2011 Formula 1

[VX2VESS]

Kubica injured in car crash


© AP, 6 February 2011

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/kubica-060211.jpg © AP Images Formula 1 driver Robert Kubica (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_663/Robert-Kubica/latest-articles.aspx) of Poland has been injured in a rally car accident just weeks before the start of the new Grand Prix season, his Lotus Renault (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_17/Renault/latest-articles.aspx) team said Sunday.
Kubica, eighth in last year's F1 world championship, now looks unlikely to race at Bahrain on March 13.
His team said in a statement that Kubica "suffered an accident at high speed this morning while competing in the Ronde di Andora Rally" and was "airlifted to Pietra Ligure Hospital, where he is currently undergoing medical checks."
No immediate details on his injuries were given but a further statement was expected later.
French sports channel Eurosport reported that Kubica may have a fractured hip and multiple other injuries, including possibly a fracture to his arm or wrist.
ANSA news agency said the 26-year-old driver was 4.6-kilometers from the start of the rally, near Genoa, when his car left the road and hit a wall. His co-driver Jacub Gerber was unhurt, the Lotus Renault team said.
Kubica was due to lead the Lotus Renault F1 team this season alongside Vitaly Petrov (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_870/Vitaly-Petrov/latest-articles.aspx) of Russia, with former HRT driver Bruno Senna (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_867/Bruno-Senna/latest-articles.aspx) named as a third driver. Romain Grosjean, who drove for Renault in 2009 (http://www.f1pulse.com/2009_seasons/2009_seasons.aspx), was also named third driver alongside Senna.
It was not immediately known whether Senna or Grosjean would take Kubica's place in Bahrain should he fail to recover.
Last week, Kubica closed F1's first test session of the season with the fastest time over three days in Valencia, Spain.
The next F1 test session is Feb. 10-13 in Jerez (http://www.f1pulse.com/circuits/Jerez/3D3C/circuits_profile.aspx), Spain.

[ittwgn]

hi mate bad news about kubica amazing they let him race a rally so close to championship start thinkin you would wrap them in cotton wool so to speak!!!! cheers

[bok1]

some more info.



MILAN, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Surgeons are trying to re-establish the functionality of Formula One driver Robert Kubica's right hand following an accident in a rally car, his manager said on Sunday.

driver Robert Kubica suffered multiple fractures to his right arm, leg and hand in a high-speed crash on Sunday while competing in a rally in Italy, his Renault team said.

Kubica, Renault's leading driver and a race winner in Canada in 2008 with his former BMW-Sauber team, was undergoing surgery at the Santa Corona Hospital in Pietra Ligure, the team added in a statement.

"Robert is very strong and he will do it," Daniele Morelli added to reporters at the hospital. (Writing by Mark Meadows; Editing by Clare Fallon; To query or comment on this story email sportsfeedback@thomsonreuters.com)

every year it seems that 1 f1 driver has a accident before the season starts.i bet there will be some clauses put in contracts soon to cover this.

phil

[NickG1982]

There's been reports on Autosport.com about certain drivers now being forbidden by their management from doing other forms of racing outside of their F1 duties.

Latest reports have Kubica's first operation having been a success and that he's having further operations on broken bones later in the week. In reality, he's very lucky to be alive, if you see photos of the car after accident, he's very lucky he wasn't impaled.

Sad thing is, it really buggers the season up, Kubica for a lot people, the driver of 2010, as he drove like a man possessed every single race. And with the new Renault being very fast straight out of the box, with Kubica having been fastest in the early test sessions, he really was a bona fide title contender.

As for the question of who will replace him, news sites have returns to driving being anywhere from 6 months to the entire season, so whoever gets the seat will have a one in a million chance to make a name for themselves.

At the moment, Renault has announced it will come down to a comparison taking place at test sessions between Kubica's former team mate Nick Heidfeld and former Hispania driver and current Renault tester Bruno Senna. Basically it's Heidfeld's experience and car developing abilities against Senna's promise and name. From reading reports online from the test sessions, Heidfeld picked up where Kubica left off by being fastest at Jerez and is already developing the car, with Senna seemingly left to be the lead back up.

The one guy who probably is under massive pressure though is Vitaly Petrov, even though he finished 2010 very well and has been solid during testing, with Heidfeld on the pace and now in a seat he may be the one edged out when Kubica returns.

On non Renault but Aussie related news from the test sessions, Mark Webber was in the top 10 for times over the sessions and is right on the pace. Also, Red Bull/STR test driver Daniel Ricciardo from Perth did his chances of getting a race drive during the year no harm by being consistently faster than either of STR's race drivers, Buemi and Alguesuari.

[ittwgn]

hi lets hope kubica returns 100% his rally car looks nasty!!!
http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy59/ittwgn/_51123428_011203644-1.jpg

[QIKMIK]

Read on Mark's webpage that the RB7 is coming together pretty well and that amongst all the changes to cars this year (KERS, adjustable wings, etc), the biggest variable will be tyres.

All the best to Kubica for his recovery. Will be interesting to see how mini-Senna goes with some decent hardware under his seat.

Mick

[VX2VESS]

Barrichello is fastest on final day of Jerez test




http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/barrichello-130211.jpg © AP Images Williams (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_5/Williams/latest-articles.aspx) driver Rubens Barrichello (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_687/Rubens-Barrichello/latest-articles.aspx) posted the quickest time on the fourth and final day of testing at the Jerez (http://www.f1pulse.com/circuits/Jerez/3D3C/circuits_profile.aspx) Circuit.
The Brazilian veteran set a time of 1 minute, 19.832 seconds Sunday. Kamui Kobayashi (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_864/Kamui-Kobayashi/latest-articles.aspx) of Sauber (http://www.f1pulse.com/constructor/Sauber/3B3E/constructor_profile.aspx) was 0.769 seconds behind and Fernando Alonso (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_238/Fernando-Alonso/latest-articles.aspx) of Ferrari (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_1/Ferrari/latest-articles.aspx) was third fastest in 1:21.074.
Renault (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_17/Renault/latest-articles.aspx) tried out Bruno Senna (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_867/Bruno-Senna/latest-articles.aspx)-- who was fifth fastest in 1:21.400-- to take the place of Robert Kubica (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_663/Robert-Kubica/latest-articles.aspx), a day after Nick Heidfeld (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_561/Nick-Heidfeld/latest-articles.aspx) made his case with Saturday's fastest lap. Kubica suffered serious injuries in a high-speed accident in a rally race in Italy last Sunday.
World champion Sebastian Vettel (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_698/Sebastian-Vettel/latest-articles.aspx) finished eighth.
Testing continues at the Circuit de Catalunya (http://www.f1pulse.com/circuits/Catalunya/3B3C/circuits_profile.aspx) in northwest Spain on Friday.
Pos. Driver Team Time Gap Laps 1 Rubens Barrichello Williams 1m19.832s
103 2 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 1m20.601s +0.769s 86 3 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m21.074s +1.242s 115 4 Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 1m21.213s +1.381s 90 5 Bruno Senna Lotus Renault GP 1m21.400s +1.568s 68 6 Heikki Kovalainen Team Lotus 1m21.632s +1.800s 43 7 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1m22.103s +2.271s 45 8 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1m22.222s +2.390s 90 9 Jenson Button McLaren 1m22.278s +2.446s 70 10 Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin Racing 1m22.985s +3.153s 45 11 Paul di Resta Force India 1m23.111s +3.279s 99

Webber not in the top 11

[QIKMIK]

Webber not in the top 11Driver: Mark Webber
Car: RB7 – 01
Laps: 113 laps
Best time: 1:21.613
Circuit length: 4.4km
Fastest lap: M. Schumacher (1:20.352)
Mark Webber was at the wheel of the RB7 again today for day two of Red Bull Racing’s current test session in Jerez, Southern Spain.
It was another sunny day, with cool early morning temperatures increasing to around 18°C. Notching up 113 laps, the team completed its planned programme for the day.
Ian Morgan Head of Race Engineering said: “We continued to evaluate the new Pirelli tyres today, as well as testing some new aerodynamic components and development parts. It was a productive day; we concentrated on long runs and completed our programme. We’ve had good reliability and Mark’s had a solid two days in the car.”
Mark Webber said: “The car ran very well and we’re continuing to learn. It’s very early days at the moment in terms of performance and there’s a long way to go before the first race, but we’ve got some good mileage in, which is important.”

Sebastian will be back in the cockpit tomorrow, as he takes over driving duties for the final two days of the test.
Ends//

[VX2VESS]

so they are only using one car and sharing time in it?

[-GTS-]

Can't wait for the 2011 season to start! 23 days to go....

I'd like to see Webber do well again - maybe this is his year for a championship??!!

Also like to see some new faces on the podium this year...

The Pirelli tyres should make for exciting racing too

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11745.html

:goodjob:

[VX2VESS]

Lotus Renault GP has announced Nick Heidfeld as a replacement for the injured Robert Kubica this season

[VX2VESS]

cut and paste

Guide to rule changes in 2011


http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211.jpg
AP Images After widescale changes to the technical regulations in the past two seasons, 2011 should prove no different, with a further raft of challenges and opportunities facing the engineers that will have a major impact on the Formula 1 field.
With the aim to create more exciting and unpredictable racing, these are 2011’s major developments, their primary effects and the ways that teams would has approach them:
Adjustable Rear Wings Introduced

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211-1.jpg
AP Images With the FOTA-led initiative, drivers will now be able to adjust the rear wing from the cockpit under new moveable bodywork regulations designed to improve overtaking. The system, which alters the angle of incidence between two set positions, is electronically governed and can be used at any time during practice and qualifying but can only be activated during the race when the driver of the suitably equipped car is one second or less behind another competitor at specific pre-determined deployment zones on the track. The adjustable rear wing is automatically disabled if the driver uses the brakes. In combination with KERS, the drag reduction system is designed to boost overtaking. Also like KERS, it is not compulsory.
It will have considerably greater end-of-straight speeds, particularly in qualifying when deployment is unregulated. In races, the drag reduction system (DRS) should hopefully encourage more overtaking. Potential for its exploitation around restarts, out of yellow-flag periods and between backmarkers could lead to a refinement of its permissible use as the season develops.
Adjustable Front-Wings Banned
Adjustable front-wing flaps, which were introduced in 2009 (http://www.f1pulse.com/2009_seasons/2009_seasons.aspx) to give drivers the ability to dial out any handling instabilities have been dropped to aid simplicity and reduce costs.
F-Ducts Banned

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211-2.jpg
AP Images Any driver-influenced system, device or procedure which uses driver movement as a means of altering the aerodynamic characteristics of the car is prohibited (with the exception of the adjustable rear wing) - that means no F-ducts. The F-duct concept used to allow a driver to stall the rear wing, reduce drag and increase top-end speed Double Diffusers Banned
Tightening of the regulations on stepped floors, causing the diffuser volume to be subtly smaller this year, means double diffusers in their original sense are also banned. The height of the diffuser has been reduced from 175mm to 125mm.
Limits the increasingly complex and costly ‘arms race’ that came from the double-diffuser rules loophole. While the diffuser will still be a key player in car development, both rule changes mean its overall effect will be reduced – so expect development focus to shift to other areas of the car.
KERS Reintroduced

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211-3.jpg
Red Bull Racing Subject to a unanimous mutual agreement to suspend its use in 2010, KERS (hybrid) returns this year as a part of the powertrain. KERS uses the wasted energy generated under braking and makes it available as additional power to the car. The steering wheel-mounted ‘boost button’ is fully controlled by the driver providing fixed quantities per lap - up to 60kW at maximum power and 400MJ per lap for around 6.6 seconds - and can be used in one go or at different points around the lap.
The systems are essentially the same as those seen in 2009, with no increase in the maximum permitted power (though that could change in subsequent seasons). The challenge for the engineers this time round is packaging. Last time KERS was run, refuelling was legal. Now, with it banned, fuel tanks are larger and finding room to accommodate battery packs etc is not as easy. Hence don’t be surprised if bodywork has grown in places, relative to 2010.
If everyone uses a hybrid system, and deploys it at the same points, then it won’t be as great a differentiator as it was in 2009. The system won’t store enough energy to allow maximum deployment every lap, so judicious drivers could benefit. Use of double-deployment during qualifying will mean a very big jump between qualifying and race pace.
Gearbox

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211-4.jpg
Red Bull Racing As part of the sport’s cost-saving and environmental initiatives, gearboxes now need to last for five race weekends, extended from four race weekends as in 2010. An incremental increase, but a valuable cost-saving one: gearboxes could already theoretically last for five races in 2010, so this change will be more about managing the margin and optimising practical use.
Pirelli joins Formula 1
Pirelli , last part of F1 in 1991 (http://www.f1pulse.com/seasons/1991/seasons_overview.aspx), has taken over from Bridgestone as the sport’s sole tyre supplier for a period of three years - from 2011 to 2013 – and will have a very different degradation and wear profiles to the Japanese rubber.
The tyre allocation for each driver remains at 11 sets of dry tyres per race weekend. Three sets (two prime and one option) can be used in P1 and P2 with one set returned after each session. A further eight sets can then be used for the rest of the weekend with one set of each specification handed back after qualifying. Each driver must use both specifications of dry tyres during a dry race.
If a driver fails to use both specifications of dry-weather tyres during a (dry) race, they will be excluded from the results. If a (dry) race is suspended and can’t be restarted, and a driver has failed to use both specifications, 30 seconds will be added to the driver’s race time.
http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211-5.jpg
Pirelli Probably the biggest variable to overcome in 2011: the advantage from quickly adapting to the mechanical grip produced by the new tyres could be critical to the championship. Judging from last year’s Abu Dhabi test, both wear and degradation looks quite high. As a result, existing one-stop races are likely to become two-stoppers, and those drivers able to manage and exploit their tyres could profit the most.
Minimum Weight of the Car Raised
The minimum weight of the car including driver has now been upped by 20kg to 640kg meaning larger drivers don’t pay the weight-distribution penalty they once did in a KERS-equipped car.
Weight increase brought about to allow for easier packaging of the hybrid system. It also won’t marginalise the bigger drivers. Cars will be heavier on track, and slower through the corners.
Fixed Weight-Distribution
Agreed by all teams as protection against the random possibility of the new Pirelli tyres favouring one particular weight distribution. To avoid the potential of a lottery, the teams wrote a regulation fixing forward weight distribution between 45.5 and 46.5 per cent to apply for 2011 season only.
Second Safety Tether Fitted

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211-6.jpg
AP Images In response to several stray wheels over the course of the 2010 season, teams must now place a second tether on every wheel to improve safety. The two tethers must be contained in separate suspension members. It thus reduces the likelihood of wheels breaking away from the chassis in the event of an impact Extended Driver Protection Panels
For protecting the driver from debris penetration, driver protection panels on the chassis has been extended.
107 Percent Rule Re-introduced
For the first time since 2002 (http://www.f1pulse.com/seasons/2002/seasons_overview.aspx), any driver who fails to set a lap within 107% of the fastest Q1 time will not be permitted to start the race. However, in extenuating circumstances, which could include a driver setting a suitable time during practice, the FIA stewards may grant an exception.
Ban on Late-Night Working on Thursday and Friday Evenings

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/February2011/rules-sp-160211-7.jpg
Hispania Racing Team A curfew has been introduced for team personnel associated with the operation of the cars who will not be allowed in the circuit during a six-hour period which commences ten hours before the scheduled start times of P1 on Friday and P3 on Saturday. Each team is permitted four individual exceptions to this rule during the season. This clampdown has been initiated to avoid long working hours for the crew. The new working ban effectively means the end of lengthy all-nighters to prep and fit last-minute new development parts during a race weekend. It means teams will need to shift the delivery of new parts to earlier in the weekend.
Penalties
Stewards can now impose a wider range of penalties for driving and other rule transgressions. The new penalties include: time penalties, exclusion from race results or suspension from subsequent events.
Team Orders
The clause which bans team orders has been removed from the sporting regulations.

[QIKMIK]

The clause which bans team orders has been removed from the sporting regulations.Sebastian, Mark is lapping faster than you. Can you confirm that you understand?? ;)

Mick

[QIKMIK]

From CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/21/bahrain.protests/


Bahrain cancels Grand Prix race, prepares for more protests

Manama, Bahrain (CNN) -- The crowd in Pearl Roundabout swelled Monday on the eve of planned mass demonstrations and the expected return of a self-exiled opposition figure.

Thousands more people moved into the square on Monday, a presence that has taken on an air of permanence since government forces retreated on Saturday and demonstrators reoccupied the symbolic location. Tents, some of them outfitted with furniture and occupied by entire families, dot the square.

The mass protests planned for Tuesday in support of calls for political reforms and other concessions coincide with planned return of Hassan Mushaimaa, who is the leader of Bahrain's largest opposition party -- the Haq Movement.

"I know that thousands will be waiting for me," said Mushaimaa, who said he planned to give a speech in Bahrain on Tuesday about the importance of national unity.
Change coming to Bahrain?
RELATED TOPICS

* Bahrain
* Formula One Racing

"I don't have any guarantees that I won't be arrested," he said. "If that happens, the people will not accept it."

Mushaimaa said he will arrive in Bahrain at 7 p.m. (11 a.m. ET) Tuesday.

"If the people want a new system in a constitutional kingdom, I will be with them," he said. "If the people just want to change the regime, I will also be standing beside them."

Mushaimaa, who has been living abroad, had previously been detained by the government for campaigning for more democratic rights in the island monarchy.

In September, Bahrain said it requested Interpol -- the world's largest international police organization -- to help in arresting Mushaimaa, who the government accused of a terrorist plot to destroy state buildings and of planning a coup.

Meanwhile, fallout from last week's violent protests continues.

A 20-year-old protester in Bahrain, who was shot in the head on Friday, has died, hospital sources said Monday. Ridha Mohammed was advancing toward the Pearl Roundabout with other demonstrators when security forces opened fire.

Prior to Mohammed's death, about 10 protesters were thought to have died in five days of protests, but opposition activists say dozens more are unaccounted for.

Bahrain canceled its participation in a Grand Prix auto race that had been scheduled to begin March 11. Testing for the race had been scheduled to start March 3, and protest organizers had threatened to disrupt the event.

The race apparently will be rescheduled, but no date has been selected, race officials said.

In announcing the decision, Crown Prince Salman said, "We felt it was important for the country to focus on immediate issues of national interest and leave the hosting of Bahrain's Formula 1 race to a later date."

The country hopes to host the race "in the very near future, according to Zayed R. Alzayani, chairman of the Bahrain International Circuit.

State television on Monday broadcast images of pro-government demonstrators who gathered near a mosque in the capital city, holding flags and chanting slogans including "Long live the king."

Also on Monday, Standard & Poor's downgraded Bahrain's credit rating by one step and advised investors that it believes continued protests could result in a further degradation of the country's ability to meet its financial obligations.

"We expect the demonstrations that have taken place over the past month will persist," the agency wrote.

Protesters initially took to the streets of Manama last week to demand reform and the introduction of a constitutional monarchy.

But some are now calling for the removal of the royal family, which has led the Persian Gulf state since the 18th century.

Young members of the country's Shiite Muslim majority have staged violent protests in recent years to complain about discrimination, unemployment and corruption, issues they say the country's Sunni rulers have done little to address.

The Bahrain Center for Human Rights says authorities launched a clampdown on dissent in late 2010. It accused the government of torturing some human rights activists.

[Dug]

I don't know if it's just me, but does this season seem to have very little in the way of interesting news in it's leadup?

I remember previous years trawling the web for information on stuff, and being quite excited about it. This year, it's just who is going to be called Lotus, and who isn't going to be racing for one of them.

BTW - RedBull Renault is no longer. Enter RedBull Infiniti. Essentially, the same motor, but badged as Inifinit (Nissan), since Nissan developed the engine with Renault anyway.

[QIKMIK]

RedBull Datsun, eh? :)

Mick

[Podge]

I don't know if it's just me, but does this season seem to have very little in the way of interesting news in it's leadup?

I remember previous years trawling the web for information on stuff, and being quite excited about it. This year, it's just who is going to be called Lotus, and who isn't going to be racing for one of them.

BTW - RedBull Renault is no longer. Enter RedBull Infiniti. Essentially, the same motor, but badged as Inifinit (Nissan), since Nissan developed the engine with Renault anyway.

I find the new regulations quite interesting and love seeing how teams have exploited the rules (check out the tech articles at f1.com). Other than that, there has been Kubica's crash and Bahrain getting cancelled, both of those things will change the outcome at the end of the season i think you will find (less points on offer for Bahrain although there is the slightest chance it will get held later on this year i remember seeing?, and Kubica scored quite regularly last year, i think Heidfeld will also score well but not as many points as Kubica would have).

I also think that Ricciardo's testing has been quite promising, whether he will get much of a chance come race weekend is yet to be seen but certainly some potential there.

I think there has been plenty going on in the paddock that is of interest but (unfortunately) sites like f1.com would rather ask drivers the same 5-10 questions over and over!

Bring on race 1 (i wish they would make the AU GP the last again but being the first isnt too bad) and lets see who has pace and who doesnt!

Oh and for those interested, gridbids.com is a 'fantasy league' type website. Its pretty well done i think, give it a go if its your thing.

[Dug]

Lodge - yeah, listed out lol that I guess you're right. Thinking about it it's probably just the almost total lack of driver movements that I'm missing I guess.

Sites like Formula1 rarely get me on them these days. I much prefer the independent sites and journo blogs. For those interested, there are often a lot of great opinions, wacky theories, and good info at joesaward.wordpress.com

[EXCESSV]

Gonna be a good year this one.

Anyone attending any of the races in person?
i have booked and paid for singapore and cant wait....counting down the weeks! :lol:

[VX2VESS]

Webber tops day one of final test





http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/March2011/webber-090311.jpg

Mark Webber of Red Bull drove the fastest lap Tuesday on the opening day of the final Formula 1 testing session before the start of the new season.
The Australian's time of 1 minute, 22.544 seconds at Catalunya Circuit was also faster than any lap from the session here last month.
"It was a pretty good day and not much has changed since last week," Webber said. "I think everybody is limited by tires -- we don't have unlimited sets of tires these days, so the mileage is a bit controlled by how many you have at your disposal."
Jenson Button's lap of 1:22.910 in his McLaren was next quickest as the British team tried out a new front wing.
"The last couple of tests haven't been perfect for us, and I think that's partly due to us lacking setup work," the 2009 world champion said. "There's not much testing left -- I only have one more day in the car -- but, after today, I feel we can make further positive progress over the next few days."
Mexican driver Sergio Perez of Sauber finished between Renault pair Vitaly Petrov and Nick Heidfeld to round out the top five as eight of the 11 teams tested, with most bringing new aerodynamic packages to their cars.
Luiz Razia of Team Lotus was 10th with a lap of 1:26.723, while Jerome d'Ambrosio was nearly 10 seconds off Webber's pace to finish last in his Virgin Racing car.
The session, which runs until Saturday, was originally supposed to be held in Bahrain ahead of the season-opening grand prix. But anti-government unrest forced organizers to postpone the race. Organizers have until May 1 to propose a new date for the race.

The Australian GP will now open the season on March 27.

Pos. Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1 Mark Webber Red Bull 1m22.544s 97
2 Jenson Button McLaren 1m22.910s +0.366 74
3 Vitaly Petrov Lotus Renault GP 1m22.937s +0.393 27
4 Sergio Perez Sauber 1m24.117s +1.573 90
5 Nick Heidfeld Lotus Renault GP 1m24.735s +2.191 20
6 Paul di Resta Force India 1m25.039s +2.495 38
7 Davide Valsecchi Team Lotus 1m25.406s +2.862 50
8 Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 1m26.004s +3.460 48
9 Nico Hulkenberg Force India 1m26.030s +3.486 31
10 Luiz Razia Team Lotus 1m26.723s +4.179 29

[VX2VESS]

Vettel fastest on day two of testing



http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/March2011/vettel-100311.jpg

(http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_480/Lewis-Hamilton/latest-articles.aspx)Lewis Hamilton (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_480/Lewis-Hamilton/latest-articles.aspx) has warned that McLaren (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_2/McLaren/latest-articles.aspx)'s car isn't quite championship caliber just yet after world champion Sebastian Vettel (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_698/Sebastian-Vettel/latest-articles.aspx) led testing Wednesday for Red Bull (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_145/Red-Bull/latest-articles.aspx) to strengthen its status as early season favorite.
Vettel set the fastest lap yet of preseason running at the Catalunya (http://www.f1pulse.com/circuits/Catalunya/3B3C/circuits_profile.aspx) Circuit with a quickest time of 1 minute, 21.865 seconds.
Despite teammate Mark Webber (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_510/Mark-Webber/latest-articles.aspx) being fastest to open the five-day session on Tuesday, Vettel cautioned against putting too much stock into the Austrian team's early results.
"It was a good day and a good time, although to be honest it's difficult to say where we are, as the lap times of the teams are all over the place," Vettel said. "We have had no major problems with reliability throughout testing and the speed looks good as far as we can judge. But I think we have to wait until after Melbourne -- maybe in Malaysia or China -- to really see where we are."
Hamilton was fourth, just over one second behind Vettel, after his session was cut short by an exhaust problem.
"Do I believe I have a car to win the world championship at the moment? I don't, no," said Hamilton, the 2008 (http://www.f1pulse.com/seasons/2008/seasons_overview.aspx) champion. "But that doesn't mean it won't become a world championship-winning car.
"As long as we keep pushing in the right direction with the development and the new things we have coming several races down the line, hopefully they will enable us to close the gap and compete for wins. As long as we pick up a good few points in the first few races, then we won't be miles behind."
Hamilton isn't panicking, as McLaren has been known to be one of the best teams at developing a car through a season.
"This is testing. This is what it's all about, finding where your weaknesses are so you can build on them and fix them," said the Briton. "It was a bit on and off today, it wasn't a great day for us. But in terms of how the car felt, there was an improvement with some of the upgrades we have. So that is at least a positive, it's not all negative."
McLaren welcomed Pedro De la Rosa (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_605/Pedro-de-la-Rosa/latest-articles.aspx) back into the team as reserve driver after the Spaniard left the British team to drive for Sauber (http://www.f1pulse.com/constructor/Sauber/3B3E/constructor_profile.aspx) last season. Sauber replaced De la Rosa with current Renault (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_17/Renault/latest-articles.aspx) driver Nick Heidfeld (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_561/Nick-Heidfeld/latest-articles.aspx) after 14 races.
Toro Rosso (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_150/Toro-Rosso/latest-articles.aspx) driver Sebastien Buemi (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_783/Sebastien-Buemi/latest-articles.aspx) was nearly half-a-second behind Vettel ahead of Renault's Vitaly Petrov (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_870/Vitaly-Petrov/latest-articles.aspx), while Ferrari (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_1/Ferrari/latest-articles.aspx) driver Felipe Massa (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_237/Felipe-Massa/latest-articles.aspx) was fifth in 1:23.324 as the Italian team tested a new exhaust system.
Spanish outfit HRT named Vitantonio Liuzzi (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_762/Vitantonio-Liuzzi/latest-articles.aspx) its second driver behind Narain Karthikeyan (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_555/Narain-Karthikeyan/latest-articles.aspx) on Wednesday, with the Italian expected to take the wheel later this week.
Testing continues through Saturday with the season opening at the Australian Grand Prix (http://www.f1pulse.com/grands_prix/Australia/grand_prix_profile.aspx) on March 27.




Pos. Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1m21.865s
112
2 Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.396s +0.531s 120
3 Vitaly Petrov Lotus Renault GP 1m22.670s +0.805s 116
4 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1m22.888s +1.023s 57
5 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m23.324s +1.459s 101
6 Paul di Resta Force India 1m24.334s +2.469s 118
7 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 1m24.436s +2.571s 107
8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1m25.807s +3.942s 100
9 Jarno Trulli Team Lotus 1m26.090s +4.225s 98
10 Pastor Maldonado Williams 1m26.989s +5.124s 29
11 Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin Racing 1m28.982s +7.117s 64

[VX2VESS]

Mark Webber on how does Kers work and the new rear wing

IAE1yepFabc

[VX2VESS]

Pirelli reveals colour codes for tyres



http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/March2011/pirelli-210311.jpg © Pirelli Pirelli has revealed the colour codes that will differentiate the six types of compounds that will be used throughout the 2011 season.
The colour strips will be affixed to the sidewall of the tyres would help the F1 fraternity to distinguish which kind of tyres are being used by a particular driver during his stint during a weekend.
“We’re very excited by the prospect of returning to Formula 1 for the first time in 20 years, and we’re aiming to be a proactive and colourful partner in Formula 1. So what better way to symbolise this than a brightly coloured selection of Pirelli logos to run on the sidewalls?” pointed out Pirelli’s Motorsport Director Paul Hembery. “These will enable both live and television audiences to tell at a glance who is on what compounds, which will be vital knowledge as tyres are set to form a key part of race strategy this year.”
The colour codes are as follows:
Wet – Orange
Intermediate – Light Blue
Supersoft – Red
Soft – Yellow
Medium – White
Hard – Silver
The hard and the medium compound tyres will not be used during the same grand prix event hence there is no likelihood of the silver and white colours being used in a particular race weekend.
The season-opening Australian Grand Prix (http://www.f1pulse.com/grands_prix/Australia/grand_prix_profile.aspx) and the following Grands Prix of Malaysia and China will be run on hard and soft compounds. The intermediates and wet options would be available should it rain during any of the outings.

[VX2VESS]

live timing

http://www.f1pulse.com/seasons/2011/racecentre.aspx

[Jonesy40]

there is a live stream of ONE HD coverage on their website for anyone interested.

[VX2VESS]

there is a live stream of ONE HD coverage on their website for anyone interested.


Thanks http://onehd.com.au/motorsport-live-streaming.htm

[RRossi]

I have made the trip over this year to the F1 for my 30th and so far it has been fantastic!


I love Melbourne and I love the people!

I was very luck to meet this guy :1peek: in Chaple St,


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/vxssrr01wa/033.jpg

I was able to speak to him and his Girl in Italian and he signed a hat and a Ferrari bag, I though wow thats cool lets see if I can get Fernando auto graph but some how with a billion people at the track that just isnt going to happen..... I am just over the moon to have met Felipe and have is autograph, people here at Melbourne that I have spoken to cant belive it! lol


I cant wait for the qualifying tommorow!

FORZA FERRARI!


RR

[hoon69]

Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:26.831 20
2 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:27.158 0.327 19
3 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:27.749 0.918 20
4 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1:28.152 1.321 16
5 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:28.430 1.599 24
6 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:28.440 1.609 29
7 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:28.483 1.652 26
8 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 1:28.690 1.859 14
9 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:28.725 1.894 13
10 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:28.765 1.934 15
11 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:28.842 2.011 20
12 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:28.928 2.097 14
13 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:29.314 2.483 19
14 18 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:29.328 2.497 21
15 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:29.403 2.572 24
16 19 Daniel Ricciardo STR-Ferrari 1:29.468 2.637 23
17 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:29.643 2.812 18
18 15 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1:31.002 4.171 20
19 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1:32.428 5.597 13
20 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1:35.282 8.451 17
21 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:35.289 8.458 15
22 21 Karun Chandhok Lotus-Renault No time 1
23 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth No time 0
24 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth No time 0


Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.854 32
2 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.986 0.132 31
3 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:26.001 0.147 28
4 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:26.014 0.160 35
5 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:26.283 0.429 33
6 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 1:26.590 0.736 31
7 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:26.789 0.935 34
8 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:27.101 1.247 39
9 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:27.280 1.426 34
10 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1:27.448 1.594 23
11 19 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:27.525 1.671 31
12 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:27.528 1.674 29
13 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:27.536 1.682 22
14 18 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:27.697 1.843 30
15 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:28.095 2.241 35
16 15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:28.376 2.522 33
17 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:28.583 2.729 31
18 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:29.386 3.532 29
19 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1:30.829 4.975 22
20 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1:30.912 5.058 23
21 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1:32.106 6.252 36
22 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:32.135 6.281 30
23 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth No time 1
24 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth No time 0


Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:24.507 15
2 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:25.364 0.857 14
3 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.553 1.046 15
4 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.567 1.060 16
5 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:25.906 1.399 18
6 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:26.121 1.614 16
7 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:26.417 1.910 17
8 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1:26.520 2.013 17
9 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:26.746 2.239 17
10 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 1:26.856 2.349 15
11 18 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:27.008 2.501 17
12 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:27.011 2.504 15
13 19 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:27.066 2.559 14
14 15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:27.087 2.580 15
15 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:27.180 2.673 15
16 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:28.068 3.561 7
17 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:28.077 3.570 9
18 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1:29.772 5.265 17
19 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1:30.003 5.496 18
20 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:30.261 5.754 15
21 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:30.496 5.989 5
22 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1:30.704 6.197 18
23 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1:41.554 17.047 5
24 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth No time 1


Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:25.296 1:24.090 1:23.529 16
2 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.384 1:24.595 1:24.307 19
3 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:25.900 1:24.658 1:24.395 15
4 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:25.886 1:24.957 1:24.779 18
5 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:25.707 1:25.242 1:24.974 19
6 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:25.543 1:25.582 1:25.247 18
7 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1:25.856 1:25.606 1:25.421 17
8 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:26.031 1:25.611 1:25.599 18
9 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:25.717 1:25.405 1:25.626 17
10 18 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:26.232 1:25.882 1:27.066 15
11 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 1:25.962 1:25.971 13
12 19 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:26.620 1:26.103 11
13 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:25.812 1:26.108 9
14 15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:27.222 1:26.739 16
15 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:26.298 1:26.768 17
16 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:26.245 1:31.407 15
17 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:26.270 12
18 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:27.239 10
19 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1:29.254 10
20 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1:29.342 12
21 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:29.858 10
22 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1:30.822 8
23 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1:32.978 11
24 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1:34.293 11
Liuzzi and Karthikeyan did not qualify after failing to meet the Q1 107 percent time of 1:31.266.
................

[ratty05]

LOL at the red bull videos explaining KERS, meanwhile they have a different system that will apparently be used at the start only.

[GPT]

Vettel is on another planet atm,what's worse for Mark is he didn't even qualify 2nd.

[maloo_]

Vettels lap was mega.

[6_litre_man]

My god vettel is quick, he is an amazing driver but he annoys me so much.

Once again webbers car is struggling for pace, i cant beloeve vettel is that much quicker and skilled than webber, after last years lastfew races im really startin to think they are giving vettel a more superior car than webber

[hoon69]

Results:

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Lewis Hamilton
3. Vitaly Petrov
4. Fernando Alonso
5. Mark Webber
6. Jenson Button
7. Sergio Perez
8. Kamui Kobayashi
9. Felipe Massa
10. Sebastian Buemi
11. Adrian Sutil
12. Paul Di Resta
13. Jaime Alguersuari
14. Nick Heidfeld
15. Jarno Trulli
16. Jerome d'Ambrosio
17. Timo Glock
DNF'D
18. Rubens Barrichello
19. Nico Rosberg
20. Heiki Kovalainen
21. Michael Schumacher
22. Pastor Maldonado

qualifying. was lack lustered to be honest :soap:

[Martin_D]

Lauda had the best advice for Weber just before the start of the race. He might know what he is talking about too.....

[VX2VESS]

My god vettel is quick, he is an amazing driver but he annoys me so much.

Once again webbers car is struggling for pace, i cant beloeve vettel is that much quicker and skilled than webber, after last years lastfew races im really startin to think they are giving vettel a more superior car than webber

could see that in the later races last year. why does one car not use up tyres and handle better should be identical setups

[ittwgn]

hi was interesting when hamilton before race did the walk thru of his garage setup showing the clear interaction between him and button as teammates no secrets face to face talk about each others setups and how to make them better!!!! cheers

[Delft Maloo]

Bloody boring race from all accounts, ferrari certainly shafted button.

[futurels1]

Button shafted himself, I understand the frustration being stuck behind the slower (wider) ferrari but massa had track position leaving button without a leg too stand on! He finished well considering.

[Delft Maloo]

Button shafted himself, I understand the frustration being stuck behind the slower (wider) ferrari but massa had track position leaving button without a leg too stand on! He finished well considering.

button should have yielded and ferrari knew this and play'd a double move by swapping their car positions to force button to let both of them through without even really giving him the opportunity correct the position(dont really think he would have though) to and then an early pitstop which forces button into a drive through penalty which then takes button off their threat list.
I just think it is a low act and abuse of the rules(smart for ferrari though).

[futurels1]

I dont think the thought of yielding even crossed buttons mind, ferrari as always will use the rules to there advantage. I bet kubicas recovery became a little more painful seeing what petrov (not a consistent driver to put it politely) could do in the car that kubica set up!

[Delft Maloo]

I dont think the thought of yielding even crossed buttons mind, ferrari as always will use the rules to there advantage. I bet kubicas recovery became a little more painful seeing what petrov (not a consistent driver to put it politely) could do in the car that kubica set up!

was a great drive from petrov and kubica is defiantly a better driver.
There's no way marks car is as quick as vettel's, vettel is a good driver but there is no way he has that much more talent over the whole field and his team mate.
Webber shouldnt have had that 3rd pitstop, he had a large advantage over petrov befor his pitstop and could have hung onto it over the remaining laps if the tyres did go real bad.

[RRossi]

I thought it was a great race but its only the start of the season,

Both Ferrari drivers gave the race depth and a little excitment, I know im biased, but the crowd in our area really loved the battle with Button and Massa.

As for Webber, it came across as a bit of a sore loser, when he pulled right over after the race and didnt even do a cool down lap, I over heard a few people saying he was really deijected after the race and just wanted to get out of there?

The Mclarens were a bit of a dark horse and really only came good when they used last years exhaust and floor, some said they were sand baging shit loads but I think they will be in the mix for the front runners.

The really sad team this race was the Merc GP with both nico and Michael retiring.

and along with HRT not even racing due to the new 107% rule, hopfully there will not be too many teams left out this season?

I think this year will be just as good as last year but there will be a few more teams in the mix and points will be spread out even more.

But one thing I take away from this GP is Sebastian Vet is a really nice guy, we exchanged a few words and had a laugh, he signed my program and then to see him on the track really flying was amazing, I think if he ever whent to Ferrari we would have another Schuey on our hands.

lets see what happens next race?

RR

WOW breaking news, Sauber have been disqualified, so Felipe Massa moves up to 7th!!

[Delft Maloo]

rrosssi i dont think hrt ever had any intention of actually racing regardless of the 107% lap time rule, it was probably cheaper for them to turn up and do 1-2 laps of the track and not race than it would have been if the fia had fined them if they didnt show up at all.

[BossV8]

so what was the reason for Webber pulling over at the end, was it a car problem or he just had the shytes? If he was just angry, he needs to either pull his finger out and drive more efficiently or smarter, or get the team to prep his car better than they are. He has the best team and car at his disposal, I can't imagine the team making Vettel's car that much faster.

[HSVREDSLED]

so what was the reason for Webber pulling over at the end, was it a car problem or he just had the shytes? If he was just angry, he needs to either pull his finger out and drive more efficiently or smarter, or get the team to prep his car better than they are. He has the best team and car at his disposal, I can't imagine the team making Vettel's car that much faster.

In the post race interview, Webber was asked why they never saw the KERS light come on. He explained that the team decided not to run with KERS. Hence...4th place.

In subsequent interviews Vettel and Lewis put KERS down to their success. No KERS means Webber was harder on tyres. DOuble whammy to slow him down.

Red bull are trying to squeeze Webber out in favour of their Golden boy Vettel.

[johno067]

As for Webber, it came across as a bit of a sore loser, when he pulled right over after the race and didnt even do a cool down lap, I over heard a few people saying he was really deijected after the race and just wanted to get out of there?

Rossi you might want to wait until a few interviews are over before you call Webber a sore loser. According to Horner, he was told to pull over as he was running on fumes. The cars have to make it back and be weighed, and together with the driver, make minimum wieght at the end of each race.

Regarding the difference between Webber and Vettel, there may be something amiss on Webbers car. We may have to wait and see once they have a good look at it to see if that's the case. Last year in qualy there was only usually a tenth between them, not 0.8. The fact that Webbers car was chewing both the softs and hards leads me to believe that something was up.

[VX2VESS]

"It's very unusual to see such a big difference between the guys (Vettel and Webber)," admitted Horner. "We need to have a very close look before Malaysia."

Red Bull admitted it did not use KERS at any time on Saturday or Sunday after Sebastian Vettel stormed to victory in the Australian Grand Prix on the weekend.
Finally quashing rumours that the RB7 features a 'mini-KERS' system that is used only for grand prix starts, team boss Christian Horner said the energy-recovery systems in Vettel and Mark Webber's cars were actually removed altogether after Friday practice.


"KERS has advantages and disadvantages. We elected not to use it," the Briton told the BBC.



"It didn't look like we needed it," Horner smiled.
"We ran it on Friday, but we felt it was a potential risk. It's quite a complicated technology and Adrian (Newey) being Adrian, he wouldn't compromise the aerodynamics of the car."

[VX2VESS]

Broadcaster James Allen, conducting the TV unilateral post-qualifying interviews in Australia said to Vettel: "Half a second faster than last year's pole position and you didn't even use the KERS button!" Vettel's answer did not address the KERS question but later, in the conference for the written media the world champion was asked if it was correct he had not been using KERS.
"We didn't use it in qualifying, that's correct," he said.
Pushed as to why, he added: "Not fully charged." Which may have been the truth but not the whole truth

The sobering reality for the rest was that, with his pole position margin to second-placed Lewis Hamilton 0.78s as things stood, if Vettel had used KERS it stood to be a full second or more. The pressing question, of course, was why Red Bull hadn't used it. And whether they would be vulnerable off the startline in the race?
Webber did not elaborate. "We didn't run it today for reasons we will keep inside the team," he said.
It has since emerged that the Red Bulls may only be fitted with a very small KERS intended to solve problems of vulnerability on the opening lap. Much of the weight and bulk of the other systems surround the rapid recharge battery packs that have to be run.
As McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh explained, they in themselves present cooling problems, which afflicted Hamilton, who finished his Melbourne qualifying lap with 40% of his KERS capacity unused.
"Lewis had a KERS hybrid failure which was actually a bit of a double whammy - not only do you lose the boost but it changes the brake balance too," Whitmarsh explained. There was a problem with the cooling system and if that happens the KERS batteries can cook themselves and go bang, so there's a safety mechanism that shuts it off."
The Red Bulls, meanwhile, may be fitted with a much smaller battery that is trickle charged and can only be used the once, most logically on the opening lap to defend against other cars with KERS systems. That would explain why there was no evidence of KERS being deployed by Red Bull in qualifying. It could be a neat and logical step for a team that expected its cars to start races at the front, but which preferred to do without the weight, packaging and aerodynamic compromises associated with a full-blown KERS package.

[hoon69]

2011 FORMULA 1 PETRONAS MALAYSIA GRAND PRIX
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:37.651 22
2 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:39.316 1.665 16
3 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:39.791 2.140 29
4 15 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1:40.377 2.726 23
5 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:40.443 2.792 31
6 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:40.453 2.802 22
7 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:40.525 2.874 6
8 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:40.581 2.930 21
9 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:40.601 2.950 23
10 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:40.646 2.995 29
11 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:40.734 3.083 21
12 18 Daniel Ricciardo STR-Ferrari 1:40.748 3.097 23
13 19 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:40.770 3.119 24
14 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:40.872 3.221 27
15 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:40.927 3.276 16
16 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1:41.620 3.969 21
17 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:41.627 3.976 18
18 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:41.642 3.991 24
19 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:42.154 4.503 18
20 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1:42.540 4.889 20
21 20 Davide Valsecchi Lotus-Renault 1:44.054 6.403 18
22 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1:45.228 7.577 20
23 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1:46.267 8.616 10
24 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:47.932 10.281 4


Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:36.876 24
2 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.881 0.005 30
3 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:37.010 0.134 23
4 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:37.090 0.214 30
5 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:38.088 1.212 26
6 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:38.089 1.213 31
7 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:38.565 1.689 25
8 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:38.570 1.694 16
9 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:38.583 1.707 27
10 19 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:38.846 1.970 31
11 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:38.968 2.092 25
12 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:39.187 2.311 30
13 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:39.267 2.391 17
14 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:39.398 2.522 29
15 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:39.603 2.727 34
16 15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:39.625 2.749 31
17 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:39.809 2.933 28
18 18 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:40.115 3.239 31
19 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:40.866 3.990 24
20 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1:41.890 5.014 19
21 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1:43.197 6.321 15
22 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1:43.991 7.115 14
23 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1:44.886 8.010 4
24 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth No time 0
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.340 11
2 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:36.630 0.290 16
3 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.762 0.422 14
4 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:37.115 0.775 17
5 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:37.175 0.835 14
6 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:37.284 0.944 11
7 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:37.297 0.957 17
8 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:37.762 1.422 12
9 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:38.059 1.719 18
10 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:38.300 1.960 20
11 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:38.307 1.967 20
12 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:38.448 2.108 17
13 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:38.464 2.124 16
14 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:38.597 2.257 15
15 18 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:38.665 2.325 14
16 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:38.681 2.341 16
17 19 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:38.716 2.376 14
18 15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:38.864 2.524 13
19 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1:39.260 2.920 19
20 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1:39.699 3.359 15
21 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1:41.215 4.875 17
22 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:41.414 5.074 18
23 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1:43.147 6.807 6
24 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1:43.383 7.043 11



Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1 1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:37.468 1:35.934 1:34.870 12
2 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.861 1:35.852 1:34.974 19
3 2 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:37.924 1:36.080 1:35.179 17
4 4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:37.033 1:35.569 1:35.200 15
5 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:36.897 1:36.320 1:35.802 14
6 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault 1:37.224 1:36.811 1:36.124 9
7 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:36.744 1:36.557 1:36.251 13
8 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:37.210 1:36.642 1:36.324 9
9 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:37.316 1:36.388 1:36.809 17
10 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:36.994 1:36.691 1:36.820 13
11 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:36.904 1:37.035 12
12 18 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:37.693 1:37.160 13
13 19 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:37.677 1:37.347 12
14 15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:38.045 1:37.370 12
15 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:38.163 1:37.496 15
16 17 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:37.759 1:37.528 10
17 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:37.693 1:37.593 9
18 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1:38.276 8
19 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1:38.645 8
20 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1:38.791 8
21 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:40.648 8
22 25 Jerome d'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1:41.001 7
23 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1:41.549 7
24 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1:42.574 7
Q1 107% Time 1:43.516

[maloo_]

Red Bull gives you flexible wings.

[6_litre_man]

Well once again webber has a f.u.c.k.e.d car, how conveniant his kers fails at the start of the warm up lap and vettels dosnt, webber gets swamped off the line and at first lap is back in 9th. Webber is driving himself back into the race, doing some really good lap times, all credit to him. Im really startin to get the shits with red bull though with the fact webber continues to keep getting a car broken in some way or another.

[Souljah]

I just caught the last 2 laps and noticed when they were onboard with Webber why he wasn't using his KERS.

[ittwgn]

turned out alright on a 4 stopper pity he couldn,t get heidfeld when he locked up second last lap vettel already nearly has a race win lead very close for second one dnf can change everything!!!!!!

[6_litre_man]

He wasnt using it cause it broke before the race started, vettels sidnt but was told by his crew not to use kers with about 20laps to go, who knows what the hell red bull is up to lol

[nnickn]

Kers broken on warm up lap and the wing thing was playing up. He was also on a 4 stop strategy. Hats off to him he did real well with what he had and finished 4th.

[jc_sv8]

Just watched the race after a very busy weekend...

How many frequent flyer points does Petrov get for this?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52092000/jpg/_52092029_petrov_flying.jpg

[QIKMIK]

This sort of captures Petrov's experience:

http://www.users.on.net/~mjwt/petrov-knight.gif

Re the rest of the race, good effort by Mark without KERS.

From markwebber.com


Mark put in a gritty performance in the Malaysian Grand Prix to finish in fourth place and set the fastest lap of the race. But after starting third, he was immediately put on the back foot following a technical problem.
“The clutch didn’t behave itself initially,” says Mark. “That cost me a bit of time, but the biggest problem was KERS. When I pushed the KERS button as we left the grid, nothing happened and I was swamped. I ended the first lap in 10th place.”
The early laps saw Mark battle with Kamui Kobayashi and Michael Schumacher, but he quickly altered his strategy from three stops to four.
“Despite being very quick through the corners,” says Mark, “it was going to be very difficult for me to pass people with KERS because they were so quick in a straight-line. I had to do something different to make progress and that meant changing the strategy.”
Mark was very quick on his fresh sets of tyres and climbed as high as fourth, before his final stop dropped him back to eighth.
“I drove every lap on the limit,” says Mark. “I’d like to have stayed out a bit longer before making my final pitstop, but I was losing too much time behind Lewis [Hamilton] and I had to come in. But my car was very fast in my final stint and I was able to make quick progress.”
Part of that progress was an audacious overtaking manoeuvre around the outside of Felipe Massa at Turn 1 on lap 50 and he crossed the finish line 1.3s behind Nick Heidfeld in third place.
“As the race progressed,” says Mark, “it became harder to overtake due to the amount of marbles off-line. That’s why I passed [Felipe] Massa around the outside. It was a risky move, but it paid off because there was more grip on the outside of the track than the inside.
“Once I was ahead of Felipe, I thought I could finish on the podium because I was much faster than Heidfeld through the corners. But the he was very quick on the straights and I couldn’t get a run on him.”
Tenth to fourth was still a great result, particularly when you consider how much the Pirelli tyres have changed the nature of the races this year. There were a total of 63 pitstops at Sepang, compared with 22 last year.
“It was quite hard for us to understand what was going on in the race,” says Mark, “so I can understand why some people at home might have thought it was difficult to follow. More pitstops doesn’t always lead to better racing; you want the race to take place on the track and not in the pits.”
Mark is now staying in Malaysia for a couple of days before moving to Shanghai in the middle of the week for next weekend’s Chinese Grand Prix. He finished second there in 2009 and is hoping for another good result on Sunday.
“There’s no doubt that Seb [Vettel] has got off to a great start in the championship,” says Mark. “But I’m confident that the car will be competitive in Shanghai and I’ll be pushing hard. I’ll keep boxing; I’ll keep swinging.”


Mick

[johno067]

This sort of captures Petrov's experience:

http://www.users.on.net/~mjwt/petrov-knight.gif

Re the rest of the race, good effort by Mark without KERS.

From markwebber.com



Mick

Cheers for the summary qikmik. Was probably the drive of the day from Mark, (taking nothing away from Vettel, as he still had to make no mistakes).

Hopefully he has no mechanical issues and can take the fight to his team mate and the Macas, who seem to be getting closer and closer each race to Red Bull.

[futurels1]

Chinese GP qualy!!! Mark Webber 18th WTF!!!

Ferrari went out on the valuable soft compound to make up for their performance deficit, why didnt Webber?

Why is webber .800 slower than vettel! Really angry about this! (can you tell)

[6_litre_man]

He didnt go out on the option tyre cause he thought the har tyre would get him there and it should of, it got vettel and the maclarens into Q2.

The thing im pissed off about is why red bull isnt helping mark, there is no way that they are giving vettel and webber equal cars, marks keeps breaking and vettels dosnt, something dosnt seem right to me:soap:

[futurels1]

in all fairness too vettel he had a lot of reliability issues last year and he still got the job done.

webbers race engineers made a poor decision with his tyres, BUT vettel went through on the hards.

I cant see how team red bull benefits from not giving the two drivers equal cars?

[Martin_D]

The thing im pissed off about is why red bull isnt helping mark, there is no way that they are giving vettel and webber equal cars, marks keeps breaking and vettels dosnt, something dosnt seem right to me:soap:

So Red Bull invest around $200 million a year into Webbers race program, and then deliberately sabotage themselves because he is an Australian and they think its funny to upset some guys on a forum by blowing this money?

If you knew - anything - about racing you would know 99% of the problem is in Webbers mental approach. Simply he is being owned because he cant cop the pressure at the pointy end. He has never won a championship in anything, not Formula Ford, nothing. The Alonsos, Hamiltons, Buttons and Vettels will - always - chew him up and spit him out. Sad but true :teach:

[BanPC]

So Red Bull invest around $200 million a year into Webbers race program, and then deliberately sabotage themselves because he is an Australian and they think its funny to upset some guys on a forum by blowing this money?

If you knew - anything - about racing you would know 99% of the problem is in Webbers mental approach. Simply he is being owned because he cant cop the pressure at the pointy end. He has never won a championship in anything, not Formula Ford, nothing. The Alonsos, Hamiltons, Buttons and Vettels will - always - chew him up and spit him out. Sad but true :teach:

And you know this after spending how many hours with the man?

Mark Webber will be presented by the media in a form that will get them more reaction.... even today in qualifying they jumped on him asking about weighing in as if he was blaming that for the performance when in fact he was politely checking what was required.

He wants to perform, he wants to achieve, mark is one of the nicest, comitted, dedicated and pleasant people I have had the pleasure to be around....

So STFU... he may not have won in Formula Ford, but if you knew anything about racing you wold know it gets to a certain level then it's the size of daddy's cheque book, there are several guys I know that would make the current flock of V8 supercar guys look pedestrian but they simply ran out of $'s...

If you want some inspiration research his journey. READ SOME HERE (http://www.theracedriver.com/2010/10/key-moments-people-in-the-racing-career-of-mark-webber/)

[seldo]

So Red Bull invest around $200 million a year into Webbers race program, and then deliberately sabotage themselves because he is an Australian and they think its funny to upset some guys on a forum by blowing this money?

If you knew - anything - about racing you would know 99% of the problem is in Webbers mental approach. Simply he is being owned because he cant cop the pressure at the pointy end. He has never won a championship in anything, not Formula Ford, nothing. The Alonsos, Hamiltons, Buttons and Vettels will - always - chew him up and spit him out. Sad but true :teach::lol: Martin - you are really too tough on Webber, as are most key-board jockeys.
I suspect that after they've fixed the car issues that he was obviously suffering today, esp no KERS, despite having stuffed-up on Q1 tyre choice, I think he'll come back and do ok tomorow, just as he did in Malaysia last w/e. Don't forget, I think he's the only one with a full complement of soft tyres, so he'll cut through the field and be at the pointy end come podium time. Can he win ? - Hmmm - tough call, but I do think he can get a podium, although it will be at the risk of more pit stops than the others.
On current performances, there's no doubt that his correct position is probably 2nd in the field. Vettel is obviously getting the better part of the team's resources, and there's no doubt the boy has a real gift - he is a real talent and a notch up on Webber (and the whole rest of the field.)
But if you analysed the whole field, there's Vettel......and then the rest . I don't think Mark is any better or worse than any of the next 5 or 6.
The season will slowly play-out the real truth.
Meanwhile.....back to the keyboard. Tallyho! ;)

[6_litre_man]

All im saying is a team the size of redbull shoul not have the performance difference between there two cars. There is no way there should be that big a difference between the two cars. Yes vettel is a freak behind the wheel but webber has shown he can beat the best. Silverstone last year they gave vettel the new better front wing and webber came out and smashed them so you cant say its all in webbers head.

[jc_sv8]

Webber is carrying about 10-15Kg more than Vettel and is about 4 inches taller.

So if they say 1Kg is worth .1 of a second per lap then there's the difference...

Webber is actually quicker. Most F1 drivers resemble jockeys so to stick a 6.1" block in a wheeled rocket ship is quite a feat!

And you're right most blokes never make it before the cheque book runs out, hopefully Danny Ric makes the grade before his dad's money runs out. He certainly has the speed to make the grade and team WA are behind him!

[Delft Maloo]

jc i think you will find its every 10kgs of weight adds aprox .1sec to a lap time:).

[6_litre_man]

But im pretty sure the cars have weights distrubuted throughout them so even if mark is heavier the pull out the equivalent weight so that overall weight of car and drivers would be the same, if not the same they would be pretty bloody close

[jc_sv8]

Oops yea, missed my decimal place!

But still read this article on KERS and it looks like it's a jockeys race again.
http://formula1.about.com/od/drivers/a/Driver_Weights.htm

And I know the article is a couple of years old but IMHO it's still relevant.

[seldo]

Oops yea, missed my decimal place!

But still read this article on KERS and it looks like it's a jockeys race again.
http://formula1.about.com/od/drivers/a/Driver_Weights.htm

And I know the article is a couple of years old but IMHO it's still relevant.That article is bullshit. The rules state that the car and driver must weigh no less than 640kg at any stage during a race, NOT no more than 640kg. And to the best of my knowledge there has never been a maximum weight limit, only a minimum

[Martin_D]

All im saying is a team the size of redbull shoul not have the performance difference between there two cars. There is no way there should be that big a difference between the two cars.

Correct - there isnt, which is the point :)

[LuisS]

A team that wins the previous year’s championship , and the first three races still having problems with “the #2″ driver’s car ?

1 race , yes , 2 races , maybe but 3 in a row?

This is a disgusting way to try and end the career of a very good driver , regardless of his bad luck / substandard performances ( which one now begins to wonder & understand "why" and how they came to be)

I reckon the Silverstone "wing-gate" fracas was just the tip of the iceberg.

[maloo_]

Vettel would have done that lap on the supersofts tyres which are over a second quicker than the other tyres.

[6_litre_man]

Vettel would have done that lap on the supersofts tyres which are over a second quicker than the other tyres.

if your talking about his lap in q3 yeah he did, all teams will run the supersoft in q2 and q3 but all the top teams wont usually run in it q1. the maclarens didnt and neither did vettel and made it through q1 no worries, webber shouldnt have had a problem.

[kayman]

if your talking about his lap in q3 yeah he did, all teams will run the supersoft in q2 and q3 but all the top teams wont usually run in it q1. the maclarens didnt and neither did vettel and made it through q1 no worries, webber shouldnt have had a problem.

except that webber had no KERS and the rest did.

What is KERS worth around the Chinese GP circuit? With that 1.2km straight it has to be worth quite a bit.

[LuisS]

except that webber had no KERS and the rest did.

What is KERS worth around the Chinese GP circuit? With that 1.2km straight it has to be worth quite a bit.

.5 or so sec , and don't forget , his loyal team , seeing his KERS wasn't working also decided it would be best for him to try do his lap on the hard tyre , approx 1- 1.5 sec a lap slower :bow:

[michaels1v8]

Was disappointing to say the least. But who calls the shots in these situations? Is the final decision what the driver wants or what the team wants for the driver? Whoever's decision it was they seriously lacked judgement. Sending him out on those tyres without kers was a big gamble and it didnt pay off.

[planetdavo]

Correct - there isnt, which is the point :)

But they do have a certain Dr Helmut Marko, who clearly favoured a Mr Juan Pablo Montoya over Mr Craig Lowndes in Formula 3000 in the 90's, and who last year backed Vettel in a frankly disgraceful decision every fan of F1 will remember very, very well...:spew:
So, things might be "equal", yet they aren't my friend. History is repeating itself.

[jc_sv8]

That article is bullshit. The rules state that the car and driver must weigh no less than 640kg at any stage during a race, NOT no more than 640kg. And to the best of my knowledge there has never been a maximum weight limit, only a minimum

Yea, there is a minimum weight but there's nothing in the rules saying you can't run under during the race. After the race they are weighed and that's where they must have the minimum weight of 640Kgs. The cool down lap is where they pick up as much crap on the tyres as possible to grab a few Kgs back...

It would be a fine line with 150Kgs of fuel, driver loosing around 4Kg, drink bottles being emptied, tyre wear.

Looks like 10Kgs is worth .4 of a second at this track.

[RARASV8]

the best drive with out dought was WEBBER

Garry

[FLASH-0889]

Wat a final last 10laps from webber! Amazing driving!

[jc_sv8]

Hats off to him, what an amazing drive from 18th !!!

:goodjob:

[BanPC]

Yeah umm was there someone talking about webber having no ability under pressure or something??? What a brilliant drive from a brilliant driver...

[6_litre_man]

Well done Mark Webber, what a fantastic drive. 18th to 3rd. Podium finish. So Martin_D. You say hell always gettin eaten for breakfast by the others but hmm seesms like there is nothing wrong with his mental approach.
What a surprise that he finally gets a car that goes through a race without a problem and goes from 18th to 3rd. Absolutley nothing wrong with his mental approach. Imagine if he started further up the grid.

[ittwgn]

:):)legend webber maybe saving fresh rubber as hamilton did is the go !!!!if only race went another 5 laps :goodjob::bow:

[HazzaHSV]

If you knew - anything - about racing you would know 99% of the problem is in Webbers mental approach. Simply he is being owned because he cant cop the pressure at the pointy end. He has never won a championship in anything, not Formula Ford, nothing. The Alonsos, Hamiltons, Buttons and Vettels will - always - chew him up and spit him out. Sad but true :teach:Never heard such useless tall poppy syndrome dribble in my life. Utter BS is all that's needed here. He was one race from winning the ultimate racing championship in the world and you whinge about him not winning a Formula Ford championship. :rofl: Logic would take his grand prix wins, and 3rd in the world anyday, over even a hundred FF 'championships'. Seems some here were too quick to put the boot in, and predict he would never win a race, or feature in a top car because he was such a crappy driver. I remember you saying it many times as if you were an oracle or something, well you were wrong on both counts. Anyone with any respect would be eating humble pie not coming out with more BS.

[maloo_]

Drive of the day for Webber didnt see any of those mentioned drivers chewing him up today.

[QIKMIK]

+1 to to all the post-race posts. What an inspirational drive from Mark. He was untouchable at the end there. All the blokes at work were on the edge of their seats.

Top job, Mark!

Mick

[seldo]

:lol: Martin - you are really too tough on Webber, as are most key-board jockeys.
... I think he'll come back and do ok tomorow, ... so he'll cut through the field and be at the pointy end come podium time. Can he win ? - Hmmm - tough call, but I do think he can get a podium, although it will be at the risk of more pit stops than the others.
... ;)Well, well, well Martin?
Webber did half ok for a number 2 driver who apparently can't drive and has never even won a Formula Ford championship. Was plainly the drive of the day.
Now - as you were saying...??
I rest my case...:)

[johno067]

Well guys we have another Webber basher in Martin_D have we. We did have one other basher (mgygto or whatever his name was) who would always say Webber has no talent, will never win a GP bla bla bla. Have not heard a great deal from him here since Webbers 2010 efforts.

"If you knew anything about racing......", you would know that Webber would not have stayed in Formula 1 as long as he has if you knew anything about racing matie. Chewed up and spat out by Alonso, Button etc.......mmmm, lets see how many former world champions he PASSED during that epic race.

Epic drive by webber, and the pass on Shuey was something to behold. Had the fastest race lap by a mile over Hamilton who had the 2nd fastest lap, and finished behind his WDC team mate by only a couple of seconds, after starting 18th.

Jam it you Webber bashers:rofl:

This clip on the tube will probably be taken down by FOM, but here are some of the moves by a guy with no talent and someone who cannot cope with the pressure

YouTube - F1 China GP 2011 Mark Webber Show from P18 to P3

[Martin_D]

Yes a great drive by Webber in the actual race Seldo
Pity he screwed up what should have been an easy win with brain fade in qualifying.
World Champions dont do that :teach:

[OPTIMUS]

i dont think you can just blame webber for not using a set of softies that was team mistake, just like the KERS not working is a team problem he drove the crap outta it hes not a world champion your correct but hopefully he will be.

[planetdavo]

Yes a great drive by Webber in the actual race Seldo
Pity he screwed up what should have been an easy win with brain fade in qualifying.
World Champions dont do that :teach:

I can name two previous world champions that attempted to ram other cars off the road to try and win the championship within the last 20 years. Guess World Champions don't do that either, right? :confused:
C'mon Martin, Mark Webber has made you choke on your words. None of us truly know what led to that hard tyre decision, but it's nieve to think that Mark had the main vote. He may have agreed with it, he may have suggested it, or he may have spat the dummy over being "forced" to do it, but he is part of a team of around 300 people, and it takes the whole team to win (or lose) a championship in F1...:teach:
At the end of the day he did everything he could to achieve the result he did, in a car with terrible KERS reliability. A true mark of a champion is their ability to perform when the chips are down, not just when everything goes your way...:yup:

[jc_sv8]

Three, if you count Vettel ramming Mark off in Turkey... :rofl:

[Martin_D]

A true mark of a champion is their ability to perform when the chips are down, not just when everything goes your way...:yup:

Sure is Davo. Go back to the Korean GP last year. No pressure, no one around, no car failure Webber drove it off into the wall all by himself and cost us all the first Aussie champion since AJ back in 1980.

That was the championship defining moment of 2010

[planetdavo]

Sure is Davo. Go back to the Korean GP last year. No pressure, no one around, no car failure Webber drove it off into the wall all by himself and cost us all the first Aussie champion since AJ back in 1980.

That was the championship defining moment of 2010

Anyone can name one or two incidents for any driver. All run close to the edge. If you don't, you lose.
If my memory is correct, Vettel ran straight into the back of Jenson last year. Reckon that's a bit worse than Mark binning a car on a damp track in Korea...:yup:
For Mark to still perform when the Helmut clearly undermines him in favour of the more marketable (for Red Bull product) Vettel is amazing.

[Martin_D]

If Marko didnt want Webber there at Red Bull he would be out the door before his feet brushed the doormat. Make no mistake about it, they have more than enough money and resources at RBR to counter the Webber family in a court of law over a broken contract. They obviously want him around

Fact is he does a reasonable job other than constantly whining about the car and the way he is treated - and that constant negativity and reliance on the underdog passcard is what will cost him the drive possibly before this year is out. Vettels thing was a ticking time bomb all last year blowing up on a good many occassions, did you ever hear him whinging?

[6_litre_man]

Hey Martin, Can i just ask you bluntly, why do you find every opportunity to put Mark Webber down as a driver? Apart from you saying yes a great drive from webber, everything you have said about him has been putting him down.

Matt

[Martin_D]

How have I put him down?
Other than stating he doesnt have the experience at winning championships to win a world championship, and his resume backs this up. There are - no - junior formulae wins, not even an Aussie Formula Ford champ win. The fact that he pulled the right strings to get to F1 is incredible and a feat all on its own. It would be great to see him win, which makes last years missed opportunity a downer for him.

[planetdavo]

If Marko didnt want Webber there at Red Bull he would be out the door before his feet brushed the doormat. Make no mistake about it, they have more than enough money and resources at RBR to counter the Webber family in a court of law over a broken contract. They obviously want him around

Fact is he does a reasonable job other than constantly whining about the car and the way he is treated - and that constant negativity and reliance on the underdog passcard is what will cost him the drive possibly before this year is out. Vettels thing was a ticking time bomb all last year blowing up on a good many occassions, did you ever hear him whinging?

Vettel didn't need to "whinge". Helmut was his wingman. :teach:
Vettel has been groomed for many years for this in this team. There's no doubt at all that Mark was never meant to be so close to Seb last year. That was all a wee bit uncomfortable for management to deal with, and it spilled out in public from time to time, from both sides.
Not bad for a number two driver really...:)

[6_litre_man]

If you knew - anything - about racing you would know 99% of the problem is in Webbers mental approach. Simply he is being owned because he cant cop the pressure at the pointy end.

oh ok martin so the above statement isnt putting him down at all, saying its all in his head and cant cope with pressure, when the weekends race clearly proves you wrong.

Again silverstone last year, was given the old wing cause they favorured vettel, he cracked it cause he was told he would have it, drove the arse off the car and won. His mental approach would have been, im going to win to prove you guys wrong. The weekends race he would have been thinking right, i have 3 good sets of soft tyres, i can make something of this race and he did, got himself on the podium. Saying its all in his head was a stupid comment, you cant tell me he has had no reason to complain about his car since the start of this season and for a bit of last season aswell. And being owned cause he cant cop pressure, time to eat your words mate, pretty sure he owned everyone else on sunday lol

[rgmast]

oh ok martin so the above statement isnt putting him down at all, saying its all in his head and cant cope with pressure, when the weekends race clearly proves you wrong.

Again silverstone last year, was given the old wing cause they favorured vettel, he cracked it cause he was told he would have it, drove the arse off the car and won. His mental approach would have been, im going to win to prove you guys wrong. The weekends race he would have been thinking right, i have 3 good sets of soft tyres, i can make something of this race and he did, got himself on the podium. Saying its all in his head was a stupid comment, you cant tell me he has had no reason to complain about his car since the start of this season and for a bit of last season aswell. And being owned cause he cant cop pressure, time to eat your words mate, pretty sure he owned everyone else on sunday lol

So he got motivated in those 2 races why cant he do it in every race
He needs to crack the shits and get angry more often :)

[seldo]

Whilst I have been giving Martin a bit of :stick: over his denigration of Webber, I must admit that he has a point, and in fact I have also said the same thing - Webber needs a bit more mongrel in him.
His wins and performance at say the British GP last year with the inferior front wing and again at China last weekend, show that, when the chips are down he can dig deep and pull out the performance that (some of us ;) ) believe he' s capable of.
But - he does need to do it more consistently.
A classic example is Michael Schumacher. Schuie didn't win 7 world Championships just because he's a great driver (and he is/was...) but he is absolutely totally ruthless and would put you in the fence without even raising an eyebrow. Ditto Senna and Prost. There's absolutely no doubt that Webber has the ability, but he is just a little too laid back and needs to get fired up over some situation to show his best.
But I still contend that he is one the best.

[VYSHSV8]

Whilst I have been giving Martin a bit of :stick: over his denigration of Webber, I must admit that he has a point, and in fact I have also said the same thing - Webber needs a bit more mongrel in him.
His wins and performance at say the British GP last year with the inferior front wing and again at China last weekend, show that, when the chips are down he can dig deep and pull out the performance that (some of us ;) ) believe he' s capable of.
But - he does need to do it more consistently.
A classic example is Michael Schumacher. Schuie didn't win 7 world Championships just because he's a great driver (and he is/was...) but he is absolutely totally ruthless and would put you in the fence without even raising an eyebrow. Ditto Senna and Prost. There's absolutely no doubt that Webber has the ability, but he is just a little too laid back and needs to get fired up over some situation to show his best.
But I still contend that he is one the best.

So to put it in Simple terms

No More Mr niceguy :):) but keep it in the bounds of the rules

[6_litre_man]

So he got motivated in those 2 races why cant he do it in every race
He needs to crack the shits and get angry more often :)

i was just using those two as an example to show its not in his head, monaco last year he won purely cause he was the best driver on the day, got the car to work better for him than anyone else could, his other wins have been just cause he was the better driver, yeah alright he drives good when hes pissed off but thats not the only time he drives well.


Whilst I have been giving Martin a bit of :stick: over his denigration of Webber, I must admit that he has a point, and in fact I have also said the same thing - Webber needs a bit more mongrel in him.
His wins and performance at say the British GP last year with the inferior front wing and again at China last weekend, show that, when the chips are down he can dig deep and pull out the performance that (some of us ;) ) believe he' s capable of.
But - he does need to do it more consistently.
A classic example is Michael Schumacher. Schuie didn't win 7 world Championships just because he's a great driver (and he is/was...) but he is absolutely totally ruthless and would put you in the fence without even raising an eyebrow. Ditto Senna and Prost. There's absolutely no doubt that Webber has the ability, but he is just a little too laid back and needs to get fired up over some situation to show his best.
But I still contend that he is one the best.

True schumacher wouldnt raise an eybrow to put you in the fence, he was and still is do everything you can by all means to win or be as close to the front as possible, one of the best things about webber which i respect from him over every other driver is his fairness in the sport, he will race and will race hard against the other drivers but he would never crash someone out or run them off the road to put himself ahead, in my eyes theres nothing worse than doing that and its just bad sportsmanship, signs of sore loser, webber isnt any of that.
But your right seldo, he is definetly one of the best drivers going around in formula one. I have believed that he could already have been world champion at least once maybe more times already had he been given the opportunity in his earlier years, was always sticking it to the big teams with his teams but never had the car under him.

[SAMCRO]

Mark Webber I AM PROUD OF YOU!!!!!
Why can't we support someone who's from Australia and doing an outstanding job?? Jealous perhaps??
He's doing pretty good for himself I'd say!!

[johno067]

Sure is Davo. Go back to the Korean GP last year. No pressure, no one around, no car failure Webber drove it off into the wall all by himself and cost us all the first Aussie champion since AJ back in 1980.

That was the championship defining moment of 2010

You might recall Martin that Alonso, yes that's right mate, the two time world champion, performed a similar mistake to Webbers in one of the earlier races of 2010. No pressure on Alonso, no one around, no car failure ALONSO drove it off into the wall all by himself. Cost himself the world championship (he was 2nd in the end to Vettel by a few points). All drivers, even world champions, make mistakes all on their own.

Mate you are pretty high and mighty tapping away with your keyboard, possibly the worse armchair critic I have seen on here. Recon you could do better? Webber personally done something to you that we are unaware of???

[Martin_D]

Whilst I have been giving Martin a bit of :stick: over his denigration of Webber, I must admit that he has a point, and in fact I have also said the same thing - Webber needs a bit more mongrel in him.

Webber struggles to overtake cleanly in a racing situation, particularly when leaving the pits on fresh tyres. He seems to lack mostly to Vettel in that department who always seems to get done in a few corners what takes Mark a few laps.

[planetdavo]

All this talk about Webber's "ability"...
One thing I don't think has really been discussed is the natural fact that most drivers, as they mature into their 30's, simply don't take the "win it or bin it" risks like the 20 somethings. Basically, they want to live not die.
Happens in all motorsport. Perhaps refer to Craig Lowndes for a similar situation in V8 Supercars. Just that one percent more and he'd be regularly winning, rather than j-dub.
What would be good in the Chinese GP example is if we could replay it but with Webber on pole and Vettel in 18th. I can almost promise you a different Vettel would have been on the radio, attempting to get his slightly bent up car to something less than 3rd position in the end...

[Martin_D]

Too much oversimplification Davo. One of the reasons Webber was so fast in the race was due to - not - burning tyres up in Q2 and Q3. Possibly (definitely?) a smart strategy.
We all want to see Webber win consistently, and IMO there is nothing wrong with some critique of how he goes about it.

[VX2VESS]

Webber is an ok driver, needs to watch what he says. His negative team comments will get him kicked out more than his driving will.

He also drives better when he is angry, well more chance of winning as he gets more aggressive.

[black_friday]

Webber could have already been a world champion had he gone to Renault rather than Williams back in the day...

Is it crazy to think that a few 'mechanical issues' and poor results for mark at the start of the season would create a nice buffer to seb so that there is no repeat of last seasons dramas when both were a chance for the world championship?

[planetdavo]

Too much oversimplification Davo. One of the reasons Webber was so fast in the race was due to - not - burning tyres up in Q2 and Q3. Possibly (definitely?) a smart strategy.
We all want to see Webber win consistently, and IMO there is nothing wrong with some critique of how he goes about it.

Argue if you want Martin, but it's simple and obvious fact that as drivers reach the age they start getting married and having kids, they start losing their edge, and the new kids start beating them.
Re the race, good strategy yes, but it also needed a driver that can move on from the huge disappointment of quali and start headstrong from 18th in the race with crap hard tyres whilst all the crap cars around you are on the much faster softs holding you up immensely.
A weaker driver would simply have expected a sh!t afternoon, and got the results to suit.
Mark Webber does get wacked a bit too much by the tall poppy stick in Australia unfortunately. As we've seen in this thread, it doesn't matter what minor miracles he pulls off, there will always be things people looking from the outside finding major things wrong with him. That's quite a bit above "critique". It's just knocking him down.

[Martin_D]

Argue if you want Martin, but it's simple and obvious fact that as drivers reach the age they start getting married and having kids, they start losing their edge, and the new kids start beating them.

Then F1 would be all new kids.....its not you know :)

[planetdavo]

Then F1 would be all new kids.....its not you know :)

You know very well what I mean Martin. You are just stirring. :)

[Martin_D]

F1 is about reflexes, eyesight, ability and brains
All the Sennas and Schumachers of the world had an equal serve of the 3

[planetdavo]

F1 is about reflexes, eyesight, ability and brains
All the Sennas and Schumachers of the world had an equal serve of the 3

And brain fade...:train:
Remember my earlier comment about world champions barging people off the road as an acceptable way to become a world champion?
As much as I admired Schumachers abilities, he did always have notably inferior team mates that weren't too much of a risk of stealing "his" points, and when Senna had a good team mate in Prost, well, hello fireworks!
Mark Webber got too close to Seb Vettel. Clear as day that he was employed to perform well enough to take points of the other drivers, but not well enough to take them off Seb. When he got too close the Helmut stepped in to protect "his" man.
F1 teams often don't like two equal drivers. Look at McLaren having Hamilton and Alonso. So far it's working ok with Hamilton/Button, but it's a rare exception.

[seldo]

..... one of the best things about webber which i respect from him over every other driver is his fairness in the sport, he will race and will race hard against the other drivers but he would never crash someone out or run them off the road to put himself ahead, in my eyes theres nothing worse than doing that and its just bad sportsmanship, signs of sore loser, webber isnt any of that.
But your right seldo, he is definetly one of the best drivers going around in formula one. .....Sadly, in Formula 1 , fairness gets zero points. NONE! Winning is the only thing that counts...be it fair or not..

[Martin_D]

Sadly, in Formula 1 , fairness gets zero points. NONE! Winning is the only thing that counts...be it fair or not..

Seldo can I suggest another sport for you to follow? -
Get a group together, join hands, and....
p3MiD_U4CHQ

[seldo]

Seldo can I suggest another sport for you to follow? -
Get a group together, join hands, and....
:lol: Surely you're not disagreeing? It's a simple observation that those who take no prisoners are the ones who succeed, and Webber's been a bit too "nice" over the years to really enjoy the success that comes from being ruthless.
Now - sing along with me... :)

[Martin_D]

No you are right Seldo....and with this analysis of F1 in mind....
I am going to make some calls tonight and see if someone can let the Crows win an AFL game this year because sports not all about winning, its about nice guys, and cmon they should win a match because they are South Aussies, give em a break eh before the guys that want to win come through and ruin everything with the premiership :lol:

[rgmast]

No you are right Seldo....and with this analysis of F1 in mind....
I am going to make some calls tonight and see if someone can let the Crows win an AFL game this year because sports not all about winning, its about nice guys, and cmon they should win a match because they are South Aussies, give em a break eh before the guys that want to win come through and ruin everything with the premiership :lol:

You should of made that call last week . Hate losing to the power :jester:

[justin_d]

I don't know about Webber. I'd say he's in the top 50% of F1 drivers and he's as tough as nails but he just seems to find a way to chump up instead of putting the nail in the coffin against his opponents. Be interesting if he told the team to scrap KERS as it'd save him weight and fuel whilst probably giving him a lot more reliability!

[RARASV8]

No you are right Seldo....and with this analysis of F1 in mind....
I am going to make some calls tonight and see if someone can let the Crows win an AFL game this year because sports not all about winning, its about nice guys, and cmon they should win a match because they are South Aussies, give em a break eh before the guys that want to win come through and ruin everything with the premiership :lol:

CROWS won back to back

so what ya saying:1peek:

been a webber fan since formula ford days, don't know why i remember but i do. plus steven stoddart got some signed stuff for me back in 2000, i think his old man owned a formula 1 team the next year:bow:
still got the "T SHIRTS"

Garry

[Wozz]

First year watching the F1's and I can't believe I didn't start watching it earlier, so much fun. Had to tell the GF to come after the race as I didn't want to miss anything, lol/.

[GPT]

First year watching the F1's and I can't believe I didn't start watching it earlier, so much fun. Had to tell the GF to come after the race as I didn't want to miss anything, lol/.

Why ,you can still watch the race and f.. ahhh:love2::stick:

[jc_sv8]

I'd say he's in the top 50% of F1 drivers

I think he's a little higher than 50% !!! :)

[6_litre_man]

Well the new track in india has ben officially named and the design is below.


"The track that will host the inaugural Indian Grand Prix later this year has been officially named the Buddh International Circuit (BIC), organisers have announced. The 5.14-kilometre, Herman Tilke-designed venue will host its first F1 race on October 30.

The name has been chosen with reference to the area where the track is situated - Gautam Budh Nagar district, near Greater Noida, around 40 kilometres from New Delhi. The stylized ‘B’ of the circuit’s logo stands for ‘Buddh’ and for ‘Bharat'."

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww190/per51c/Indiatracklayout.jpg

Cheers
Matt

[89'King]

i like it.. a lot of high speed areas should provide some good racing.. imo

[6_litre_man]

Mark Webber has qualified 2nd for tomorrow nights grand prix, Vettel took pole for the 4th straight race this year, despite crashing his car in first practice and missing practice 2 completly.


Red Bull’s Sebastian Vettel took his fourth consecutive pole position during qualifying in Turkey on Saturday afternoon, beating team mate Mark Webber by a full four-tenths of a second. Mercedes driver Nico Rosberg took third on the grid.

Fourth fastest was Lewis Hamilton, ahead of Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso and McLaren team mate Jenson Button.

Heres hoping Mark has another incredible race and smashes Vettel, one can hope.

Cheers
Matt

[hoon69]

http://www.ozracingwrap.com/images/stories/j-admin-mobile/IMAGE-0_2011-05-09-032621-+0000.jpg
Red Bull took a strong one-two in the Turkish Grand Prix putting the ghosts of 2010 to bed as Sebastian Vettel extended his Championship lead with a pole to flag win.

Mark Webber had no answer to the Germans pace and after a slightly slow start found his early race was somewhat compromised with Nico Rosberg in the Mercedes jumping him off the line. Webber was able to pass the German on track but by that stage Vettel had a handy lead built up

A late race battle followed with the surprising Feranndo Alonso, who was having the best outing for the Italian team so far this season, until Webber was able to pass the former Champion to claim second.

Once again the race was marked by plenty of on track passing as the combination of DRS and KERS came to the fore. Indeed the DRS zone was perhaps a little to long with a number of passes completed well before the braking zone using DRS. Prior ti its introduction The FIA were at pains to state the aim of the system was not to guarantee a overtake but merely to assist.

Webber was relieved after the race to have fought back for second after a late fight with Fernado Alonso who claimed the first podium for Ferrari of the season. “It was good to get second place – and a relief to finish there and not third. In the end it was a good fight with Fernando, you lose a bit of time when you’re into each other like that, but it turned out okay and I got him back in the end.

"For the first stop, the team pitted me earlier than expected as they were worried about the undercuts coming into play. Ferrari saw the same thing and it was really a race between us two from then onwards.

"At that point, you make your bet that you will be having a few stops during the day. It was a good victory for Sebastian and Fernando drove well too – it was a great result for the team with a one-two. The grip wasn’t great at the start, but I will leave Istanbul happy – it was my best result of the year so far.”

The result leaves the Australian third in the standings with 55 points behind Vettel (93) and Lewis Hamilton (59).

PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS

The Turkish Grand Prix Istanbul, Turkey; 58 laps; 309.396km; Weather: Sunny.

Pos Driver Team Time

1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1h30:17.558

2. Webber Red Bull-Renault + 8.807

3. Alonso Ferrari + 10.075

4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes + 40.232

5. Rosberg Mercedes + 47.539

6. Button McLaren-Mercedes + 59.431

7. Heidfeld Renault + 1:00.857

8. Petrov Renault + 1:08.168

9. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 1:09.300

10. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari + 1:18.000

World Championship standings, round 4:

Drivers: Constructors:



1. Vettel 93 1. Red Bull-Renault 148

2. Hamilton 59 2. McLaren-Mercedes 105

3. Webber 55 3. Ferrari 65

4. Button 46 4. Renault 42

5. Alonso 41 5. Mercedes 26

6. Massa 24 6. Sauber-Ferrari 8

7. Petrov 21 7. Toro Rosso-Ferrari 6

8. Heidfeld 21 8. Force India-Mercedes 4

9. Rosberg 20

10. Kobayashi 8

11. Buemi 6

12. Schumacher 6

13. Sutil 2

14. Di Resta 2

[Deco28]

Vettel can't be beaten. This is getting ridiculous.

Well done Webber.

[planetdavo]

Vettel can't be beaten. This is getting ridiculous.

Well done Webber.

Golden periods come and go, where one can't seem to do much wrong.
Schumacher and Ferrari- F1
Skaife and HRT- V8 Supercars
Loeb and Citroen- WRC

The competition is catching Red Bull, even if they aren't quite there yet. Last year Red Bull started the year with the best car by far, yet they only juuuuuust won the championship. Plenty of rounds to go yet.
Cracking season again, even if the winner is a bit predictable so far.

[seldo]

Vettel can't be beaten. This is getting ridiculous.

Well done Webber.If Mark could get his shit together sooner each race weekend he'd be half a chance. Vettel has started from pole in each of the 4 races so far this year, and has finished 1,1,2,1.
Webber has qualified 3,3,18,2, and finished 5,4,3,2, but has set fastest race lap in the last 3 races (Massa was fastest lap in Australian GP).
Unless Vettel has some really bad luck at some stage, the horse has bolted for this year...

[hoon69]

Spanish Grand Prix results;
Pos Driver Team Laps Time/Retired Grid
1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 66 Winner 2
2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 66 +0.6 secs 3
3 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 66 +35.6 secs 5
4 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 66 +47.9 secs 1
5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 65 +1 Lap 4
6 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 65 +1 Lap 10
7 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 65 +1 Lap 7
8 Nick Heidfeld Renault 65 +1 Lap 24
9 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 65 +1 Lap 12
10 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 65 +1 Lap 14
11 Vitaly Petrov Renault 65 +1 Lap 6
12 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 65 +1 Lap 16
13 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 65 +1 Lap 17
14 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 65 +1 Lap 11
15 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 65 +1 Lap 9
16 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 64 +2 Laps 13
17 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 64 +2 Laps 19
18 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 64 +2 Laps 18
19 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 63 +3 Laps 20
20 Jerome d’Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 62 +4 Laps 23
21 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 61 +5 Laps 22
Ret Felipe Massa Ferrari 58 +8 Laps 8
Ret Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 48 Accident 15
Ret Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 28 +38 Laps 21

World Championship points;

Pos Driver Team Points
1 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 118
2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 77
3 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 67
4 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 61
5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 51
6 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 26
7 Nick Heidfeld Renault 25
8 Felipe Massa Ferrari 24
9 Vitaly Petrov Renault 21
10 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 14
11 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 9
12 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 6
13 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 2
14 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 2
15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 2
16 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 0
17 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 0
18 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 0
19 Jerome d’Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 0
20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 0
21 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 0
22 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 0
23 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 0
24 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 0



http://www.formula1.com/wi/347x231/sutton/2011/d11esp2030.jpg
No it's not jesus christ it's just that Vettel dewd winning yet again :soap:
There may not have been as much overtaking as we saw in Turkey, but Lewis Hamilton made it a gripping Barcelona race on Sunday as he hounded Sebastian Vettel from the 20th to the 66th and final lap. The reigning world champion had to work every inch of the way as he took his fourth victory of the season for Red Bull, and the two drivers were separated by a mere 0.6s after more than 300 kilometres of flat-out racing.

There was drama that the crowd loved at the start when Ferrari's Fernando Alonso burst through from fourth place to slam down the inside of poleman Mark Webber going into the first corner. It was the prelude to a disappointing afternoon for the Australian, who had been focusing on keeping Vettel at bay and didn't spot the Ferrari in time.

Alonso kept it in the lead until his first of four pit stops on the 10th lap, and his second on the 19th, but thereafter the race was between Vettel and Hamilton, who stopped initially on Laps Nine and 11 and then 18 and 23 respectively, and also stopped four times in total.

As they raced ahead, Alonso kept a frustrated Webber at bay, and McLaren's Jenson Button worked his way back from a terrible start that dropped him initially from fifth on the grid to 10th at the end of the opening lap.

Alonso was third when he pitted for the third time on the 29th lap, and again he held off Webber, but the Spaniard soon blistered a set of hard tyres and gradually dropped away as he had to make his final set of hard Pirellis last from the 39th lap to the end.

Not so Vettel and Hamilton, who went at it hammer and tongs. The gap fluctuated between two seconds and half a second, but in a race in which DRS failed to generate as much overtaking action as had been expected, a 0.6s to 0.7s stalemate set in over the final 15 laps and Vettel worked the traffic well to maintain this small but crucial advantage after a super-cool drive.

Hamilton was a valiant second, and McLaren picked up the third podium place after three-stopping Button made the most of his final set of soft tyres to jump the slowing Alonso and Webber. Webber fought back at first after his final stop, but was 12.2s behind the 2009 champion by the flag, and Button in turn was 35s adrift of his team mate.

Alonso clung on to a lapped fifth place, ahead of the duelling Mercedes. Michael Schumacher kept team mate Nico Rosberg at bay to take his best result of the season with sixth, but by the end Nick Heidfeld's heady race from the back of the grid in his Renault saw him only four-tenths away from Rosberg.

It was a good day for Sauber, with Sergio Perez and Kamui Kobayashi driving hard races for ninth and 10th, the Japanese driver clawing back after being delayed by a puncture picked up on the opening lap.

Renault's Vitaly Petrov faded from the points in the closing laps, but was too far ahead for Paul di Resta to challenge after another race in which the Scottish rookie comfortably beat Force India team mate Adrian Sutil as they both stopped only three times.

Sebastien Buemi fought hard all the way through but couldn’t better 14th for Toro Rosso, just two-tenths ahead of Pastor Maldonado in the lead Williams. The Venezuelan finished well ahead of Toro Rosso’s Jaime Alguersuari and team mate Rubens Barrichello, while Jarno Trulli was the first Lotus home with 18th place after a strong midfield run in which he led team mate Heikki Kovalainen until the Finn crashed due to driver error.

Virgin had to play second fiddle initially to Tonio Liuzzi's HRT, but Timo Glock eventually caught and passed the Italian, who later retired. The German led home his Belgian team mate Jerome D’Ambrosio, with Narain Karthikeyan 21st and last for HRT. Besides Liuzzi and Kovalainen, the other retiree was Felipe Massa, who had a very tough race in his Ferrari and dropped from a low points-scoring position thanks to a gearbox problem.

Vettel now has 118 points to Hamilton's 77, Webber's 67, Button's 61 and Alonso's 51, while Red Bull Racing extend their score to 185 from McLaren's 138 and Ferrari's 75.

Webber, Hamilton, Button and Alguersuari were all investigated after the race regarding yellow flag infringements, and all were subsequently reprimanded

[Martin_D]

The big difference from this race?
Vettels pit outlap getting past two cars in two corners to stay in touch with the lead, and Webber who couldnt make it stick lap after lap against Alonso, even getting past getting to the apex and giving it up again. 4th isnt good enough in this instance in a (proven) race winning car that started from pole with no mechanical issues.

[seldo]

The big difference from this race?
Vettels pit outlap getting past two cars in two corners to stay in touch with the lead, and Webber who couldnt make it stick lap after lap against Alonso, even getting past getting to the apex and giving it up again. 4th isnt good enough in this instance in a (proven) race winning car that started from pole with no mechanical issues.Have to agree Martin - a disappointing drive from Webber. It was really all done and dusted by the first corner.

[Delft Maloo]

Disappointed with redbull and mark webber, they were both to blame for that effort, there pit strategy was absolutely hopeless and webbers aggression was pretty ordinary 80% of the blame must be placed on him and if the team had made better choices with their pit stops he would never had been in that position at all just like hamilton.

[Souljah]

Was Marks KERS working at all this race? Seems to me he couldn't gain anything on Alonso down that front straight where as Hamilton was able to close right up on Vettel.

[jc_sv8]

Watching the start, Mark was trying to cover Vettel and let Alonso down the inside.
If he'd stayed right he'd have blocked Alonso and Vettel would have been stranded on the outside where he ended up outside Alonso.

So I think it's Marks fault... Shame I'd like him to win one before the fairytale comes to an end...

[XUV]

What's the go with ch 10's coverage , great that it's live , but the add breaks ,

missed pit stops/overtaking , not to mention the ah-bra I bought :goodjob: not .

[VX2VESS]

Watching the start, Mark was trying to cover Vettel and let Alonso down the inside.
If he'd stayed right he'd have blocked Alonso and Vettel would have been stranded on the outside where he ended up outside Alonso.

So I think it's Marks fault... Shame I'd like him to win one before the fairytale comes to an end...
yeah, best opportunity blown from pole. With the trouble they had overtaking even with the longest kers available yet, he need to be in front at the first corner then they would have had the overtaking issues.

I think the KErs wasn't working again on at least one red bull, Vettel said he had trouble but managed to get it going sometimes by playing with all the buttons.

Alonso powered through on the first corner probably with Kers on as when he past them they were already all well underway with a fairly even start.

Still overtaking was only an issue for the cars up the front being so even in speed.

[planetdavo]

What is it with all the aussie tall poppy knockers of Mark Webber?
A number of drivers are having issues coming to terms with the vastly different tyres this year, and since it's all about having the confidence to commit, if stands to reason that if people are having issues adjusting to the hugely different tyre grip they will have issues risking that last one percent commitment. Mark is not alone. It just seems to suit Vettel better, but that doesn't mean it always will.
It's easy for keyboard racers and small time track champs to bag Mark, but he's achieved far more than just about anyone on here ever will, and I expect to see a more confident Mark Webber soon (and some of the others).
Sure Webber covered Seb Vettel, but almost no-one would have expected the Ferrari of Alonso to be where it was, which left Mark with two very different race lines to cover. If he'd covered Alonso forcing him onto the grass he might have been smashed off the road. If he'd gone the other way to cover Vettel he'd be attacked for leaving half a track width for Alonso. A decision on covering either of those two drivers had to be made over no more than a few seconds, yet the critics can spend HOURS disecting a drivers good or bad decisions. Easy pickings...:slap:

[Martin_D]

Webber did a very good job of the race
Just that Button, Hamilton, and Vettel did a better job
That is all :teach:

[jc_sv8]

he's achieved far more than just about anyone on here ever will

I can guarantee he has certainly achieved more than ALL of us here, not just about.

They are only comments and observations from an armchair racer, I hope Mark goes on to win at least a couple and win the world title. Certainly not knocking him, but it will be interesting to see his next interview if they ask the question.

Yes hindsight is a marvelous thing, and watching the replays from each driver view, the second Alonso could he jammed that left thumb HARD on the KERS and left it there until it was all gone. It's brilliant to watch all of the different views down to the first corner. There are certainly some split decisions made watching those cars darting around. It's usually first into the first corner wins and the guy on the inside can back them all up and make them go around him, but you can then push them wide on the exit.

Do you think it was a mistake to cover Vettel and let Alonso go? He started perfectly and - in my opinion - should have pointed the car directly at the first corner and stayed on line...

[rgmast]

What is it with all the aussie tall poppy knockers of Mark Webber?
A number of drivers are having issues coming to terms with the vastly different tyres this year, and since it's all about having the confidence to commit, if stands to reason that if people are having issues adjusting to the hugely different tyre........blah blah blah

explain why he was on pole then ?

Dave sometimes u can agree with the rest of the world. Mark Webber is a good driver but he did have an ordinary race be it him or his team .

Im surprise u like him at all considering he doesnt drive a Holden/GM

[Martin_D]

Thats true rgmast....Redbull = Infiniti (Nissan) badged car with Renault (Nissan) built engine.... and a true fan is Datto Davo. Wait till their is a Daewoo F1 team, Davo will jump ship fast :cool:

[planetdavo]

explain why he was on pole then ?

Dave sometimes u can agree with the rest of the world. Mark Webber is a good driver but he did have an ordinary race be it him or his team .

Im surprise u like him at all considering he doesnt drive a Holden/GM

You would be well aware that this years quali is all about saving tyres.
Red Bull did one timed lap, and no more. This means he had one lap to get the tyres to correct temps and pressures to start his quali lap, which also gives him an opportunity to "feel" the track surface. At the end on that one single timed lap, he got more of it right than the others did. Doesn't mean any of them (bar Alonso perhaps) actually achieved 100% potential.
The start of the race is a very different beast to a quali lap. 23 other cars using about 8 different lines to try and pass you, some of whom are prepared to risk a big smash going for glory. Hero or zero doesn't always bring home the bacon...:)
So, by trying to cover both Alonso and Vettel, he got passed at the start. This then left him compromised for the rest of the race. By trying to use pit stategy to clear Alonso, he was left with little option to beat Vettel on Sunday. A combination of a slight lack of confidence with the tyre grip, different drivers driving styles and the way these new tyres fall off a cliff once they've given up their best grip all contributed to the end result. Vettel only barely won too, in a far superior car. Why didn't he win by 20 seconds over Hamilton????????? Can't blame safety cars for compressing the field.
PS: Who cares what car he drives. I'm above that kiddie sort of stuff. :spew:

[seldo]

The real issue was that Webber had only counted on Vettel being the problem off the grid and had not even considered Alonso getting a demon start from the next row. Once he had moved to fend-off Vettel he had blown his chance since he's only allowed one defensive move.
Whilst it's easy to sit back here and be critical, I do think he should have covered to the right instead of the left, but I don't think he even considered the possibility of Alonso doing a blinder to the front.
Maybe he'll do better at Monaco again, but Vettel's got an almost unassailable lead that is pretty much un-catchable, bar a major incident.
And Davo - in case your shot was aimed at me - I am the first to applaud Webber's efforts and accomplishments (some would even say to excess) - as you say, far superior to any of the critics' efforts, but I'm sure Webber would agree that his race was disappointing.

[Martin_D]

PS: Who cares what car he drives. I'm above that kiddie sort of stuff. :spew:

Ok, now apply that to your general automotive posts on this forum.....

[seldo]

..... but I'm sure Webber would agree that his race was disappointing.
Just saw on Webber's own web-site that he said ..."I wasn't good enough on the day".

[goofafidamedes]

Some would say Alonso grenaded them all off the line by not only getting a decent old start but using all of his KERS too... right down into the braking zone to ensure he was in the lead. A bit of a banzai effort, but to be applauded nonetheless.

From there, unfortunately as Webber was outbraked by Vettel it was all about damage limitation from there. Then Ferrari got the jump on Webber for all of his stops bar the last one, when Alonso was in a bit of trouble. Webber was really never in a position to cover off Hamilton either.

Bit of a shame really...

[Martin_D]

Problem Webber has now is the pressure he has put himself under to remain competitive in the championship. His only hope of for Vettels car to grenade constantly as it did last year....and for his to remain reliable.

We are seeing a lot more polished and complete Vettel this year - he would look to be unbeatable IMO, but I am only an armchair critic not a qualified Epica racer like Davo. As Vettel would say "Ring-a-ding-ding-ding" :)

[planetdavo]

Ok, now apply that to your general automotive posts on this forum.....

I do every day Street Tuna, as you should be well aware, but apparently sometimes, if you try adding a dose of reality to out of control opinion based posts it gets called "being one sided” by people who know no better…:confused:

[planetdavo]

We are seeing a lot more polished and complete Vettel this year - he would look to be unbeatable IMO, but I am only an armchair critic not a qualified Epica racer like Davo. As Vettel would say "Ring-a-ding-ding-ding" :)

Making a huge markup from tuning customers cars so you can afford to buy race cars doesn't necessarily make one a more knowledgeable observer of Formula 1. Just means said person can afford to drive on a track in a non Formula 1 car. :)

[Martin_D]

Just means said person can afford to drive on a track in a non Formula 1 car. :)

Davo I race humble little Subarus and previously Evos - which list at less than your Holden road car. 'Doing' is better than 'talking'. When was the last time you entered any kind of motorsport event to become the consumate armchair critic Davo? (although it may be a considered answer Keyboard Racing dont count) :cool:

[HazzaHSV]

Not quite. Vettel couldn't pass Alonso either when they were both on equal tyres. First 17 laps. On his out lap Vettel had better tyres than those he passed (incidentally Button, Massa and Rosberg not Alonso) because Redbull gave him the preference for the undercut. Big difference.

No the only mistake Webber made was not seeing Alonso at the start after Vettel peeled off, and letting him down the extreme inside. Combine that with the crappy pit strategy and it was game over. All they needed was to bring Mark in a lap earlier or a lap later than Alonso (like McLaren did with Hamilton) on the second stop and he would have been passed. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But yes big disappointment. It will have to be Monaco now. Go WEBBER!

The big difference from this race? Vettels pit outlap getting past two cars in two corners to stay in touch with the lead, and Webber who couldnt make it stick lap after lap against Alonso

[Martin_D]

Yes go Webber, but 2011 may well be out of his grasp now, which shows what a lost opportunity Korea was in 2010. A career defining moment if you may

[planetdavo]

Davo I race humble little Subarus and previously Evos - which list at less than your Holden road car. 'Doing' is better than 'talking'. When was the last time you entered any kind of motorsport event to become the consumate armchair critic Davo? (although it may be a considered answer Keyboard Racing dont count) :cool:

When was the last time you owned a Holden Tuna, and didn't post daily Holden baiting posts on here? :spew:
I don't care if you can drive a race car better than me, but does that make you a better observer of Formula 1, and does it make you immune to tall poppy syndrome?
Not necessarily. :cool:

[HazzaHSV]

Yes true. But life goes on. He is over it, so we should be too. What has also been career defining is his amazing wins (Germany even after suffering a stop/go penalty, Monaco last year on THE drivers circuit of the year showing his class etc), so bring on more. Hopefully this week. :eyes:

[rgmast]

Making a huge markup from tuning customers cars so you can afford to buy race cars doesn't necessarily make one a more knowledgeable observer of Formula 1. Just means said person can afford to drive on a track in a non Formula 1 car. :)

Wow big statement
(how dare he be in business to make money,maybe if you got off ya ass and started ya own spare parts business u to could go racing )
but the way other tuners in SA charge they should be racing a F1

[planetdavo]

Wow big statement
(how dare he be in business to make money,maybe if you got off ya ass and started ya own spare parts business u to could go racing )
but the way other tuners in SA charge they should be racing a F1

True statement though my friend. Just because someone can afford a club car/modified production car/whatever doesn't make them an automatic god of Formula 1 observation.
Webber haters sh!t me. Pure and simple tall poppy syndrome. Rather than congratulate him on his successes all they want to do is cut him off at the knees, no matter what the reasons are behind his current reduced level of success...:spew:

[Martin_D]

I don't care if you can drive a race car better than me, but does that make you a better observer of Formula 1, and does it make you immune to tall poppy syndrome?
Not necessarily. :cool:

Club level racing is part of my job - whether I enjoy it or not. Its what I - have - to do. We sell (a majority of) -racing - parts and thats how we advertise them. Simple really.

None of this 'playing' the man takes away the current discussion that Webber is not in a good spot this year in his form, his own mind, and certainly not in the team. Thank god we have put the 'if only he had a car as good as Vettels' argument away.

Bottom line is Webber is a bloody good driver, however he is totally outclassed by his brilliant 22 year old team mate. A journeyman in his last year, versus a prodigy at the top of his game and the start of his career. Be happy for Vettel and Webber, however only one of them stands a chance at winning the championship this year. If you had even the slightest sceric of a motorsport brain Davo you would see this clearly and without the obvious parochial and emotional confusion that tends to drive your posts :teach:

I back both the Crows AND Port Power and I wont bat an eyelid at saying they are both playing shit football at the moment and will be battling for the wooden spoon. Facts are facts.

[planetdavo]

Just saw on Webber's own web-site that he said ..."I wasn't good enough on the day".

The mark of the man. If he feels he didn't perform in some way then he is man enough to say so, rather than blame another driver, wind direction or the alignment of the planets.
There have been some comments on the peerless driving of Vettel this year, but let's all be honest, Seb hasn't had a lot of competition. He's had by far the best car this year, and his style instantly suited the vastly different Pirelli tyres for 2011. Once the others get their acts together and he faces regular pressure we will know what the true state of affairs are (or quite possibly confirm his maturity after a championship win).

[Martin_D]

There have been some comments on the peerless driving of Vettel this year, but let's all be honest, Seb hasn't had a lot of competition.

I take it you didnt watch the last race then? :eek:

[planetdavo]

Bottom line is Webber is a bloody good driver, however he is totally outclassed by his brilliant 22 year old team mate. A journeyman in his last year, versus a prodigy at the top of his game and the start of his career. Be happy for Vettel and Webber, however only one of them stands a chance at winning the championship this year. If you had even the slightest sceric of a motorsport brain Davo you would see this clearly and without the obvious parochial and emotional confusion that tends to drive your posts.

What would be good is to know how much of the current era of success for Red Bull is down to the huge reputation Mark carries technically.
Seb is young, talented and brave, but less experienced. Mark has the benefit of maturity, is technically gifted, but being older "possibly" takes less chances than Seb. Both are different people but with steel hard determination. Perhaps only you care that he's in the "twilight" of his career because of his age. For some that comes quite young, particularly once they get sick of all the international travel, whereas others simply get getter with age like a fine wine, and retire at their peak. Last year was Mark's best ever year. It's the rule changes that have made this year so different for many, not a sudden loss of ability fella. :teach:
Both work together for the team, and Seb is able to use what is available better than Mark at the moment, for various, previously explained reasons.
I don't believe I have any "emotional confusion" like some others. :)

[planetdavo]

I take it you didnt watch the last race then? :eek:

I never miss an F1 race. Always record on hard drive in case I want to review any incidents or critical race moments too. :teach:

[Martin_D]

It's the rule changes that have made this year so different for many, not a sudden loss of ability fella. :teach:

Part of a top level drivers ability is being able to read and understand the car and adapt to it quickly. Working out the right slip angles and driving technique for the Pirelli tyres to be at the pointy end has no doubt been a hard task, but it has also seen the cream rise to the top - and fast. Top 3 places last race were the last three world champions - in order. This is no fluke nor was it part of the holy rapture - just highly paid professionals doing what they are paid to do.

Reading and understanding the tyre and its life cycle is more than 75% of a top level drivers game. The gods such as Senna were masters of this. Thats part of what seperates them from mere mortals. Study some of the teachings from wise old heads like Carrol Smith and co. rather than reading the newsfeeds from f1.com and you will develop a better picture of what it is these guys do for a living other than just sit in a car flatten the throttle and steer it. It makes for good reading.

Fella :lol:

[planetdavo]

Part of a top level drivers ability is being able to read and understand the car and adapt to it quickly. Working out the right slip angles and driving technique for the Pirelli tyres to be at the pointy end has no doubt been a hard task, but it has also seen the cream rise to the top - and fast. Top 3 places last race were the last three world champions - in order. This is no fluke nor was it part of the holy rapture - just highly paid professionals doing what they are paid to do.

Reading and understanding the tyre and its life cycle is more than 75% of a top level drivers game. The gods such as Senna were masters of this. Thats part of what seperates them from mere mortals. Study some of the teachings from wise old heads like Carrol Smith and co. rather than reading the newsfeeds from f1.com and you will develop a better picture of what it is these guys do for a living other than just sit in a car flatten the throttle and steer it. It makes for good reading.

Fella :lol:

You might want to peruse the list of drivers that had a set or more of brand new options left to understand the final results of the whole field Tuna, not a couple of cherry picked examples to suit your argument (opinion).
As said earlier, the main thing that stuffed Mark's race was where everyone was sitting after turn one. Alonso's day produced much of Mark's lesser result. Bloody obvious to everyone...:teach:

[VYSHSV8]

Making a huge markup from tuning customers cars so you can afford to buy race cars doesn't necessarily make one a more knowledgeable observer of Formula 1. Just means said person can afford to drive on a track in a non Formula 1 car. :)
No different to who you work for davo sorry to say :):) except the difference is your company/ sorry your employer just rapes people constantly.....parts warranty etc etc but thats ok coz if they didn't you wouldn't have a job...

But back on track now

[VX2VESS]

http://www.f1pulse.com/UserFiles/Image/May2011/webber-230511.jpg

(http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_510/Mark-Webber/latest-articles.aspx)Mark Webber[/URL]’s [URL="http://www.f1pulse.com/grands_prix/Spain/grand_prix_profile.aspx"]Spanish Grand Prix (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_510/Mark-Webber/latest-articles.aspx) proved to be a tough one right from the start of the race despite starting from pole position.
The Australian driver tried to defend from teammate Sebastian Vettel (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_698/Sebastian-Vettel/latest-articles.aspx), who started behind him, into the first corner only to find Fernando Alonso (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_238/Fernando-Alonso/latest-articles.aspx) screaming past the pair to take the lead. Webber was relegated to third although he maintains that his start wasn’t as bad as it appeared to be.
“I don't think my start was hideous, but Fernando got a phenomenal one,” he said. “Obviously from then on it wasn’t the start we had planned and it was a bit of a chess game. People were covering each other’s pit stops and I really didn't do much racing on track.”
Webber eventually finished fourth behind the Vettel and the two McLaren (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_2/McLaren/latest-articles.aspx) drivers but in it was the Ferrari (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_1/Ferrari/latest-articles.aspx) of Alonso, behind whom he was tested for 18 trying laps, admittedly cost him valuable time.
“It was an interesting day today and shows how fine the margins are; we were frustrated by Fernando who seemed to pit every time I did! At certain stages I was quick and at others I wasn’t – that’s the way it was today,” he said after the 66-lap race.
The first three pit stops for Alonso and Webber came on identical laps – laps 10, 19 and 29 – although for the fourth stop the Spaniard pitted on lap 39, which was eight laps ahead of Webber’s final stop.
“Unfortunately for Mark, he spent the first half looking at Fernando Alonso’s exhaust and to get him ahead in the end we did a dummy which they fell for,” team principal Christian Horner explained. “Otherwise it was frustrating for Mark and the complete result would be to have him right up there as well.”

[Martin_D]

What would be good is to know how much of the current era of success for Red Bull is down to the huge reputation Mark carries technically.

I think you might find Adrian Newey is the main reason for Red Bulls current success...which is all aero :teach:

[seldo]

Hey girls - some of the personal swipes are getting tedious, and you should be above that...on both sides.

[hRTHSV]

I think Mark has been very disappointing this year, which as a fan is hard to take. The last 100m into the first corner in Spain reminded me about the first corner in Malaysia last year. Mark had the same chance 100m out as the other 2 , but they were more agressive under brakes and hungrier. The vision from the front is pretty clear.:bawl:

[planetdavo]

I think you might find Adrian Newey is the main reason for Red Bulls current success...which is all aero

Adrian Newey's aero genius is a major part of the success yes, but Adrian Newey doesn't tune the car to the changing track conditions throughout the weekend, or provide technical detail as to how the car "feels" on the track, and what areas need improving...:teach:
PS: Seldo meant you too fella.

[black_friday]

Off the start a proper teammate would have been blocking the number 3 driver and the two Red Bulls would have romped home. If Mark chose to block Vettel, he should have made it stick. Losing out to Vettel and Alonso on the first corner just isnt good enough, sorry to say.

And as for Red Bulls pit strategy, they have made some ordinary calls in the past but last weekend they were terrible. Following Alonso into the pits twice was really the height of stupidity. Clearly Mark didnt have the straight line speed to pass him on the track, so they had to do it in the pits, and early.

Mark cant afford to throw away another golden chance to the golden boy, or this championship will be all over very soon (if it isnt already).

Also, is it possible for davo and martin to have a separate thread?:stick:

[VYSHSV8]

Always knew there'd be one or two that couldn't resist.
I could publicly embarrass you with some truths, but I'll spare you tonight as I'm in a good mood. :)

No prob go ahead, it might give an insight into what you think you know.

[VX2VESS]

MW is more aggressive when he is really pissed off about something.

The team need to do that to him each race :)

[seldo]

MW is more aggressive when he is really pissed off about something.

The team need to do that to him each race :)Well here's a golden opportunity - Webber basically sat-out P1 and only did 3 laps, spending the majority in the pits. Is dead last so far

[VX2VESS]

Well here's a golden opportunity - Webber basically sat-out P1 and only did 3 laps, spending the majority in the pits. Is dead last so far
Is last, last in what?

'team do that to him more often' is in reference to last year the times the team pissed him off so much so he drove like a demon after it. back when Vettel was getting better bits etc

[VX2VESS]

oh i see now last in current practice today.

must be on a save the tyres strategy or had issues.

PS gearbox issue for MW (maybe that will do it for him)

[Martin_D]

Adrian Newey's aero genius is a major part of the success yes, but Adrian Newey doesn't tune the car to the changing track conditions throughout the weekend, or provide technical detail as to how the car "feels" on the track, and what areas need improving...:teach:


Correct....that is what Telemetry is for :cool:

[planetdavo]

Correct....that is what Telemetry is for :cool:

As I'm sure you would know, telemetry is an aid to the whole picture, but it can't second guess what the drivers themselves feel the car needs to be a better package. :yup:

[HazzaHSV]

Can we leave this thread for Formula 1 now please.

[SAMCRO]

To be honest, Mark just doesn't have it.. Seb is much, much hungrier and if red Bull wins it's gonna be Seb, not Mark. He's stuffed up off the line a few times already. You'd think that he would work harder on it. I'm cheering for Mark, but I get dissapointed each time. He needs to step up his game if he wants it that bad otherwise he won't be around for much longer. Same situation is with Masa. Alonso is a crazy spaniard and you can tell in the way he's driving the car. That gets recognised and his contract gets renewed before it was even due for the renewal. I just want Schumacher to jump in the Red Bull car and drive the wheels off it :) :driving: :driving:

[RARASV8]

for QUALY tonight
http://twentysports.blogspot.com/p/channel-7.html

Garry

[C4B]

Next Off Topic Post in this thread and the author isn't going to be back until next financial year.

PD and Tuna. Whilst you obviously find each others company quite compelling, nobody else gives a rats ass about your off topic banter.

[VX2VESS]

Red Bulls not going so well in practice, practice 3 is over.
1-7
Alonso
Button
Massa
Vettel
Shoey
Hamilton
Webber

[RARASV8]

don't worry about those times! redbull were on older soft tyres and not using DRS
a few accidents stopped practice and restarted with only 2 minutes left in practice.

Garry

[CeeVee8]

Will they even use DRS at this circuit ?

[bok1]

looks like it will be another win for vettel the way he is driving at the moment.it must be starting to play on marks mind now how much faster vettel is in the same car this year.


phil

[VYSHSV8]

looks like it will be another win for vettel the way he is driving at the moment.it must be starting to play on marks mind now how much faster vettel is in the same car this year.


phil

Yes it does and it's hard to say if they have got Kers running properly, I know Marks wasn't working properly not sure about Vettel as it will be important out of the slow corners :):)

[kayman]

Perez wont be partaking in todays race as he was concussed in that Q3 incident yesterday and doctors wont give him the go ahead to race.

[VYSHSV8]

Perez wont be partaking in todays race as he was concussed in that Q3 incident yesterday and doctors wont give him the go ahead to race.

Yeh he won't be was very lucky, not good seeing accidents like that but thank god for modern structural integrity in the cockpit area:):)

[planetdavo]

As expected quali had far more action than usual this year, with many more laps being done. Sergio's big accident near the end of Q3 had a pretty dramatic effect on the final results, placing Lewis (whom I thought would get pole) back in 9th after not having run an early Q3 time then getting a subsequent penalty for chicane cutting, losing 7th from his one last gasp quali lap post the accident.
The race should still be very interesting, with (I believe anyway) McLaren having the best race package this weekend, so in with a very high chance of a win.

[Martin_D]

Vettel shows exceptional strength under pressure - and takes Monaco with a totally faultless drive :)
Mark drove very well too, just ballsed the start again, which is a real shame or potentially it could have been a Redbull 1-2

[CALDIR]

Hi


I thought it was a very entertaining race.


We had Webber still practising his launches as usual....maybe I oughtta teach him?:bow:

Alfonso driving a Ferrari the way it should be:goodjob:

Vettel driving like he was busting to go to the toilet and he got their in time too!


But something tells me that Monaco must have some hot nurses in the local hospital with so many drivers paying them a visit!!!:confused:

regards,

Richard
HRTSEN

[goofafidamedes]

Vettel shows exceptional strength under pressure - and takes Monaco with a totally faultless drive :)
Mark drove very well too, just ballsed the start again, which is a real shame or potentially it could have been a Redbull 1-2

For once Webber didn't get the worst start of everybody out there... Schuey had him covered for that honour.

Then that pit-stop cost him bulk time, around 12-15 seconds IIRC. Not sure if he had to queue in the lane for a little bit too, so it could have been a total of about 20 seconds. At that crucial stage of the race too, it really did his day in.

But then luck's a fortune, and he managed to get back into 4th - so still some decent points in the bank.


Was a relatively entertaining Monaco GP as far as the Monaco ones go, some banzai overtaking to boot.

[justin_d]

I thought Webber's start was ok but once again, Alonso got a ridiculously good start. I thought it was a very good race marred by the fact that they could change the tyres and wings. That was really disappointing as it would've been more entertaining to see them start racing again with the set up they had when they were last racing.

[Delft Maloo]

I thought Webber's start was ok but once again, Alonso got a ridiculously good start. I thought it was a very good race marred by the fact that they could change the tyres and wings. That was really disappointing as it would've been more entertaining to see them start racing again with the set up they had when they were last racing.

to true, they should have restarted as they were when they stopped.
I feel sorry for button the most, he deserved it with the drive he put in:goodjob:.

[planetdavo]

Plenty of action in the race, and certainly some race defining incidents.
Congrats to Seb. The third fastest team won the race today, but he was in the right place at the right time, so he did nothing wrong.
Sometimes, when luck is on your side it is very much on your side.

[VX2VESS]

Vettel would not have won if the race didn't stop early, very lucky with that win.

was a more interesting race, webber may have even have past vettel if the race didn't stop

[lme01]

Fantastic and entertaining race, frustrates the crap out of me seeing Mark just not get off the "mark" fast enough :) maybe he should get of himself a little faster!

Mark recovers really well race in and race out to just score himself ok points but he simply isn't aggressive enough, I feel he is too careful/reserved. He takes just too long to pull a move or take a chance, makes me want to throw something at the TV screen.

Vettel just outright shits me however he is an aewsome driver, what an effort to push those tyres so far. And totally agree that they should not be allowed to change tyres/fix wings/go to the toilet/have a shower/have a shag.... under RED Flag. They really got this one wrong and would love to see it change and would have made an incredible finish to the race.

How about those Hugs and Kisses Button recieved at the end, not sure who she is Marrying but am sure who she "digs" :) must have been an interesting party the night before...

Well I wasnt around to see Jones n Brabham win championships, many of you may have! and I can only hope that I get to see an Aussie win a championship one day. At this stage it would not appear to be Webber, not sure what is being grown down the ranks but whomever that next Assie F1 driver might be please feed him some concrete and attach a huge set of 'nuts'!

Cheers
Lawrie

[DukeZ]

daniel riccardio is the next big thing currently being groomed by redbull to race in f1...drives the friday practise session for torro rosso and is the 3rd driver also.... keep an eye he is in formula renault at the moment and doing really well...

[Martin_D]

Vettel just outright shits me however he is an aewsome driver, what an effort to push those tyres so far. And totally agree that they should not be allowed to change tyres/fix wings/go to the toilet/have a shower/have a shag.... under RED Flag. They really got this one wrong and would love to see it change and would have made an incredible finish to the race.

The reality is that with this red flag anywhere other than Monaco the race would have been declared over, so it really made no difference to the result. There is half a chance that with an incident free race Vettel - may - have held on, he is good enough in a wheel to wheel fight.

[VYSHSV8]

daniel riccardio is the next big thing currently being groomed by redbull to race in f1...drives the friday practise session for torro rosso and is the 3rd driver also.... keep an eye he is in formula renault at the moment and doing really well...
I agree he will be a fantastic driver after a season or 2 and will hopefully go onto great things:):)

[black_friday]

Being allowed to change tyres under the red flag ruined it for me. Vettel was extremely lucky to get away with the win, since Alonso and Button were on fresher tyres and speculation that Vettels tyres wouldnt last the distance. Those guys would have passed him for sure, or taken him out trying! Once again a disastrous pit stop call by red bull and it ruined marks race

[HazzaHSV]

daniel riccardio is the next big thing currently being groomed by redbull to race in f1...drives the friday practise session for torro rosso and is the 3rd driver also.... keep an eye he is in formula renault at the moment and doing really well...More than that. Ricciardo actually won the Monaco Formula Renault race earlier that day. :goodjob:

Regarding some of the comments here. I disagree. I don't think Webber got a bad start at all actually. By far the biggest hinderence in his race was the 15 second pit stop due to Redbull screwing up strategy/pitstops. Vettel should have lost the race because of it too, and he would have been lucky to slip and slide home in third if the race wasn't red flagged. If you watch the onboard from Alonso, you will see Marks initial start was just as good as his (the same last week too), but for some reason from around 90km/h his car is very slow. This is the point where KERS cuts in off the start line.

He owned the fastest lap of the race (actually that goes for 4 out of 5 races this year) and the pass of the day IMO, but didn't quite have the rythm and pace he had last year unfortunately, and with the bad stop and red flag was destined for fourth.

[Delft Maloo]

daniel riccardio is the next big thing currently being groomed by redbull to race in f1...drives the friday practise session for torro rosso and is the 3rd driver also.... keep an eye he is in formula renault at the moment and doing really well...

He also smashed them again this year at monaco in the renault 3.5 series at monaco, its a pity as last year both aussies took out the big races there. He is the future of australian f1 talent and i have no doubt once he is in a competitive car he will surpass every other australian to race in f1.

[VX2VESS]

since Alonso and Button were on fresher tyres and speculation that Vettels tyres wouldnt last the distance. Those guys would have passed him for sure, or taken him out trying! Once again a disastrous pit stop call by red bull and it ruined marks race

yes that long pit stop for mark lost him some time.

pass or take vettel out or all 3 and Mark wins would have been a better result

[lme01]

Wow, looking forward to see
Daniel Race with the big boys then :) seems to be some hope after all.

[Delft Maloo]

Wow, looking forward to see
Daniel Race with the big boys then :) seems to be some hope after all.

well in the first friday practice of every round he gets to drive 1 of the torro rosso cars swapping between the 2 full time drivers 1 round at a time. So far he has bettered his full time team mates on occasions and when he hasnt he has only been a tenth or so off, not bad for someone with relatively no experience in the car compared to the full time guys. There is talk that one of the torro rosso guys will get the axe befor the seasons end and ricciardo will take the full time drive. Red bull bosses have already said that he will be racing in f1 full time next year but with who? maybe red bull but most likely it will be with torro rosso to get him started just like they did with vettle befor moving him into the main team.

[VX2VESS]

More than that. Ricciardo actually won the Monaco Formula Renault race earlier that day. :goodjob:

Regarding some of the comments here. I disagree. I don't think Webber got a bad start at all actually. By far the biggest hinderence in his race was the 15 second pit stop due to Redbull screwing up strategy/pitstops. Vettel should have lost the race because of it too, and he would have been lucky to slip and slide home in third if the race wasn't red flagged. If you watch the onboard from Alonso, you will see Marks initial start was just as good as his (the same last week too), but for some reason from around 90km/h his car is very slow. This is the point where KERS cuts in off the start line.

He owned the fastest lap of the race (actually that goes for 4 out of 5 races this year) and the pass of the day IMO, but didn't quite have the rythm and pace he had last year unfortunately, and with the bad stop and red flag was destined for fourth.

Which make you think Red bull doesn't have a properly working Kers system, they have hinted that a few times. Most of the time Mark looks like he doesn't have it working, other cars seem to pull away at kers points, or catch up to them. That would make it hard to keep up with the rest, if so Mark is doing a great job without it.

The race before Vettel said he had trouble getting his working for most of the race.

[VX2VESS]

just found this so above is correct that explains a lot.

http://blogs.bettor.com/Mark-Webber-KERS-question-still-not-solved,-Red-Bull-working-hard-to-learn-the-issue-Formula-1-a66768

http://motorpundit.com/?p=1905

In the the FIA press meeting Newey admitted RED bull being aero and suspension specialists not KERS.Ouch!He also admits their system is based on a older Marelli system and was adapted to their packaging requirements...and their KERS department is too small and too slow to get things turned around in time...Well speaks volumes about the priorities at RedBull.They clearly did not expect to need it really and made a start only small contribution KERS .Now with the car showing not superior on race speed and the pirellis giving strategy options KERS is more important as Newey had imagined possible.
in the TV news today that Red-Bull will be without KERS in Monaco, because they expect problems again after KERS did not work properly in Vettel´s car in last weeks race.

so good race car and aeros, to stingy on Kers, now that is coming back to bite them on the starts etc, plus soon they will all loose the DRS flap option, Silverstone i belive it goes and so does the big advantage that give red bull over the others. so unless they get Kers working better they are going to be slower again. that will be bye bye red bull winning anymore

[lme01]

Have you noticed in the tail end of every race (last 15laps) Mark is running like a bat out of hell! He finds massive amounts of speed and begins to hunt the field down, picking them one at a time. Just hope he can put that speed down from the start.

[VX2VESS]

Have you noticed in the tail end of every race (last 15laps) Mark is running like a bat out of hell! He finds massive amounts of speed and begins to hunt the field down, picking them one at a time. Just hope he can put that speed down from the start.

maybe kers started working lol. not sure why really, weak kers system works better when the car is light, which also explains the starts when at full weight.

they probably have a low kw light weight kers, and that only when it does work. the other have a higher kw kers system, more faster power storage etc Except that doesn't explain why the others don't get faster at the end

[VX2VESS]

Not sure on the DRS bit read something somewhere, not sure why they would get rid of a new system this season. maybe not. RB live of it....

[planetdavo]

...plus soon they will all loose the DRS flap option, Silverstone i belive it goes and so does the big advantage that give red bull over the others. so unless they get Kers working better they are going to be slower again. that will be bye bye red bull winning anymore

They will be losing the ability to use planted throttle blown exhausts as an aerodynamic aid when normally on reduced throttle for cornering. It's suspected as being a huge part of Red Bull's aero superiority, although a number of teams are using the system.

[Delft Maloo]

Check the hamilton interview out, he is pissed.
7Am3PYbroDs

[HazzaHSV]

Wow he really lost it with some of those comments. IMO the stewards were right on both accounts, as he was too far back to try and pass in those spots. He was just pissed that Schuey got him at the hairpin when he was sleeping, and that he qualified badly. Everyone knows the only real place to pass if the guy in front still has good tyres and isn't going to give up easily is the swimming pool chicane. He should have done it there, as the other party at least has the option of going straight on to continue in the race (ala Webber vs Koboyashi). Hamilton ran out of lock to be able to pass Massa at the hairpin, and was way to far back to try and pass Maldonado. Real shame for the Williams driver.

With the engine blowing, they are not necessarily going to ban all of it, so Redbull will keep some advantage. Its the hot blowing they really don't like, not so much the cold blowing. Cold blowing was worth roughly 8 tenths, and hot blowing an extra 5.

[HSVREDSLED]

Wow he really lost it with some of those comments. IMO the stewards were right on both accounts, as he was too far back to try and pass in those spots. He was just pissed that Schuey got him at the hairpin when he was sleeping, and that he qualified badly. Everyone knows the only real place to pass if the guy in front still has good tyres and isn't going to give up easily is the swimming pool chicane. He should have done it there, as the other party at least has the option of going straight on to continue in the race (ala Webber vs Koboyashi). Hamilton ran out of lock to be able to pass Massa at the hairpin, and was way to far back to try and pass Maldonado. Real shame for the Williams driver.

With the engine blowing, they are not necessarily going to ban all of it, so Redbull will keep some advantage. Its the hot blowing they really don't like, not so much the cold blowing. Cold blowing was worth roughly 8 tenths, and hot blowing an extra 5.

Just watched both incidents closely. I agree, he was in the wrong on both counts. Masser was aggresively protecting the corner however. Look at his driving line compared to the redbull in front.

YouTube - ‪Felipe Massa Crash with Lewis Hamilton - Big F1 Crash At Monoco F1 GP 2011 - Formula 1‬‏

[HazzaHSV]

Yep spot on. There is nothing wrong with protecting a corner though. Hamilton can't expect everyone to 'let' him pass. Also remember, Webber in the Redbull was taking an extra wide line to try and get the momentum on the Toro Rosso, so you can't compare directly with him.

[VX2VESS]

Fernando Alonso (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_238/Fernando-Alonso/latest-articles.aspx) said that he was willing to risk a crash with race leader and Monaco Grand Prix (http://www.f1pulse.com/grands_prix/Monaco/grand_prix_profile.aspx) winner Sebastian Vettel (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_698/Sebastian-Vettel/latest-articles.aspx) hoping to clinch a victory as the German struggled with his tyres. The Red Bull (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_145/Red-Bull/latest-articles.aspx) driver’s disadvantage however was levelled out towards the end of the race after red flags stopped the race due to an accident involving Vitaly Petrov (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_870/Vitaly-Petrov/latest-articles.aspx).
Just before the incident, Vettel’s tyres were on the edge as he had done only a single stop with the Spaniard breathing down on him on fresher rubber, a strategy he had specifically prepared for the closing laps.
“Well, you never know what is going to happen in the final result. But 100 per cent I was ready to try,” Alonso said. “He was having some more problems with the tyres in the last 10 laps of the race.
“We were managing the tyres when I pitted, as I knew that at the end of the race it was our time to attack but that last 10 laps didn’t come as we had the red flag and the safety car. I was ready to attack.”
Alonso is currently fifth in the drivers’ standings, a little less than half the points collected by the defending champion.
“There is the risk of 50 per cent you overtake 50 per cent maybe you crash, but this is Monaco and he is leading the championship so he has much more to lose than me, so I was ready to attack,” he added.
The Ferrari (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_1/Ferrari/latest-articles.aspx) driver pointed out that the Safety Car played a decisive role in the outcome.
“We gained one position with the first safety car and maybe we lose the victory in the second and the red flag,” he said. “I really think in the last nine laps the tyres from the Red Bull was struggling a lot, especially in the last part of the circuit and the middle part, so I had two places already in mind for the last lap.”
The two-time world champion had picked turn one and the straight after the tunnel as two possible places where he would have attempted his move.
“There is nothing to lose for me. I am not leading the championship so I will try to win the race and if we crash we crash,” he said.
Despite the result, Alonso affirmed his Thursday statement when he said that “the aerodynamics count for less and so we are suffering less” at the tight Monte Carlo (http://www.f1pulse.com/circuits/Monte_Carlo/3D43/circuits_profile.aspx) circuit indicating that the podium was not a true reflection of the pace of his car. A week before during the Spanish Grand Prix (http://www.f1pulse.com/grands_prix/Spain/grand_prix_profile.aspx), he was lapped by the leading pair in the race.
"I don’t think that here is a good reference in terms of performance from the cars, because our car is identical to Barcelona and we were two minutes behind there and we were two seconds behind here,” the 29-year-old said.
He further added that it wasn’t possible to catch up with Vettel just yet pointing out that a podium is the best position the Maranello-based outfit can achieve so far.
We need to win three races and he mustn’t score,” he quipped. “I think that’s more or less the calculation which I can do now,” he said. "Victory for us is maybe optimistic so we need to be realistic and start fighting for podiums in Canada and Valencia and then we will see how the championship develops, because the distance now is too much.”
Alonso however later stated on his blog that he had a real chance of a win in Monaco but was “robbed” of it due to the stoppage.

[lme01]

Just watched both incidents closely. I agree, he was in the wrong on both counts. Masser was aggresively protecting the corner however. Look at his driving line compared to the redbull in front.


Reading the paper today there was an apology from Hamilton in regards to his "black" comment made at the stewards :) the whole interview felt like he wanted to explode, pretty funny.

[planetdavo]

Vettel on pole in Canada by less than 0.2 of a second over the two Ferrari's.
Ferrari should smash Red Bull in this race if it's not affected by outside influences.

[Souljah]

Webber on the second row. Just hope he doesn't fluff the start again.

[planetdavo]

Webber on the second row. Just hope he doesn't fluff the start again.

A number of his "fluffed" starts have seen him launch ok, but it's when the KERS is permitted to kick in that gives him a poor secondary launch compared to the opposition. Webber has had so many KERS failures this year, and when it actually does work, it's clearly not the best system out there.
It will be extremely interesting to see the effects of the ban on hot blown exhausts from the British Grand Prix on. Adrian Newey's obsession with aero over KERS will probably still win the championships for Red Bull this year, but there could be more than a strong whiff of Button's 2009 Brawn GP year about the way it finishes, as the momentum is very close to turning...

[seldo]

A number of his "fluffed" starts have seen him launch ok, but it's when the KERS is permitted to kick in that gives him a poor secondary launch compared to the opposition. Webber has had so many KERS failures this year, and when it actually does work, it's clearly not the best system out there.
It will be extremely interesting to see the effects of the ban on hot blown exhausts from the British Grand Prix on. Adrian Newey's obsession with aero over KERS will probably still win the championships for Red Bull this year, but there could be more than a strong whiff of Button's 2009 Brawn GP year about the way it finishes, as the momentum is very close to turning...Webber missed Practise 3 entirely, due to KERS problems, and in fact did a pretty damn good job qualifying 4th still without KERS at all!
He seems to race better when he's got the shits, so let's hope he does well in the race tomorrow morning.

[Martin_D]

Adrian Newey's obsession with aero over KERS will probably still win the championships for Red Bull this year, but there could be more than a strong whiff of Button's 2009 Brawn GP year about the way it finishes, as the momentum is very close to turning...

Aero will always win over KERS - with current regulations.
Red Bull are very competitive still, as shown by pole on this track which really doesnt suit their package, and never has....

[planetdavo]

Aero will always win over KERS - with current regulations.
Red Bull are very competitive still, as shown by pole on this track which really doesnt suit their package, and never has....

No argument they aren't competitive, but they only juuuuuuuuuuuust got pole today rather than by the best part of a second, and the Ferrari's race pace looks smoking hot for this weekend compared to Red Bull. Red Bull should have lost the last race too, only to get very lucky with the red flag rule book.
The rain will probably shuffle things up, but all things being equal, Ferrari "should" win this race. It's just whether it's Alonso or Massa.

[planetdavo]

Crazy race with a patience testing delay for rain in the middle.
As expected, Red Bull were not the quickest car this race. McLaren came through with Button rather than the expected Ferrari win (in normal dry conditions), and Vettel proved that luck isn't always on your side. Webber coming through for 3rd is a good result.

[futurels1]

Awesome race too watch on REPLAY!!! Glad i avoided news and papers too watch it at noon on monday.

Great effort by webber, even better comment regarding lewis's early passing attempt on him. "lewis must of thought the checkered flag was on turn 3" Good call.

Happy Vettel actually made a mistake! HOpefully a few more of those will create a exciting championship. I think vettel leads by 60 points still?

[smilng_daog]

Lewis has lost it. Mark may never get it back.

[Martin_D]

Schumachers drive was pick of the field. Fastest driver on intermediates. Gives us oldies some hope. Brilliant :bow:

[futurels1]

would be good to see ol shuemy in a more competitive car.

Any word on Kubica's return to the paddock?

[Delft Maloo]

damn i was tired on monday:sleep:, i watched the indycar,world superbikes, motogp, lemans 24hr,nascar sprintcup and the bloody 4hr long F1:) i was near yelling at the fia race stewards to get the bloody race started:soap: they could have re-started the bloody thing near an hour befor they did:flipoff:, thank christ it was a good race:bow:.

[hoon69]

very wet and exciting race,glad to see Vettel make a mistake shows his only human :flipoff: nah seriously was hoping he would crash :rofl:
good job Webber :goodjob:

[hoon69]

seriously might as well pack up shop and start the 2012 season early,could almost say for certain who will become the champion this year.

drivers
01 Sebastian Vettel 186
02 Jenson Button 109
03 Mark Webber 109
04 Lewis Hamilton 97
05 Fernando Alonso 87

constructors


01 RBR-Renault 295
02 McLaren-Mercedes 206
03 Ferrari 129
04 Renault 61
05 Mercedes 58
06 Sauber-Ferrari 27
07 STR-Ferrari 16
08 Force India-Mercedes 12





Sebastian Vettel scored his sixth victory of the season in Valencia on Sunday, without anyone getting anywhere close to his Red Bull.

Ferrari's Fernando Alonso battled with Mark Webber, however, and ultimately prevailed as the Australian's RB7 misbehaved in the closing stages and prevented him attempting to regain the second place he had held on two occasions.

Lewis Hamilton was 46.1s behind Vettel on a day when McLaren lacked pace, heading home Felipe Massa's Ferrari and team mate Jenson Button.

The Alonso/Webber fight was the main focal interest at the front as Vettel simply ran off and hid. Webber held it, under pressure, from Lap One to 20, but then Alonso overtook after exploiting his DRS going into Turn 12. The Spaniard then stayed there until his second pit stop on Lap 29, whereupon Webber went back in front having stopped a lap sooner.

His third and final stop on Lap 42 promoted Alonso again, and as Webber had run wide going into the pits and lost crucial time, the Ferrari driver was able to stop on Lap 45 and then stay ahead. Webber then fell away quite dramatically, as his car developed a gearbox problem. He was so far ahead of Hamilton, however, that his podium place was never in doubt.

Nico Rosberg finished a lonely seventh for Mercedes, ahead of a mighty scrap between Toro Rosso's Jaime Alguersuari, who ran a great two-stop strategy, and on-form three-stopper Adrian Sutil, who was only 0.4s behind him in his Force India as they finished eighth and ninth, a lap down. Nick Heidfeld had an undramatic run to 10th and the final point for Renault, ahead of Sergio Perez who drove his Sauber heroically with only one stop and deserved a point for the effort.

In another of those no longer so rare races in which nobody retired, Williams' Rubens Barrichello headed home Sebastien Buemi in the other Toro Rosso, Paul di Resta's Force India, Vitaly Petrov's Renault (in which he had made a terrible start and immediately lost places), Kamui Kobayashi's two-stopping Sauber, a delayed Michael Schumacher who had the front wing of his Mercedes damaged by Petrov as he rejoined after his first pit stop, and Pastor Maldonado's Williams.

Heikki Kovalainen beat Team Lotus team mate Jarno Trulli to 19th place, while Timo Glock saw off Virgin partner Jerome D'Ambrosio, who was involved in a mighty scrap early on with Tonio Liuzzi's HRT before pulling clear. Liuzzi thus took 23rd, well ahead of team mate Narain Karthikeyan.

Vettel now has 186 points to Button and Webber on 109, Hamilton on 97 and Alonso on 87. In the constructors' stakes, Red Bull have 295 to McLaren's 206 and Ferrari's 129.

[VX2VESS]

Formula One team Renault have job waiting for Mark Webber




http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/06/25/1226081/971794-webber.jpg
Wanted man: Red Bull Racing's Australian driver Mark Webber has an open invitation to become Renaults number one driver if he decides to leave Red Bull at the end of the year. Picture: Dimitar Dilkoff. Source: AFP



MARK Webber has been linked to a shock move to Lotus Renault GP, with the boss of the improving team admitting he wants to lure the Australian away from Red Bull.

Off-contract at the end of the season, Webber's future at Red Bull is in doubt, with the championship-winning team rumoured to be chasing Lewis Hamilton to partner Sebastian Vettel in what would be a super team.
Renault team boss Eric Boullier said he has spoken to Webber, who has also been linked to Ferrari and McLaren, about a move that would make him the undisputed No. 1 driver in the team.
"I really like Mark and I have known him for a long time," Boullier said on the eve of tonight's European Grand Prix in Valencia.
"We have discussed it from time to time, but we have never pushed him to ask what he wants to do because that decision is up to him."
or the most part, Webber has given little away when it comes to the prospect of retiring or leaving Red Bull. A driver who always signs one-year deals, Webber has indicated his preference is to stay with Red Bull.
However, the lure of a being a No. 1 driver and enjoying total support could appeal.
Red Bull boss Christian Horner was spotted talking to Lewis Hamilton in Canada, sparking rumours of a high-profile switch and casting doubt on Webber's future.
Boullier described Webber, who will have no shortage of options if he decides to leave Red Bull Racing, as "no diva". He said a job with his team was only a phone call away.
"The day he wants to leave Red Bull, he has my number and he knows I am interested," Boullier said.
"He has to tell us what he wants to do.
"If he seriously is considering moving away from Red Bull, then, yes, I am happy to sit down and discuss it with him. He needs to make a decision.
"If Mark tomorrow calls me, I will sit down with him and have a proper chat."
Boullier said the Australian driver could help his team challenge Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari at the pointy end of the grid.
It is the qualities that have sometimes ruffled the feathers of his team and rivals that attract Boullier.
He says Webber would help take Renault, currently a top-five team, to the next level.
"I know Mark very well and I really value him as both a guy and a driver," Boullier said.
"I do share a lot with him and he is a very cool guy. A very normal guy. He isn't an F1 diva.
"I really like him and I have known him for a long time."
German Nick Heidfield is Renault's No. 1 driver, backed by Vitaly Petrov, who was recruited to the team after Robert Kubica injured his hand in a rally accident. Kubica remains contracted to the team but it is unknown whether or not he will be able to make it back following his shocking accident.
Webber will soon make a decision on his future.
Although he turns 35 this year, he remains as fit and capable as ever.
"I will decide in the coming months," he said. "Ferrari radiates something special, but the most sense would be to stay at Red Bull."

[Martin_D]

That - move to Renault - would effectively spell the end for Webbers F1 career one would think

[mmciau]

That - move to Renault - would effectively spell the end for Webbers F1 career one would think

Agreed, he's better off where he is and should stay unless he's pushed out by Red Bull.

Mike

[seldo]

Being pushed is one thing ...to jump would be lunacy. But I can't really see them wanting to give Mark a push since he's (relatively) cheap, he's quick, he doesn't prang them too often, and let's face it - only one team member can win at a time. It's not as if they can do a lot to improve their standing.
Hamilton would cost probably twice as much as Mark for start, and may not necessarily fit in as well with the team members, being a bit more ambitious and cocky than Mark

[seldo]

I also note that of this season's 8 races so far, Webber has had fastest lap in 4 of them, and 1 each for Vettel, Massa, Button and Hamilton.

[Delft Maloo]

I actually wouldnt mind seeing webber jump ship, he might not win again if he does but it would be good to see if he can improve another teams results and lift them up the ranks a bit more, i believe he has the talent to help develope a better car through his driving skill and feed back.

[hRTHSV]

I think he's nearly at the end of his career anyway, I don't think he's going to win a championship with Vettel as team mate, it doesn't appear he is that happy with his situation either which is probably also affecting his driving. So why not take a pay rise (plan for retirement) else where if it's on offer, and see how he goes, surely his car couldn't have anymore problems than it does now. I don't think the Renault is that bad and lets face it he hasn't won anything this year where he is.

Being 2nd to Vettel all the time also means he can't pit when he wants because the first car always get preference, think safety car.

[seldo]

I actually wouldnt mind seeing webber jump ship, he might not win again if he does but it would be good to see if he can improve another teams results and lift them up the ranks a bit more, i believe he has the talent to help develope a better car through his driving skill and feed back.Yes - good point

[lme01]

Yes - good point

Totally agree
+2

[lme01]

I think he's nearly at the end of his career anyway, .

don't agree. :)

[Martin_D]

I also note that of this season's 8 races so far, Webber has had fastest lap in 4 of them, and 1 each for Vettel, Massa, Button and Hamilton.

That probably shows a flaw in Webbers technique more than anything, using the tyre too hard and pushing it over the edge early. There has to be a reason why his race pace is so far off the bump this year but he has fastest laps....and hes not complaining about the car overly for a chane (neither he should!)

[Martin_D]

I think he's nearly at the end of his career anyway, I don't think he's going to win a championship with Vettel as team mate, it doesn't appear he is that happy with his situation either which is probably also affecting his driving.

If you were getting consistently put into the floor by your team mate - where it matters - on the podium - you wouldnt be walking around whistling Dixie either so its no wonder Webber isnt the smilie face poster boy.

As far as Webber leaving to go to a losing team being fine so he doesnt have to compete and winning isnt expected of him......thats simply piss weak and un-Australian. What he needs to do is get out there and kick some Vettel butt, not lay down and take it or run away and hide. Kick it, dont kiss it. If he can't then sports other than F1 beckon :cool: