Falcon & Territory to disappear forever after 2016

[planetdavo]

I agree, there is alot more to it that which wheels have driveshafts. At the end of the day GM chose to spend there development dollars for the ZR1 on a more powerful engine rather than developing an AWD system and ended up with a faster car than the GTR, maybe its the power, maybe its the weight and polar moment of inertia benifits of RWD over AWD, maybe its the lower frontal area and less drag they could acheive with a RWD over AWD, or maybe its a combination of all these that make it faster but the fact remains it is faster.

The main reason some types love AWD is because it's easier to help a muppet fulfill their world champion race car driver fantasies, rather than that repulsive thought of needing to develop a finely honed skillset.
AWD has it's place in society, but it's not the be all and end all.

[Martin_D]

The main reason some types love AWD is because it's easier to help a muppet fulfill their world champion race car driver fantasies, rather than that repulsive thought of needing to develop a finely honed skillset.
AWD has it's place in society, but it's not the be all and end all.

It might also stop your wife and children losing control on a low traction surface and plowing head on into a speeding Peterbilt coming the other way.
AWD = Primary Safety Feature

[planetdavo]

It might also stop your wife and children losing control on a low traction surface and plowing head on into a speeding Peterbilt coming the other way.
AWD = Primary Safety Feature

Martin, if you open your eyes, you would realise that modern electronics do far more for the population than AWD will EVER do. These electronics just don't help people achieve a fast "lap time". Your comments are severely biased toward high powered cars driven hard, or beyond what the road conditions safely allow. AWD does nothing to prevent the most common accident there is...the rear ender through lack of concentration. AWD only helps TRACTION- A car off the throttle still has exactly the same grip as a 2WD car, because the same tyres are doing the same job. Your favourite subject is mostly about allowing hard launches, attacking your favourite hilly back road if the skills aren't high enough, or for driving like a loony in the rain. For the rest of the population, it is over 100kg's of dead weight, adding to the fuel bill every single time you drive the car...
Premium tyres are the go.

[gmeup]

Martin, if you open your eyes, you would realise that modern electronics do far more for the population than AWD will EVER do. These electronics just don't help people achieve a fast "lap time". Your comments are severely biased toward high powered cars driven hard, or beyond what the road conditions safely allow. AWD does nothing to prevent the most common accident there is...the rear ender through lack of concentration. AWD only helps TRACTION- A car off the throttle still has exactly the same grip as a 2WD car, because the same tyres are doing the same job. Your favourite subject is mostly about allowing hard launches, attacking your favourite hilly back road if the skills aren't high enough, or for driving like a loony in the rain. For the rest of the population, it is over 100kg's of dead weight, adding to the fuel bill every single time you drive the car...
Premium tyres are the go.

I agree every new car has ESP and combine with TC and ABS, your average driver in Aus wouldnt have a clue if they are driving a FWD, RWD or AWD, with these electronics every car will handle in a predictable manner if there is an emergency. As I said australia doesn't need awd we do not have the climate for it we are a dry country with very little snow or ice or dirt or mud on our roads. Go to USA and Canada and lots of folks option their BMW and MERCs all Euro cars with AWD Merc, Bmw etc dont even sell their awd cars to Aus cause they know we dont need them. Thats not to say AWD isnt good and doesnt have it place it is good and it does have its place of course.

Martin, the fastest race cars on the planet are top fuel drag cars with 6000kw and 8000 nm of torque and qtr mile times of under 4.5 secs they are the most powerful race cars and the quickest cars in the world. Guess what they are all RWD. Do you really think they are RWD for saving money as you reckon? as i said RWD and AWD all they their place in motorsport.

[macca_779]

AWD is banned in top fuel drag racing. The cars would be quicker with it no doubt


iPhone

[planetdavo]

AWD is banned in top fuel drag racing. The cars would be quicker with it no doubt


iPhone

Would they? Considering they often try to lift at least one front wheel off the track I have serious doubts...
AWD's advantage is when more performance is being asked for than the tyres can handle, as long as the weight penalty and increased parasitic driveline losses don't exceed the gains had from the extra grip.
Top Fuellers seem to launch "ok".

[C4B]

......... The cars would be quicker with it no doubt

Ummm, yeah ok....

[Martin_D]

Martin, if you open your eyes, you would realise that modern electronics do far more for the population than AWD will EVER do.

Driving at Buller last year in an XR6 anything above walking pace had the car flailing and sliding with TC on. Familys in Foresters looked on curiously as they sailed by. Then it couldnt get out the carpark as it had snowed overnight. Shocker of a thing in slippery conditions.

Traction is a handy thing if you are trying to get anywhere quickly in a car.

[BEARWOOD]

Driving at Buller last year in an XR6 anything above walking pace had the car flailing and sliding with TC on. Familys in Foresters looked on curiously as they sailed by. Then it couldnt get out the carpark as it had snowed overnight. Shocker of a thing in slippery conditions.

Traction is a handy thing if you are trying to get anywhere quickly in a car.

Ye iv often wished my car had AWD whilst racing in the snow, as thats what i often do...

[plonkerchops]

I agree, there is alot more to it that which wheels have driveshafts. At the end of the day GM chose to spend there development dollars for the ZR1 on a more powerful engine rather than developing an AWD system and ended up with a faster car than the GTR, maybe its the power, maybe its the weight and polar moment of inertia benifits of RWD over AWD, maybe its the lower frontal area and less drag they could acheive with a RWD over AWD, or maybe its a combination of all these that make it faster but the fact remains it is faster.

I suppose the 200 extra hp and 220 less kg in weight had nothing to do with it, even though the GTR beat them all out of the blocks

[zorro]

Davo you are right that a good percentage of the average joes don't need AWD on their daily commutes, and these average joes would have no idea what awd/fwd/rwd or even what engine is in their car.

The fact though is that their is a place for AWD and in application will walk on front & rear drive, I've been to club motorkhanas and all the serious blokes have evos/wrx etc and just kill anything else unless there is a lotus 7 or the like with someone who can steer.

Martin, the fastest race cars on the planet are top fuel drag cars with 6000kw and 8000 nm of torque and qtr mile times of under 4.5 secs they are the most powerful race cars and the quickest cars in the world. Guess what they are all RWD. Do you really think they are RWD for saving money as you reckon? as i said RWD and AWD all they their place in motorsport.

Don't forget to add the direct drive and multiple clutches that don't unleash all of the hp off the line, long wheelbase, VHT prepped track. Top fuellers are a bit more complex than the road cars we take to the 1/4 for a test & flog.

[BEARWOOD]

AWD is banned in top fuel drag racing. The cars would be quicker with it no doubt


iPhone

Are you serious?

Interpret that how you will.

[gmeup]

Don't forget to add the direct drive and multiple clutches that don't unleash all of the hp off the line, long wheelbase, VHT prepped track. Top fuellers are a bit more complex than the road cars we take to the 1/4 for a test & flog.

Mate no deyning top fuel is a lot more complex than meets the eye, i was just saying that RWD has its place and application just like AWD some people choose to be ignorant.

[zorro]

All good mate

[Martin_D]

Ye iv often wished my car had AWD whilst racing in the snow, as thats what i often do...

If you actually made any real power you would WISH you had AWD
Thats why the arguments here are from most of those with stockish cars, they have full traction in the dry cause they cant turn the tyres through lack of grunt rolling on in 2nd or 3rd gear

Ignorance comes through having driven slow cars all your life and thinking they are fast on the internet.....its a dumb argument