it, it will be pulled on pretty hard, biggest attention is NOT let her get hot (don't want to see 100C) after the dyno runs (probably few of them) flush, new filter and in with the 10w60.

    As for as I'm concerned the dyno runs will determine the major amount of the "bed in" process, the rest is up to me NOT to pussy her too much. (which could be fukin scary)

    The first 3000 klms you should keep the boot into here a fair bit, not thrashing, not labouring, but under load, varying the revs and not letting things get too hot.

    (and this thread is about engine oil, not my motor, you will have to wait for the debut, so don't ask)


    Cheers

    Steve




    A manufactures job is to supply you with a component and guide you how to
    service it so lasts long enough for you to be happy with the money you spent.

    Mainlube's job is to try and make that component last twice as long or in most cases, longer.


    Mainlube Superior Maintenance Lubricants Pty Ltd
    Mainlube 175 Synthetic Race Oil SAE 10w60 (engine)
    Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w90 (gearbox)
    Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w140 (diff)

    www.Mainlube.com.au
    Last edited by Blown 454 AWD; 14-05-2009 at 08:16 AM.

  8. #68
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Hi LS1'ers

    Just a question.
    My VE SS is due for a 45'000 service.
    My local Dealer uses Shell Heilix, not sure what blend or thickness.
    Is this oil Good to keep using or should i get myself some Castrol Edge Sport 10/60.
    I do most of my driving in city so stop/start for 30min to work and 30min home.
    As i have read the Castrol Edge is some good stuff.
    Any Recommendations??

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    KCB50L is offline Forum Contributor Last Online: 17-11-2018 @ 03:12 PM
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    I have stopped using the thicker oils in my LS1, have gone to using castrol edge 5w30 (have used this for the last 4 services now) did a complete system flush with nulon and 5w30 (you should have seen the black shit come out of the engine) engine is purring like a kitten, no noise at all (apart from the normal bit of piston slap on cold start-up, but that's gone within a minute) and seems to run smoother.

  10. #70
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    I run a diesel/petrol based oil in my ve, my dad runs it in his gas v8 VU it obviously has alot of additives but i noticed straight away the car idles much smoother.

    Oil pressure is showing just below the 3 on the electric guage so almost 30psi at idle (800rpm).
    It's happened before, It will all happen again.

  11. #71
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    In my VE i use

    Penrite HPR 10 in winter 10w50
    Penrite HPR 30 in summer 20w60 - thicker in the summer for the extra protection due to higher heat levels

    change oil every 7000-8000km
    Seeing through the bullshit that you spin...

  12. #72
    popeye3dr is offline Occasional Contributor to the Forums Last Online: 27-06-2014 @ 07:10 AM
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Well i'm having my ute serviced on monday so bought the Castrol 10w60 and going to give that a go, if i dont like it i'm going to drop it and go back to the Royal Purple. Or i might even try the vavoline 10w50 as i always used to like using that oil and never been a fan of the Castrol

  13. #73
    alto is offline Forum Contributor Last Online: 03-02-2018 @ 08:41 PM
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    What are you guys paying per 5L of Castrol Edge Sport 10/60?

  14. #74
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    What are you guys paying per 5L of Castrol Edge Sport 10/60?
    around $40

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre-Cool View Post
    I run a diesel/petrol based oil in my ve, my dad runs it in his gas v8 VU it obviously has alot of additives but i noticed straight away the car idles much smoother.

    Oil pressure is showing just below the 3 on the electric guage so almost 30psi at idle (800rpm).
    Interesting can you advise which brand please TC
    Last edited by boyley; 15-05-2009 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  15. #75
    Wonky's Avatar
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    Re: VE SS-V GEN4 Engine OIL- Which is best?!

    Quote Originally Posted by boyley View Post
    around $40
    Where from? I'm sure the last lot I got was around $70! Big difference when you need two!

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