Oil Test by Street Commodores Magazine - dial up beware

[GTSAdam]

Seemingly good results for the Penrite I use, mind if the tests are irrelevant, then who knows

[Animal]

I have nothing to share with you ken,you have already made ur mind up ,best to speak to ur mechanic.

regards sonny

Aww Sonny, you dodging my question

I make no secrets that the Mobil1 the was supplied and recommended by Heartland Holden / HSV when I initially had the Monaro serviced was happily poured into a bin. The state of the engine when it was pulled down was disgusting.

And yes I now use Royal Purple, when you spend the amount of money I have on an engine you want the best available And I have been using it long before the SC test was done.

You for one would know how many oil reps visit workshops trying to convince you that their oil is better than the other guys. I was just wondering what you recommend. I'm getting the feeling that mainlube might be one

God advice, speak to your mechanic. Your driving style, engine mods, state of your engine may well change his recommendation.

Ok, after speaking with my mechanic, my LS-1 which I occasionally take to the strip, drive daily, enjoy giving it a bit of stick and frying the tyres ..... wait a sec .... I think that covers about 80% of the guys on here


Just thought maybey some good advice will assist the others on here. Sharing some info, fellow LS-1 guys, give them the good oil

[Sonnymad]

Aww Sonny, you dodging my question

I make no secrets that the Mobil1 the was supplied and recommended by Heartland Holden / HSV when I initially had the Monaro serviced was happily poured into a bin. The state of the engine when it was pulled down was disgusting.

And yes I now use Royal Purple, when you spend the amount of money I have on an engine you want the best available And I have been using it long before the SC test was done.

You for one would know how many oil reps visit workshops trying to convince you that their oil is better than the other guys. I was just wondering what you recommend. I'm getting the feeling that mainlube might be one




Ok, after speaking with my mechanic, my LS-1 which I occasionally take to the strip, drive daily, enjoy giving it a bit of stick and frying the tyres ..... wait a sec .... I think that covers about 80% of the guys on here


Just thought maybey some good advice will assist the others on here. Sharing some info, fellow LS-1 guys, give them the good oil

Thanks for ur input ken i,ll consider it,but not in this lifetime

regards sonny

[fatas]

Hey sonny you got sum oil for the barge mate is it purple in colour
just think how that would sell
may be a new maketing tool for steve purple oil !!!!

[RedVYIISS]

Ok, after speaking with my mechanic, my LS-1 which I occasionally take to the strip, drive daily, enjoy giving it a bit of stick and frying the tyres ..... wait a sec .... I think that covers about 80% of the guys on here

Ken,

Totally different ball game with F/I V's N/A. With F/I the nature of the 'system' is that any blowby will carry pollutants of many different varieties into the crankcase and attempt to dilute your oil... and turn it into a corrosive suspension of non lubricating, abrasive crap....

The simplest solution is to use an oil that provides good lubricating qualities and is cheap... as the simplest way to stop accumulation of dilutants and 'crap' is to change it frequently.... far more frequently than you would a N/A engine, where it may be more prudent to use a better quality 'longer life' oil.

[matthewfnorbert]

I believe SC admitted some flaws in their testing procedure shortly after publishing this. The conclusion was the procedure and testing equipment would be more valid for evaluating performance of grease etc rather than engine oil.
I am not a full bottle on tribology (study of wear, lubrications, friction etc ) so cannot personally comment. Although, I was a little skeptical when I saw this article. The results from experimental work are obviously dependant on the inputs so a little bit of knowledge can become a dangerous thing.
I know some of my friends have been involved in this area at university (Mechanical Engineering) and it is incredibly in-depth and complex. In fact people have phDs (Doctorate) based solely in tribology. I would suggest this information should be viewed with this in mind.

you are right this test has very little to do with oil performance and should never have been published, we also entered the metric system 40 years ago! The primary role of lubrication is to keep parts apart and maintain oil integrity, not see what happens when metal to metal takes place, a symptom of some other problem...

Testing to reveal actual oil performance would have been beneficial, this may involve: testing oil chemical and physical properties , inspection (microscopic particle examination) of oil debris for wear modes/indicators and testing oil cleanliness to established ISO standards. These are the true tests of oil/machine performance.

For our application the best thing you can do is to use the correct viscosity (quality stable oil, may or may not be synth) and change out the oil regularly. We do not change oil out because it has 'broken down', we change it out to remove normal wear debris, the oil chemical and physical properties at this point should still be good.

so long life oils may hold there spec (synth for eg.) but you are still pumping all that wear debris through your bearings!!

BTW oils that 'polish' or chemically etch components when put through studies of MPE and ISO cleanliness can actually initially create a lot of wear debris before the ISO codes settle down.. go figure.

anyway as suggested it is very complicated. just buy the best you can afford then change it out frequently. also buy a good oil filter (smallest possible debris size, they can vary a lot). if you are testing oil you will also see that a lot of debris (like silica/sand etc) enters the oil via your air filter and causes nasty wear modes which can be seen in the MPE, so buy a good air filter.


0.02c

[Wingnut]

Just to completely confuse everyone, found this on the web comparing the different oils in the states.

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/t...ne-17-2003.pdf

[OPPYLOCK]

I love a good oil thread so heres a curve ball from left field just to muddy the water a little more.
How clean is your oil before it gets into your engine.
Depending on an oil companies quality processess and the amount of filtration and testing carried out, the amount of unwanted debris in the finished product can vary greatly.
I've seen paint flakes, metal filings, dirt and filter material in oil that is being filled into packaging ready to be sent to customers.
There are about a billion ways that oil can be contaminated before it reaches you and with the volume most companies are putting out it would be impossible to carry out the amount of testing required.
I'm not suggesting all oil companies are dodgy in their production methods but it might be wise to start with a brand that has a good reputation for quality.
Next time you do an oil change, pour your oil through some filter paper.... you may be surprised.

[Blown 454 AWD]

OK, I had a lengthy chat with our Chemist to day over the way this test was run.

They talk of using the Falex machine (as pictured) then they talk about the type of test the Falex machine is famous for, being the “Timken OK Load” test. This test is used to show film strength in greases and sometimes gear oils.

When we got the bibles out and went through the procedure for the “Timken OK Load” test, it didn’t resemble SC test very much, in fact, as SC stated on their first page, the “Timken OK Load” has no wear scar showing.

To cut a long story short, with the oil at about 38.8C you load the machine in 6 pound stages for 10 minutes at a time until the machine breaks through the film of oil and starts to scuff the surface of the metal. The test is then stopped and repeated at 3 pounds less, if there is now no rupturing of the hydronamic film ie, no metal to metal contact, this is the “Timken OK Load”.

So the summing up of this test means running of the machine with the heaviest weight for 10 minutes, without any metal pick up is the “Timken OK Load”.


The photos show large wear scars on several of the bearings, the test should have been stopped and adjusted so all the bearings looked like the Penrite / Royal bearings and the difference between the oils would be the loading in pounds (not psi) without a wear scar, this would be somewhere between 20 and 70 lbs Timken OK Load.

As there was bugger all guide lines as to oil temperature, length of test in minutes or even the ASTM test number that such a test can be compared to or checked against, one has to say the results are not reliable enough to make decisions on which oil is better.

I may be able to get hold of the actual test and post for all to see.



It is very hard for a test like this to simulate running conditions, you really need to run the oil for 5 to 10,000 klms then carry out ppm for oil condition and Filtergram wear metal analysis. Then change to the next oil and run under the same conditions then you have a real test. If you compare the results of the 3 Filtergrams on page 2 of this post, that is a real indication of wear sustained over a distance. Things like heat and contamination (the biggest killer of any machine) take there toll in real situations that don’t show up in lab tests.

Cheers

Steve

The "Timken OK Load" test procedure I have referred to above is the ASTM D2782 test

Cheers

Steve

[Animal]

Totally different ball game with F/I V's N/A. With F/I the nature of the 'system' is that any blowby will carry pollutants of many different varieties into the crankcase and attempt to dilute your oil... and turn it into a corrosive suspension of non lubricating, abrasive crap....

The simplest solution is to use an oil that provides good lubricating qualities and is cheap... as the simplest way to stop accumulation of dilutants and 'crap' is to change it frequently.... far more frequently than you would a N/A engine, where it may be more prudent to use a better quality 'longer life' oil.

Which is why I noted that this effect's over 80% of the guys on here. I honestly think that less than 5% of the crew that are on here are run FI. I understand that FI, especiallt turbo'd motors, required a better quality of oil. I ran a rajay turbo on my XU-1 for a while. Many bearings were required to be replaced because of my lack of knowledge on the stuff. And the mechanic's around at the time were also getting a better grip on the slippery stuff.

I don't understand oil as well as some of the fella's on here which is why I asked Sonny for his comments. I know Sam's already and Steve from Mainlube's insight's are very well received ( for the research info Steve ). We are lucky to have members like him that provide an accurate insight.

Seem's some are happy to share info to our community whislt others reserve it for their clients only.

I love a good oil thread so heres a curve ball from left field just to muddy the water a little more.
How clean is your oil before it gets into your engine.
Depending on an oil companies quality processess and the amount of filtration and testing carried out, the amount of unwanted debris in the finished product can vary greatly.
I've seen paint flakes, metal filings, dirt and filter material in oil that is being filled into packaging ready to be sent to customers.
There are about a billion ways that oil can be contaminated before it reaches you and with the volume most companies are putting out it would be impossible to carry out the amount of testing required.
I'm not suggesting all oil companies are dodgy in their production methods but it might be wise to start with a brand that has a good reputation for quality.
Next time you do an oil change, pour your oil through some filter paper.... you may be surprised.

I love a good oil thread too, one of the reasons I took the time to scan and post the info here. And I totally agree with your comments. A few too many guys here live for a brand. This thread is was done to open a few eyes.

Ken

.

[High Octane]

Just my two cents, My Z28 equiped with an LT1 has 1,009,000 Miles on it that’s 1,623,481 Kilometers. Most of witch were full throttle tyre smoking race day miles, currently on the sixth set of tyres.

The car has had Mobile 1 in it since the first oil change. I have changed the oil every 3000 Mi (4827Km) with new filter. It doesn’t smoke or burn oil, has the same power it had from day one.

My LS1 Monaro has 21,000 Miles (33,789Km) again Mobile 1 from first oil change. The car has been to 12 race tracks (V8 Supercar) type tracks. I’d say roughly 1500 to 2000 Miles (3218Km) of tracking, meaning RPM’s at a constant 4000 to 6200 red line. Absolutely no sign of wear or damage to the engine. I ignore the stupid oil change system and have changed every 3000Mi (4827Km) with new filer.

[Crusty]

Just my two cents, My Z28 equiped with an LT1 has 1,009,000 Miles on it that’s 1,623,481 Kilometers. Most of witch were full throttle tyre smoking race day miles, currently on the sixth set of tyres.

The car has had Mobile 1 in it since the first oil change. I have changed the oil every 3000 Mi (4827Km) with new filter. It doesn’t smoke or burn oil, has the same power it had from day one.

My LS1 Monaro has 21,000 Miles (33,789Km) again Mobile 1 from first oil change. The car has been to 12 race tracks (V8 Supercar) type tracks. I’d say roughly 1500 to 2000 Miles (3218Km) of tracking, meaning RPM’s at a constant 4000 to 6200 red line. Absolutely no sign of wear or damage to the engine. I ignore the stupid oil change system and have changed every 3000Mi (4827Km) with new filer.

Some good info there, I'll continue to use Mobil 1 untill such time as that someone proves it's not the stuff to use.