Orion Falcon Launch (17 Feb 2008)

[ti0350]

I like some of the features but the body looks to much like an update to the BF rather then a new model..

[Big_Valven]

The overhangs are abysmal, as are the wheel arches. Most designers are looking to minimise overhangs in a styling decision I can only congratulate, whereas this looks worse than the BF overhang. Bit stone age if you ask me.

[macca33]

Overall, I like the design and what it appears they have done with the drivelines/powerplants. The rear spoiler on both the XRs and FPV cars look heaps better than the tacked-on VE ones.

We'll see how they compare when they can be independently tested.

Cheers,

Macca

[vxleather]

It simply dosn't look tuff any more......... The Ba/Bf had a distinct tuff look about them..........

[hoon69]

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454869
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454870
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454863
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454873
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454875

[greenfoam]

I think it's allright, but I prefer the BA over the VE or this

[hsvgts196]

I saw a couple of them at Fowles Auctions over the weekend whilst I was looking for a car for the Mrs.

Had me buggered when I saw them there as they were 2nd handies but barely 2 minutes old. What the...? Obviously a couple of people found out that they didn't like them very quickly.

[hoon69]

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454887
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454885

[Covert]

I saw a couple of them at Fowles Auctions over the weekend whilst I was looking for a car for the Mrs.

Had me buggered when I saw them there as they were 2nd handies but barely 2 minutes old. What the...? Obviously a couple of people found out that they didn't like them very quickly.

Wow, sales don't start until May and there are already second hand ones around.

:confused:

[lowriding]

I saw a couple of them at Fowles Auctions over the weekend whilst I was looking for a car for the Mrs.

Had me buggered when I saw them there as they were 2nd handies but barely 2 minutes old. What the...? Obviously a couple of people found out that they didn't like them very quickly.

that was probably a Mondeo ,considering they are not on sale yet !

[hoon69]

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454928
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454933
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454942
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454945

[Venom XR]

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/17/FPV_GT1_m_m.jpg

[quantanemo]

I need 10 post to post a pic...this will do it

These pics is the best one ive seen...finally some angles that give it justice!!

F6
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/sdw.jpg

XR8
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/orianxr6.jpg

[naddis01]

I saw a couple of them at Fowles Auctions over the weekend whilst I was looking for a car for the Mrs.

Had me buggered when I saw them there as they were 2nd handies but barely 2 minutes old. What the...? Obviously a couple of people found out that they didn't like them very quickly.

Are you for real??? Ah ha ha ha. They arent even on sale yet. This is only a reveal not a release

[sh|tbmxrider]

I need 10 post to post a pic...this will do it

These pics is the best one ive seen...finally some angles that give it justice!!

F6
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/sdw.jpg

XR8
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/orianxr6.jpg




the XR6T/XR8 looks FAR better on those optional 5 spoke" 19"s....rather than the xr5t spec 18"s

I think the G6ET will be a good seller...dark colours, 19"s, luxo rocket...

And the anti-lag and launch control has my interest up...

[jaykay]

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454869

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=454863


Does anyone else think the interior looks :spew: ???

IMO it looks cheap and really plastickky.

[naddis01]

That is the base XT. Check out the up spec models and see what you think

[sh|tbmxrider]

That is the base XT. Check out the up spec models and see what you think



and, id say a VE dash with as poor a quality photo wouldnt look to (wait for it...) FLASH either




heheh

[dadem0n]

No more plasticky than a cheap Omega!!!

VE:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Holden_VE_Commodore_Omega_interior_01.jpg/800px-Holden_VE_Commodore_Omega_interior_01.jpg

[holden6.0]

Does anyone else think the interior looks :spew: ???

IMO it looks cheap and really plastickky.

yep totally agree

[XLR8 V8]

Nice that even the base model XT gets climate control and the 5spd. Will no doubt be a trigger for Holden to do the same with their base model Omega

[Carby650]

No more plasticky than a cheap Omega!!!

VE:


Hand brake is the worst thing. They gotta do somethng about that. I have not read a VE review that hasn't bagged the handbrake position and how sharp it is.
Anywho back to the Fraud.

[vxclubsport569]

I was a huge fan of the BA/BF interior look across the whole range

Was far more intergrated and classy than the VY/VZ and I personally preferred it over the VE, but on first looks this is a step backwards and I see some hint of AU lines coming back.....

Exterior is looking good, expecially the higher spec and performance models

[Steve-LS2]

I need 10 post to post a pic...this will do it

These pics is the best one ive seen...finally some angles that give it justice!!

F6
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/sdw.jpg

Aurion Sport
http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/10/26/aurionS1m_m.jpg

XR8
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/orianxr6.jpg

wow how boring, the blue one looks like an Aurion sport and the yellow one looks like a Mazda SP23 crossed with a Camry.

I can't find any photos of a Mazda on the same angle to compare, i don't like the new Falcon, i agree with a lot of people on here about how it just doesn't look new.

It still has the same roof lines as the BA/F and almost the same front as the BF and the back looks very much like a Camry, only not the new model, the awful one previos to that.

The FPV's all look bloody terrible, and even though the G6E sounds like a ball tearer, has anyone found out the Kerb Weight that poor Turbo 6 will be lugging around? It's gonna need a bootload of torque.

I don't think it's gonna sell that well, none of the V8 supercar teams will be running the FG this season so it will be another 12 months before we see anything on the track.

Cheers

Steve

[blackxr]

That Phoon looks awesome.
I want one now.
XR6T with 270 and phoon 300plus these are gunna be weapons.
V8 im not expecting much but will wait and see.

I think with the new features it is a better car than the VE but not sure
on the looks yet will wait for the Melb motor show as i didn't like the VE in the first photos.

Will see what Holden will do the leap over again.

My guess will be another limited edition.

Must hold the record for most Limited editions

[quantanemo]

I think its not that the F6 looks like the Aurion - I thinks thats how modern car styling is going

http://www.zcars.com.au/images/20th-anniversary-hsv-clubsport-r8.jpg

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/10/26/aurionS1m_m.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/sdw.jpg

And here are pics of the G6E interior...

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/15/G6E-Turbo1_L_700.jpg

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/15/G6E-Turbo2_L_700.jpg

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/15/G6E-Turbo7_L_700.jpg

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/15/G6E-Turbo8_L_700.jpg

[RED R8]

I still dont like the dash layout I prefered the BA/Bf they may look like the TRD Aurion but I like the TRD if it was a 300kw RWD V8 I would buy the TRD in a flash.

[Ls1CorpCruiser]

Without sounding totally one-eyed I really am not impressed.

Honeslty thought with the way Ford was heading, downward spiral, axing the long wheelbase models, then the V8 option in all but the XR8 and FPV range that the new "G" series would be breathtaking....

Well it doesnt do it for me...

The exterior shots make the car look smaller than it probably really is, yes agree the wheel arches are too small, the rear doors look awkward, the hump front end looks out of proportion to the front of the car, the two tone panda face of the FPV's look very Aurion, VE, VZ.

Interior of the base model is way too plasticky even compared to the poor photo of the VE, even the airbag cover doesnt math the rest of the interior.

The upmarket model isnt much better... the ebony/onyx accents look cheap and the two tone leather is..... well nothing new!!!

It will sell to the Ford diehards and the sport models will probably lure a few new Ford customers but I dont think Holden have anything to worry about.

:)

Still.. they always look different in the flesh

[holden6.0]

is the battery on theses gonna be in boot too?

[quantanemo]

I think for a few people, if the Ford badge was changed to a Holden/HSV badge all the little I dont like it, nitpicking comments would not be said (often reversed). But fair enough - it happens both ways.

Three types of ppl..

They praise anything Ford and wont give credit where credit is due to Holden
They praise anything Holden and wont give credit where credit is due to Ford
Ppl that are partial to one brand but respect and give credit where credit is due to the other

Lets not forget the basic FG design was signed off way before VE and Aurion sport were released....

[hsvgts196]

Wow, sales don't start until May and there are already second hand ones around.

:confused:

Not being into Taxi's (Fords) I didn't give it a 2nd thought but after watching the news tonight about the "launch", it had me buggered too. They had the blue oval and the funny shaped new head lights which was what caught my attention.

[Bogan]

It is Absolutly discusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like a old style nissan rear and a Camry front on steriods, the front looks rediculous... Looks like a big pimple attached to the front of the car that needs squeezing...

Do not like it at all.... the ba / bf Xr8 actualy looked square and tuff, these are just down right gay......

the front looks like a subaru liberty actually :confused:

[Martin_D]

This is no more an upgrade than VY - VZ was....in fact that was bigger as at least in the VZ range different six and eight cylinder engines were introduced. As a 'new family or vehicles' this mild facelift misses the mark by miles, and is a clear indication that Ford Aus is struggling for money. Competitor for VE? Not likely! :eek:

[sandmanls1]

while I am not one eyed ford or holden, I agree I think they have missed the mark and unfortunately may be the death knell for a local Falcon. Was optimistic based on early shots, but it doens't look different enough from the BA, especially the front and rear, perhaps only the side view. What is with the wheel covers on the XT, they look like AU Series 2 ones, must be for the taxi pack. I can't see what will appeal to the average Joe private buyer? Kudos for the five speed auto and climate control etc on the base model as well as side airbags. I'm sure it will be a awesome drive, esp the turbo but will that be enough. I know the diesel was not cost competiitive but would have been nice to see it. Holden might get the jump here. As we saw with the 380 a car that drives well is not enough to save it. Not convinced entirely on the interior, some of the gaps don't quite match either. For a lauch car I would have been anal on that. I guess the proof will be in the pudding in terms of sales. They should also fire their wheel designers - pukey.... Not 20's optional anywhere unlike VE? Launch control and anti-lag sounds good. What happens to Mr Middle Manager who normally got a Fairmont, - now G6 or XR6 etc? And pity the LPG still can't get 5 speed and ESC as others have pointed out, also the utes. One up to Holden here as well, yet FPV utes will get it.

And yes front end of the FPV - yuck crying out for a colour code what were they thinking?

I think the Mondeo might canabalise some sales also based on its size, diesel and interior room.

[HSE2]

They haven't released all the facts on these new cars yet but it seems like the engineering underneath the car will make it a tough competitor for the VE in terms of driving.

The interior. It’s the hardest thing to judge on photos because so much of it is about touch and feel. There are some shots that do make the plastic quality look questionable but overall the design is modern. VE stuck with a design that has been around for a while and personally I would have liked them to push the boundaries more. I understand that creates some conflict but overall on design, the FG interior is fresher then the VE. It would want to be too. For Ford people much of the VE lay out had been in their camp since 2002 so it fairness to Ford they needed to move it on further then Holden did.
While the VE looked good in the pics, in the flesh the plastic was a real let down for a brand new model. Holden never made the ground I was expecting that’s for sure.
Still on the interior many of the new features just brings the Ford product up to where Holden have been for some time and in the upper models like V spec cars there seems to be a lack of expected features from the Ford camp in comparison. With no LWB cars that is extremely disappointing.

Have very little time for the Sport versions of the Ve. Ugly front treatment in my eyes. Omega and Calais exceptional in comparison.

Same now applies to the Ford range. Didn't change my mind after seeing VE in the flesh so I don’t expect I will with FG either.

The Utes and the XT are probably the stand out cars in comparison. The XT is a lot of car for a base model provided in the flesh it looks new enough. Pictures don’t really show that. I suspect those Fords in at the auction house were BF2. Similar headlight treatment from a distance with perhaps 1.5 eyes functioning. If true therein lies a problem.

The front over hang proportions weren't an issue for me with either BF or Au but I have to say there are some shots of the XR cars that really look off with FG. Not a fan of the XR front treatment below the headlights at all. For me the worst looking XR, probably ever. Rear doesn't have much going for it either although I do like the tail light shape.

FPV- well so much of the car looks to be carry over its hard to tell what we are looking at. No fresh exhaust tip designs or wheel designs, no real interior separation, seats look like carry over items. Against the massive spend by HSV it looks thin in the substance department.

F6 will probably be very quick if the XR6 developments are anything to go by. LS3 probably won’t be enough against or at least it will be very close but it will certainly stretch the F6 further then the BOSS will.

Other than that, in principal I don’t mind the racoon eyes. Prefer that look to the sucked in face look that the guards and spoiler of the HSV cars give. They require wider definition in the front to match the guards bit like C63.

Silver and black GT shows how good the FPV cars might look in the right colour. CSV LS1 wheel chop shows aftermarket potential.

Single sentence sum up on the FPV cars. Visual statement gives HSV effort more definition and praise with separation from base models intent.

Single sentence sum up on the Ford cars.
Ford will probably regain the ride / handling crown across most of the range.

[O5BRKY]

Interesting
Ford R6, HSV R8
Ford G6E, Pontiac G8??


Looks ok, much better than the AU.

[HSVMAN]

Single sentence sum up on the Ford cars.
Ford will probably regain the ride / handling crown across most of the range.

Agree with much of what you say but your last comment not...
Yes they will have improved the handling by quite a bit. The one thing you cannot escape however is the nose heavyness. All the modifications in the world cannot change the laws of physics but in saying that most people wont notice.

Just like most people wont notice it's a new model.

Overall I think the G6E is the best looking with the rest barely raising interest.
Well done Ford though and I hope they regain some sales from the FWD brigade

[HSE2]

Agree with much of what you say but your last comment not...
Yes they will have improved the handling by quite a bit. The one thing you cannot escape however is the nose heavyness. All the modifications in the world cannot change the laws of physics but in saying that most people wont notice.



In your assumption did you calculate that over 22 kg have been cut from this area? So when you say all the modifications in the world won’t fix nose heaviness I assume that is excluding actual weight reduction in that area? It’s a complete new front end. Nothing is the same including track. It’s no modification.
There has been a lot of work done to that front end and when I say most of the range, the part I leave out is the now very limited V8 models.
Until proven incorrect I stand by my prediction. I will be happy to say I am wrong at that time. On paper the ride handling will be superior and for the six cylinder BF cars there wasn’t that big of a balance issue in the first place. FG seems to be a significant change over BF in the area of concern.

[hoon69]

Are you for real??? Ah ha ha ha. They arent even on sale yet. This is only a reveal not a release
exactly,i think someones been looking at a few cars albeit toyotas and mistaken them for new fords.

they have not been released!

[HSVMAN]

In your assumption did you calculate that over 22 kg have been cut from this area? So when you say all the modifications in the world won’t fix nose heaviness I assume that is excluding actual weight reduction in that area? It’s a complete new front end. Nothing is the same including track. It’s no modification.
There has been a lot of work done to that front end and when I say most of the range, the part I leave out is the now very limited V8 models.
Until proven incorrect I stand by my prediction. I will be happy to say I am wrong at that time. On paper the ride handling will be superior and for the six cylinder BF cars there wasn’t that big of a balance issue in the first place. FG seems to be a significant change over BF in the area of concern.

Yes I am aware of all that but it doesnt change the weight distribution. Regardless of being a whopping 22kgs lighter (of which only part of that will be reduced from in front of the axle) all that weight hangs over the front axle which is what all the worlds performance/racing R&D specialists try to avoid.
So unless Ford have stumbled across some sort of gravity defying material, its still there minus a couple of kgs.

I do agree that it will be a better handling car than before but until that big snout is gone (will happen next model) nothing changes

[aaron__aus]

The Signature Bonnet Power Bulge looks off. The nose is too long and the interior does look like cheap brushed platic.

I reckon it will do well in the base range but it looks like it will date fast on some models due to the grey colour under the headlights...

Not bad, but not great.. just an update not a new car.

[HSE2]

The weight reduction is over the front axle. The plastics in front of the front axle are lighter then BF. All up the car is 10kgs heavier but with much better distribution.
If you have the numbers down to a couple of Kgs you have done better than me but not only will punters not tell the difference no other moral will either, which brings us back to track and tune improvements over the BF and remember some jurnos were always split in this area anyway. Still sticking with my prediction. Let’s see how close I am. Oh and VE might get an upgrade between now and April anyway so we will just have to wait and see what the press think.

As far as the snout goes take a nose cone off a BF and nose cone off a VE and weigh them. You’re in for a shock. Causes massive issues in the repair industry. Holden’s bar plastics are a better quality and heavier IMO. Don’t appear to need the bracing in the oven like the FPV ones that for sure.

[Holden Man]

The trayback XR6 ute looks good ... not a fan or the rest of the shots at all ... especially the side profile shot of the XR8

What's with the placement of the aerial on the utes though? Looks like a real afterthought and detracts from otherwise smooth lines of the front end

The one tonner was the only pic where I thought "WOW that looks pretty cool".....the rest....hhhmmmm......will have to wait and see in the flesh.

To be fair the VE has never really looked as good in pics as it does in real life.

[ryno]

I think when he refers to the snout it isn't to do with the weight of the front end but the distance from the tyre to the front. The Ford still retains a reasonable overhang front and rear making it harder to distribute the weight than a vehicle that has its wheels placed in the four corners.

This isn't to say that it won't handle better, it is just going to make it hard to compete when your running on older design principles.

[EddieVE06]

Hmmm, i'm really dissapointed with the new Falcon. I dont know what it is about it, whether the pictures dont do it justice or it really is a dissapointing looking car.
The side view of the XR8 in this thread makes it look really akward,
Some of the interior shots and yes i admit it is the base model look really bad, just the plastic bits being different colour, there seems to be alot of mix and match bits stuck together.

I was expecting a different look from the new Falcon. I'm going to wait to see it in the flesh once released coz i dont have words for it atm.

I thought the new Falcon would make the VE look a lot more dated but I dont think thats the case.

[VY18s]

I need 10 post to post a pic...this will do it

These pics is the best one ive seen...finally some angles that give it justice!!

F6
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/CheeseBurger007/sdw.jpg

By squinting your eyes (Or placing your hand over the front), the F6 likes awfully like a VY Clubsport.:confused:

Also does anyone know if the FG is a ground up build, like the VE? or is it still on the BF platform?



I thought the new Falcon would make the VE look a lot more dated but I dont think thats the case.

That's exactly what I thought too.

[Danv8]

By squinting your eyes, the F6 likes awfully like a VY Clubsport.:confused:

Also does anyone know if the FG is a groud up build, like the VE? or is it still on the BF platform?

Still on the AU-BF platform.

[Darkrayne]

The falcon XR range are starting to look rounded off like the sv mustang cobras of the past.. and the FPV's look like their wearing ultimate warrior face paint lol.. definately something unique! :|.. SSV for the win!

[his gts]

This is no more an upgrade than VY - VZ was....in fact that was bigger as at least in the VZ range different six and eight cylinder engines were introduced. As a 'new family or vehicles' this mild facelift misses the mark by miles, and is a clear indication that Ford Aus is struggling for money. Competitor for VE? Not likely! :eek:

I certainly have to agree. I was a keen ford man for many years and decided to jump ship. Glad I did as the ve gts is an excellent car. Have seen all the hype surrounding the new falcon and I am not that fussed. It seems the change isnt that huge. The new FPVs look alot nicer from the front, but if I walked passed the XRs on the street I would have thought it was a BA/BF series. Hopefully the sales will pick up for Ford as they need it. I think the only thing that may drive the sales will be the extra power they have thrown at it.If those figures dont prove themselves they may as well shut up shop. Maybe a huge re shuffle in the company wouldnt go astray.

[mustanger]

The main problem with Ford is that they are always playing catch up . Instead of being a leader ,they are always following what the others are doing . I personally don`t think there is anything wrong with the new model,just that it is not setting a new a new benchmark.:idea:

[team illucid]

I think they are just as ugly as the VE.

[Freaky]

Wonder how the v8s will sound with this -

"Semi Active Muffler - The introduction of the Boss 290 engine to the XR8 is complemented by a revised exhaust system with an all-new Semi Active Muffler (SAM).

The SAM comprises a cylindrical valve that is mounted on the muffler end-plate protruding inside the intermediate muffler, which opens and closes to change the vehicle's exhaust sound characteristics.

At low engine speeds (low rpm), the spring loaded valve remains closed, forcing the exhaust gasses to pass through a series of baffles in the intermediate muffler.

At higher engine speeds (above 2800 rpm) the exhaust gas back pressure opens the valve, offering an alternate path for the exhaust gasses to pass through the muffler.

As a result the SAM provides a quiet internal cabin environment at idle and low engine speeds, while allowing a full, throaty V8 sound quality to be appreciated at higher engine speeds.

Typically, SAM valves have been the exclusive domain of high-priced, sports cars such as the Aston Martin V8 Vantage and Jaguar XK8, which both employ similar systems.

The semi-active muffler system on the XR8 is a first for the Australian auto industry in a locally-manufactured vehicle and delivers a best-in-class sound quality with an unsurpassed, sporty V8 exhaust note. "

[HSVMAN]

The weight reduction is over the front axle. The plastics in front of the front axle are lighter then BF. All up the car is 10kgs heavier but with much better distribution.
If you have the numbers down to a couple of Kgs you have done better than me but not only will punters not tell the difference no other moral will either, which brings us back to track and tune improvements over the BF and remember some jurnos were always split in this area anyway. Still sticking with my prediction. Let’s see how close I am. Oh and VE might get an upgrade between now and April anyway so we will just have to wait and see what the press think.

As far as the snout goes take a nose cone off a BF and nose cone off a VE and weigh them. You’re in for a shock. Causes massive issues in the repair industry. Holden’s bar plastics are a better quality and heavier IMO. Don’t appear to need the bracing in the oven like the FPV ones that for sure.

So youre saying the substantial overhang of the Falcon is no heavier? Even with a good proportion of its inline 6 sitting past the front axle?
Sorry but it doesnt add up whichever way you like to try and explain it.

The "nose cone" is a small part of the equation. Think of everything else inside it ie a decent portion of a heavy cast iron block with all the bolt-ons.
Rather than getting defensive, be realistic about it which is all I am doing.

As I said before, I like the G6E and I like what they have endeavoured to do with the limitations of keeping with an existing platform.

[Funky_Munky]

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/17/FPV_GT1_m_m.jpg

Holy farking crap!

That is one sweet looking car. In all honesty, I have to say it looks way better than any E Series HSV Ive seen yet.

[HSVMAN]

Hmmm, i'm really dissapointed with the new Falcon. I dont know what it is about it, whether the pictures dont do it justice or it really is a dissapointing looking car.
The side view of the XR8 in this thread makes it look really akward,
Some of the interior shots and yes i admit it is the base model look really bad, just the plastic bits being different colour, there seems to be alot of mix and match bits stuck together.

I was expecting a different look from the new Falcon. I'm going to wait to see it in the flesh once released coz i dont have words for it atm.

I thought the new Falcon would make the VE look a lot more dated but I dont think thats the case.

A lot of people were thinking (and hoping) that it would be drastically different and I tried telling some it wouldnt be. I'm not surprised how it looks at all but I still like it despite the aged look of the wheel base/body stance.
It will look better in the flesh IMO

[RABSP]

I Guess the list is out.

You will find the full range here.

well i tried to put the link, but i have not got 10 posts so i cannot, but themotorreport,com,au is where you will find them.

[Penko]

hey guys

just want to make sure this is a completly new car isn't it, like the ve, its not a face lift is it?

and also does any one know the suspected power output of the new typhoon?

cheers

[Holden Man]

I really hope we are not looking at the next "380".

[HSE2]

I think when he refers to the snout it isn't to do with the weight of the front end but the distance from the tyre to the front. The Ford still retains a reasonable overhang front and rear making it harder to distribute the weight than a vehicle that has its wheels placed in the four corners.

This isn't to say that it won't handle better, it is just going to make it hard to compete when your running on older design principles.

Yeah I know what he means but it basically amounts to nothing as far as road cars go. I will be the first to admit in FG form it’s not that attractive. To make those comments you have to actually know how much weight is behind and in front of the centre point of the wheels and that’s impossible to measure.

Removing the battery say from the front is far more beneficial than a longer cone that has masses of air gap behind it.

To get the weight balance distribution all they do is measure the weight over the front and rear axle. What’s in front and behind doesn't matter as far as a road car is concerned, and I will guarantee will have absolutely nothing to do with handling between the two cars. Placing the wheels out at the corners has far more to do with packaging then returning tangible benefits toward handling in a road car.

If you take my BF GT-P it has more overhang then my AU XR8. The engine in both is about directly over the front axle. Then there is about a 4 inch air gap to the radiator assembly. You then have you lights and in the Fords the battery ahead of the centre line which by itself isn't a light weight. Ahead of that and in the centre line is about 8-10 inches of air with plastic cone crumple stuff which weight 10/10s of sfa. The Au would actually have more weight ahead of the centre line but has about 40 kgs less weight over the axle itself. The difference in handling is noticeable.

When the BA XR6T was launched it was claimed to have a near perfect 50- 50 weight distribution. It was heralded as one of the most neutral cars on the market. Along come’s VE and all of a sudden there is a new benchmark. The handling of the XR6T didn’t go away, the numbers for that car didn’t change but specifically the VE SS rewrote or redefined aspects that contribute towards handling precision. That’s not just one specific area. VE never gained a complete walk over every model against BF2 in this category according to reviews. The engineering under the FG is pretty exceptional but it’s contained in a package thats well let’s see how it’s perceived but I have my reservations.

If you can reduce weight over the front axle or unsprung wheel mass you will make a significant difference to the available tune options. The further you move the weight back toward the centre the more options open up for tuning settings. The lighter you make the front assembly the more options open up for you.

The position of the VE will always have more options available to it to improve the tendency to reduce understeer which is basically the trait we are talking about, without compromising ride quality. The VE currently doesn't make full use of those options. If memory serves me correctly, not all Ve share the same front track measurements.

Given how close the BF got to VE in the ride and handling stakes and assuming VE hasn't been tweaked I still stand by what I have said. I expect the Ford will regain this mantel on all but the V8 models. That’s my opinion based only from what I have read about the new FG and the position the BF had against the VE. It makes no allowance for any tuning that may have snuck in since VE launch.
Time will tell.

[Ghosn]

hey guys

just want to make sure this is a completly new car isn't it, like the ve, its not a face lift is it?

That very question was asked and answered on this page :doh:

[HSE2]

I really hope we are not looking at the next "380".


Thats getting plenty of mention.

[Fnomna]

I really hope we are not looking at the next "380".

Slapping Modeo look onto the Falcon reminds me of when Mitsubishi slapped the Lancer look on the front of the Magna. Maybe not as bad as that though.

http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/9120580.jpg

[Danv8]

Slapping Modeo look onto the Falcon reminds me of when Mitsubishi slapped the Lancer look on the front of the Magna. Maybe not as bad as that though.

http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/9120580.jpg

Dude please! I just had breakfast not long ago.

Oh crap!

:spew:

[mickeyVX350]

Cannot say I am blown away like I hoped to be, the XR8 looks like there is massive carry over, and the side view with the "power(less) bulge" makes the side sillhouette look like a half sucked Twistie (or a doodle!)

Another thing that fails to impress is the front view of the XR's, the grille looks the same as the BA. It seems since they got it soo right with the BA, they have been retreating back to the AU traits that made it a dog, too many shapes and angles, except this time they have woeful rear tail lights with horrid curves, and angular headlamps. Up spec BF's looked like AU fronts and nothing like the goodness of the BA.

probably the biggest thing that annoys me (and it ain't the car) is X series XA-XY, E series EA-EF) then AU, BA, BF, FG. There is never any continuity with the model series.

I just hope that if AU = 'Awfully Ugly' that FG doesn't end up "F*(king Gross"

[EddieVE06]

are the dimensions of the new falcon the same in terms of length, width, height etc. because at times when looking at a VE next to a current falcon its like the VE is just towering over it, almost looking a car class smaller.

[HSE2]

So youre saying the substantial overhang of the Falcon is no heavier? Even with a good proportion of its inline 6 sitting past the front axle?



Nope. I am saying as far as weigh distribution goes it’s not a factor or as much as a factor as basic geometry suspension tune, retained tyre surface contact, reduced sub frame and unsprung mass, is in a road car when it comes to the trade off between ride and handling. We are talking about weight distribution which means balance. So what has happened at the rear of the car and what is the overall weight compared to the VE?

Actually as far as being defensive goes I thought you yourself thought the difference would be so little that average Joe wouldn't pick it. All I am doing is agreeing with you and that I suspect the improvements to all aspects of geometry will be enough to bring this specific title back to the blue corner. Ve really didn't open up that much of a gap did it, well not like the canyon the VE SS opened anyway.
There is nothing to be defensive about. It’s just an opinion mate. What would it matter if I am right anyway?

[Holden Man]

I just read on FF that some guy was going to get the plate "FG GT" but was worried it would end up looking like "FGGT" or faggot !! :rofl:

[quantanemo]

Wonder how the v8s will sound with this -


Heres a nice link - sounds rather nice

http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=35570

[Road Warrior]

Still on the AU-BF platform.

I don't think you can really say that as the front and back of the underpinnings have been changed from the old car to this one. Not to mention the fact that the only parts that were carried over from the AU to the BA were the doors and now they're gone...

[McobraR]

The main problem with Ford is that they are always playing catch up . Instead of being a leader ,they are always following what the others are doing . I personally don`t think there is anything wrong with the new model,just that it is not setting a new a new benchmark.:idea:

playing catchup? VE only caught up with BF, with a better IRS than the previous one used, thus improving its ride complaincy etc, auto trans anyone?. As for benchmark, the VE has raised the bar (though hasn't beaten the BF in every category in terms of what i stated earlier), and will be intersting if the FG can as well, dont think anyone can say they that Ford isn't setting a new benchmark if no one has even tested the FG yet. But in terms of looks... looks good, not outstanding, should look better in the flesh tho, if not, then thats one benchmark they've lost already.

[Carby]

I stand by my prediction. I will be happy to say I am wrong at that time. On paper the ride handling will be superior and for the six cylinder BF cars there wasn’t that big of a balance issue in the first place. FG seems to be a significant change over BF in the area of concern.

It's only a prediction HSE2 and your entitled to it. They have not quoted any weight bias front to rear I'd like to see those figures because one thing about the VE that is so evident is that it is so beautifully Balanced.

Better than the VE? we'll see.....

[EXCESSV]

funnily enough on the plane back from melb yesterday i was amongst 3 dealer principles from WA that were returning back to perth after the Dealer Launch at the exhibition centre in melb on saturday

we got chatting and all three expressed concerns and disappointment for the new falcon

they were really looking for this car to claw back the private sales as they have lost alot especially to the VE and some to the toyota

instead they got some cosmetic changes to the BA/BF with some improvements but still not enough to claw back some private sales

It's only a prediction HSE2 and your entitled to it. They have not quoted any weight bias front to rear I'd like to see those figures because one thing about the VE that is so evident is that it is so beautifully Balanced.

Better than the VE? we'll see.....i cant remember the exact figures but from a suspension point of view the VE is equal weight on all 4 corners allowing excellent balance

[HSVMAN]

Nope. I am saying as far as weigh distribution goes it’s not a factor or as much as a factor as basic geometry suspension tune, retained tyre surface contact, reduced sub frame and unsprung mass, is in a road car when it comes to the trade off between ride and handling. We are talking about weight distribution which means balance. So what has happened at the rear of the car and what is the overall weight compared to the VE?

Actually as far as being defensive goes I thought you yourself thought the difference would be so little that average Joe wouldn't pick it. All I am doing is agreeing with you and that I suspect the improvements to all aspects of geometry will be enough to bring this specific title back to the blue corner. Ve really didn't open up that much of a gap did it, well not like the canyon the VE SS opened anyway.
There is nothing to be defensive about. It’s just an opinion mate. What would it matter if I am right anyway?

Yes the difference would only be noticed by enthusiasts, which is what most people on sites like this are.
We do however only make up a tiny fraction of the total market.
Weight distribution is mostly important in the performance world so the majority of drivers who only drive from A-B wont notice even the current model difference to a perfectly balanced car such as VE SV6 for example.
In terms of gaining true performace improvements, compromises have to be made in suspension/steering geometry.
You simply cannot escape weight distribution as a factor in handling and of course overall weight which is effected by a number of other factors - but thats another story and I was only talking about the big snout which is full of metal - any way you want to look at it.

You can bet anything you like that the next ground-up new Falcon will have the front axle moved forward so its V6 can sit back and down further.

[VESportswagon20]

The FG Falcon hasn't really beaten Holden in anything apart from areas that Holden Could do with just a mild spec change to the Omega. Opt for the SV6 motor and transmission. Easy Peasy. Add the climate control system from the Berlina and there you have it. We all know that when the sportwagon comes out that all varients of that will have 4 airbags minimum so Omega sedan will also come with them and rear parking sensors are also sandard on all wagons so expect the sedan to crry them as well. Already the Lumina special edition has them so everything is there for Holden to do is already to go with the sgning off of those features to be changed from options to standard or as a no cost option. Also wouldn't surprise me to see the 3.6 from The Caddy CTS added to the VE and of course one of our favorites the D.O.D on the V8's to make a appearance maybe as soon as the Melbourne Motor Show in 11 days time. Holden dont even need to do a model change to sign these things off for nclusion in the VE.

[FireArc]

Hi guys first post here,

The FG doesn't look too bad; a set of nice rims, lowered and you are off and running. There is no doubt the I6T engines are going to be weapons on the track even stock; look what a simple custom tune can do for the BA/BF range. These days the war (as enthusiasts see it) is won in the aftermarket and the FG range is also subtle enough to win buyers over but not quite in-your-face like i have found the VE is. For many the VE is either love it or hate it with no in between.

Anyway, i dont have access to post pictures yet, but i was over looking on AFF and there are some pretty cool photo-shops of the new Fords lowered and with rims etc. If someone has an account on both sites maybe they can jump across and slap em up here for peoples opinions?

Just go here on AFF (dont have access to post links either yet):

Log into AFF -> Orion Knowledge Hub -> Orion Photoshop Thread

Cheers guys, the forum looks good!

[Brass Munky]

Images from the 'other' site....

http://aycu26.webshots.com/image/44225/2003831659698851112_rs.jpg

http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/43987/2003859379131253124_rs.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/User7nik/Myg6et.jpg

http://www.cruisingbrisbane.com/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2008/post-598-1203227547_thumb.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5143/gcoupehl9.jpg

http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/43112/2005614478888546818_rs.jpg

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/17/FPV_GT1_m_m.jpg/img][img]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/Jastel/FPV_GT1chop1.jpg

I still havnt decided my thoughts, ive just had a die hard ford fan bashing my ear about how great it is and how its going to beat the VE, cos the only reason holdens sell so well is cos bogans buy them, and bogans will buy anything with an AC/DC soundtrack......

[Mikhael]

You can bet anything you like that the next ground-up new Falcon will have the front axle moved forward so its V6 can sit back and down further.


Keep your fingers crossed there is one.........

[VY18s]

I still havnt decided my thoughts, ive just had a die hard ford fan bashing my ear about how great it is and how its going to beat the VE, cos the only reason holdens sell so well is cos bogans buy them, and bogans will buy anything with an AC/DC soundtrack......

Did you tell him bogans buy Fords aswell? (XD Falcon a Ford bogan's wet dream hehehe, but it's good). lol typical Ford fan.

Anyway those chops look very well done. Hell if I was in the market for a ute, the FG one tonner would be the #1 choice I think.

Overall I can't fault the utes at all.

[ssdamo]

that g6et looks awesome. they look like the wheels off the xr5 anyone know what size they will be and wether they are standard or an option ?

[Evman]

playing catchup? VE only caught up with BF, with a better IRS than the previous one used, thus improving its ride complaincy etc, auto trans anyone?

:doh: I can't stand this "catch up" crap. I think it's pretty fair to say it's more of a "leap-frog" situation, where each time the other gets ahead. Don't forget that in just about every comparison the VY/Z performance models (including HSV) were picked as the better on the track, with as you said, the Fords having better on road comfort, etc.

I dont like;
- the propotions (they couldn't get away from the overhangs, I know)
- they all look very under-tyred, and don't like the rim choices
- lack of model diferentiation in the bodykits
- the crease in the well-bodied ute tray side (the 1-tonner is going to look good with big rims and on its guts though)
- the bonnet bulge (I've never liked the way it tapers down at the back, but now it doesn't even stand out enough, it's been too 'smoothed')
- the indicator/wiper stalks and centre stacks
- the triangle indicators on the front guards
- the antenna location on the ute...
- the side profile (comes across as very droopy, like the AU)
- the fact that the turbo 6's are gonna be hard to beat down the track...

I do like;
- The 'badger' look of the FPV, but (as always) I hate the stickers
- Most other things about it...

[ssdamo]

that g6et looks awesome. they look like the wheels off the xr5 anyone know what size they will be and wether they are standard or an option ?
hmmmm fairmont ghia with a dyrer on the side i likey

[FireArc]

lol typical Ford fan.



Unfortunately you will get that almost everywhere you go (including Holden sites) and not just related to cars. It's just the way it is, people get passionate about things

[Evman]

I gotta hand it to Ford for losing weight, something that Holden might need to look at, especially seeing as they have the international sales volumes that they've achieved...Alluminium suspension components all the way...

[Mikhael]

hmm ,i just don't know .Will it be a better car ? undoubtedly esp as it has fixed that awful Au/BA shape i.e the roofline . The trayback ute looks good ,the base model looks tidier compared to the ancient BF,the bonnet bulge on the XR8 just looks silly . I am actually surprised how similar to the outgoing model it looks .It's cleaner imo but looks like a rework ,the interior is incredibly unchanged.:confused: What happened to all the FF spruikers on this site proclaiming an amazing fresh shape to blow the VE and allcomers away?? Will this lot turn around the fortunes of Ford ?


I think the roofline still has traits of AU, especially over the back doors.

The rear view just looks like a facelift of the current Falcon.

[BossV8]

I think Ford's biggest problem is that they do nothing to alter people's PERCEPTION of their cars. They have admitted themselves, that the FG Falcon range is more about whats underneath not the exterior, which is true, and car nuts understand this.

It's the usual plebs and normal folk who just see a car thats not a huge difference from BA-BF that will wonder what the hell they've done. They need to market in a way to alter this perception, and highlight the improvements.

What they need is some marketing guru's from Holden...lol. They really know how to get brand image from an ad.

Other than that, I'm happy with the new range... rear 3/4 panles on sedans I'm still up in the air, but the ute range does it for me- pure horn

[Road Warrior]

If the spec level and fuel consumption figures of the XT are true, I reckon it will wipe the floor with Toyota's front wheel drive pile of shite.

As it stands now I can't believe that it (Camaurion) has gotten away with so many sales from the VE Omega. Toyota's marketing I guess, selling sand to the Arabs.

[ls2maloo]

I just can't see where this car is going to be in say another 3 or 4 years still being based on the au platform.Going to be a huge expense down the track for ford to change it's entire range to accomodate it's next so called big thing.I think people will probably buy cetain models but overall big let down for anyone expecting drastic changes.Geez I love my holden more than ever.

[lowriding]

I think Ford's biggest problem is that they do nothing to alter people's PERCEPTION of their cars. They have admitted themselves, that the FG Falcon range is more about whats underneath not the exterior, which is true, and car nuts understand this.

yeah true but the major underneath stuff people do notice haven't really changed significantly either - engine ,transmissions and really even suspension are largely unchanged to the passing buyer .



It's the usual plebs and normal folk who just see a car thats not a huge difference from BA-BF that will wonder what the hell they've done. They need to market in a way to alter this perception, and highlight the improvements.



yep , that's the business of being in business of selling cars . It's the usual plebs and normal folk who do the 90% of the buying .

regards

[kayman]

Images from the 'other' site....



http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/43112/2005614478888546818_rs.jpg



I'm in loooove!

[Big_Valven]

I'm in loooove!

That ride height and sideskirts sure reminds me of a practical work vehicle...

Anyone have any idea if they're staying with live rear on the wagons and utes? I think Ford buyers finally deserve something better... I know they have their benefits but you think after Holden successfully offering IRS on utes and wagons for nearly 10 years that Ford could figure it out.

[zorro]

would have to say that a trayback XR6T would have a place in my garage next to the red one if I had the cash. nothing like a bit of parity.

I will have to say after the last year driving around in my work car (BF Falcon) I have somewhat gotten to appreciate the interior and overall performance of a taxi pack car. My biggest love is that nothing rattles and the interior actually is hanging together like it should. Ford seem to have the edge in looking after the base model market in recent years and seem to continue that with the new models.

About time they started to use the GT badge like it should and not a gimmick to sell tarted up XR8s

[cbwolf]

Some damn good features in this car.

Multi speed cruise control is good (can increase or decrease the cruise control by 1 km/h or 10km/h so you can easily change to the new speed limit)


This is new? My 2000 Calais does this... :confused:

[Road Warrior]

Anyone have any idea if they're staying with live rear on the wagons and utes? I think Ford buyers finally deserve something better... I know they have their benefits but you think after Holden successfully offering IRS on utes and wagons for nearly 10 years that Ford could figure it out.

So how come Holden went back to leaf springs on the VZ 1 Tonner? Because leafs can lug more weight. Primitive and archaic as leafs are, Fords No. 1 market for the ute is the trade and service industry and they demand load carrying capacity with the flexibility to add their own tray or cargo boxes/modules/whatever.

Personally I wish they would get with the program and at least try a live axle with coils, but while they are still selling 1000 of them a month and making money it doesn't really matter.

[lowriding]

So how come Holden went back to leaf springs on the VZ 1 Tonner? Because leafs can lug more weight. Primitive and archaic as leafs are, Fords No. 1 market for the ute is the trade and service industry and they demand load carrying capacity with the flexibility to add their own tray or cargo boxes/modules/whatever.

Personally I wish they would get with the program and at least try a live axle with coils, but while they are still selling 1000 of them a month and making money it doesn't really matter.


the VZ tonner used leafs as it was a load lugger 1 tonne variant . There's no problem in Ford using leafs for their true workhorses of course but they are out of place and hamper any credibility on the sports variants though.The FPV utes have always been a joke with a live axle as they have stuff all payload anyway. Same applies to XR series .The leaf rear end on the sports models has always been a cop out ,it's really only done for cost .

[naddis01]

yeah true but the major underneath stuff people do notice haven't really changed significantly either - engine ,transmissions and really even suspension are largely unchanged to the passing buyer .




yep , that's the business of being in business of selling cars . It's the usual plebs and normal folk who do the 90% of the buying .

regards

The engines have all increased in power, while acheiving better fuel ecomony. The 4 speed auto has been dropped in favour of a 5 speed (Except Egas) and also a new 6sp manual. The complete from end has been changed. The rear not so much but the control blade (I think its called) suspension is excellent anyway. The VE didnt lift the bar much higher than BF in this regard. As has been mentioned earlier the FG should be ahead in this area again.

Some of the opinions expressed on here are amusing. Some people should wait to see the car in the flesh before they comment. Lets wait to see how it drives for starters before we start saying which is better. I beleive that the FG should lead the VE in alot of key areas, but will wait for the car to be launched before I commit.

[eb_5litre]

Almost makes me want to drive down to the MMS to see them for myself, but that means going to Victoria thus probably receiving 50 speeding fines.
Any clues as to when they'll be reviewed in the mags?
Will be good to see them on the cover of an aussie mag..... it only happens once every 4-5 years what with all the different Holdens they have to show hehe (performanceford excepted)

[Steve-LS2]

Almost makes me want to drive down to the MMS to see them for myself, but that means going to Victoria thus probably receiving 50 speeding fines.

If you drive at the speed limit you wouldn't get any fines:confused:

Any clues as to when they'll be reviewed in the mags? Probably very soon, they will probably do another comparison where they drive top spec models all over the outback only for both the fords to be trailered back to civilization.

Will be good to see them on the cover of an aussie mag..... it only happens once every 4-5 years what with all the different Holdens they have to show hehe (performanceford excepted)
If they made better looking cars i'm sure they would be worth putting on the front of magazines, but if you want it straight, basically magazines with Fords on the front don't sell as much as the do with other cars, it all comes down to money.

Cheers

Steve

[ImpulSSiVZ]

Having only ever bought Holdens my entire life I guess you could assume that I'm Holden through and through.
But, I don't mind the look of the new XR versions from Ford.
It looks alot slicker than the VE SS, more like a VZ I feel.
I like the look that HSV did with the VE, but the SS is not so good.
I could have bought a VE SS but I chose a VZ instead.
The VZ is way less plasticky? on the inside than a VE, plus, it looks alot slicker on the outside.
Before I bought the VZ I also drove XR6T and 8 and they were plasticky as well.
Though, I must admit that the fact the Fords rear seats fold down and the VZ's don't pisses me off a fair bit.
I don't think the VEs rear seat folds down either, correct me if I'm wrong.
Overall, the new Ford looks like a VZ, which really aint too bad.

[sh|tbmxrider]

wow how boring, the blue one looks like an Aurion sport and the yellow one looks like a Mazda SP23 crossed with a Camry.

I can't find any photos of a Mazda on the same angle to compare, i don't like the new Falcon, i agree with a lot of people on here about how it just doesn't look new.

It still has the same roof lines as the BA/F and almost the same front as the BF and the back looks very much like a Camry, only not the new model, the awful one previos to that.

The FPV's all look bloody terrible, and even though the G6E sounds like a ball tearer, has anyone found out the Kerb Weight that poor Turbo 6 will be lugging around? It's gonna need a bootload of torque.

I don't think it's gonna sell that well, none of the V8 supercar teams will be running the FG this season so it will be another 12 months before we see anything on the track.

Cheers

Steve


the range has lost an average of 22kg across the board, i read somewhere...and the 6t motor has lost 10kg by itself...

[HSVMAN]

So how come Holden went back to leaf springs on the VZ 1 Tonner? Because leafs can lug more weight. Primitive and archaic as leafs are, Fords No. 1 market for the ute is the trade and service industry and they demand load carrying capacity with the flexibility to add their own tray or cargo boxes/modules/whatever.

Personally I wish they would get with the program and at least try a live axle with coils, but while they are still selling 1000 of them a month and making money it doesn't really matter.

Because on a One-Tonner, the normal platform stops at the back of the cab. From there its a ladder chassis which is more conducive to leaf spring set-up.
Simple as that really :)
The method of fixing the seperate ladder chassis portion are crucial. Ford ute had a habit of bending at the join if overloaded

[BadMac]

the range has lost an average of 22kg across the board, i read somewhere...and the 6t motor has lost 10kg by itself...

Wrong, the average gain was about 10Kg's. The only loss being reported was 22Kg's in the front suspension (swapped to Aluminium), it was offset by gains in body and equipment levels.

[korrupt]

Any clues as to when they'll be reviewed in the mags?

This months Wheels magazine (on sale 27/02) will have all the launch details, photos, etc. No drive impressions yet though. Like the VE launch, it appears they are dragging things out.

[cutter bob]

Almost makes me want to drive down to the MMS to see them for myself, but that means going to Victoria thus probably receiving 50 speeding fines.



If you drive at the speed limit you wouldn't get any fines:confused:


now where's the fun in that??

[Big_Valven]

the VZ tonner used leafs as it was a load lugger 1 tonne variant . There's no problem in Ford using leafs for their true workhorses of course but they are out of place and hamper any credibility on the sports variants though.The FPV utes have always been a joke with a live axle as they have stuff all payload anyway. Same applies to XR series .The leaf rear end on the sports models has always been a cop out ,it's really only done for cost .

Exactly. Plus you always see a falcon ute full of sand or a wagon full of tools, getting about the place with the back is so sacked that the front is about to lift off the ground, I've see a falcon wagon understeer into a kerb under normal driving conditions because the thing had pitched back so far.

And quite a valid point about the sports models, with lower payload but still the archaic suspension.

And those spouting about interior quality, fair enough if you've had good experiences, but the interior quality of every late model falcon I've driven has put me off Fords long-term. I try not to judge a car by its badge but it's been a trend, even with the sports models I've driven, to have appalling fit and finish and overall refinement of the interior.

[PBoB]

And quite a valid point about the sports models, with lower payload but still the archaic suspension.

And those spouting about interior quality, fair enough if you've had good experiences, but the interior quality of every late model falcon I've driven has put me off Fords long-term. I try not to judge a car by its badge but it's been a trend, even with the sports models I've driven, to have appalling fit and finish and overall refinement of the interior.

I can't say I've experienced bad build quality on any of the BA-BF variants that I've driven, but the reason that the styleside utes have such a low payload capacity even with similar suspension to the trayback ones is because the plastic 'liner' you see in the utes is it - apart from a few steel ribs to reinforce the underside, there is no longer any steel floor in the falcon utes, which is pretty poor IMO, considering many tradies want to buy XR6/XR8's because they can be written off on tax anyways.

[jezza85]

The first thing I heard Monday morning at work from all the FORD drivers was "we would like to see your shit box VE bet one of the new 270kw XR6 turbo's" don;t worry they will see me bet one:flip2:.
Don't mind the front on the new FPV range, looks tough:).

[sh|tbmxrider]

Wrong, the average gain was about 10Kg's. The only loss being reported was 22Kg's in the front suspension (swapped to Aluminium), it was offset by gains in body and equipment levels.



ahh ok...my bad...how does that bring the av. tare weight compared to the commo?

[chrism697]

Exactly. Plus you always see a falcon ute full of sand or a wagon full of tools, getting about the place with the back is so sacked that the front is about to lift off the ground, I've see a falcon wagon understeer into a kerb under normal driving conditions because the thing had pitched back so far.

And quite a valid point about the sports models, with lower payload but still the archaic suspension.

And those spouting about interior quality, fair enough if you've had good experiences, but the interior quality of every late model falcon I've driven has put me off Fords long-term. I try not to judge a car by its badge but it's been a trend, even with the sports models I've driven, to have appalling fit and finish and overall refinement of the interior.
worth noting though that the new falcons I/P is now assembled by a different supplier.....so hopefully that will improve the interior quality over the AU-BF range

[Danv8]

The first thing I heard Monday morning at work from all the FORD drivers was "we would like to see your shit box VE bet one of the new 270kw XR6 turbo's" don;t worry they will see me bet one:flip2:.
Don't mind the front on the new FPV range, looks tough:).

Heh gotta love hot headed Ford fans.
We have a 07 Territory AWD and the first day we got it (2 weeks ago) it broke down on us. The mrs was not happy. :)

[flappist]

If you drive at the speed limit you wouldn't get any fines:confused:

Cheers

Steve

So the $500,000,000 class action against the Victorian Government for incorrectly issued speed camera fines isn't actually happening?

[NODDY347]

The Falcon turbo will probably be a fairly close match against the 6L chev in stock form, now it has the smaller turbo it spools much quicker and the way it delivers its torque is an improvement over the previous engine providing 80% of its torque from 1250rpm. This is all on paper so it will be interesting to see how quick this car will actually be, all depends on what ratios Ford have gone with i suppose. Where will it leave the poor xr8?

[F6Mauz]

The Falcon turbo will probably be a fairly close match against the 6L chev in stock form, now it has the smaller turbo it spools much quicker and the way it delivers its torque is an improvement over the previous engine providing 80% of its torque from 1250rpm. This is all on paper so it will be interesting to see how quick this car will actually be, all depends on what ratios Ford have gone with i suppose.

I would say a auto FG turbo standard won't have any trouble keeping any of the holden/hsv range behind.

Crap, where did i leave my flame retardant suit?:confused:

[hoon69]

http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/46365/2004004498892173650_rs.jpg

[Caprice270]

I feel like buying a run-out BFII GT and Typhoon all of a sudden.

[naddis01]

And those spouting about interior quality, fair enough if you've had good experiences, but the interior quality of every late model falcon I've driven has put me off Fords long-term. I try not to judge a car by its badge but it's been a trend, even with the sports models I've driven, to have appalling fit and finish and overall refinement of the interior.

I have a 5 yr old BA falcon (I assume you would call a late model). It has no rattles at all. I drive down a corrigated dirt road every day on 18" wheels. My mates 6 month old VE SV6 on the other hand has more rattles than my dads 30yr old F100. Surely that says something about the fit and finish.

[Danv8]

I have a 5 yr old BA falcon (I assume you would call a late model). It has no rattles at all. I drive down a corrigated dirt road every day on 18" wheels. My mates 6 month old VE SV6 on the other hand has more rattles than my dads 30yr old F100. Surely that says something about the fit and finish.

It varies from car to car my Calais is over 4 years old and is basically tight as a drum still. Also the 07 Territory is only a baby with only 3000k's on it (ex demo) and has developed an annoying rattle around the dashboard. Again it varies.

[ls2maloo]

I think ford has pulled the wool over over there fans eyes with this fg model ,and I hope you guys like it cause your going to be stuck with it for the next 5-7 years.

[EddieVE06]

I have a 5 yr old BA falcon (I assume you would call a late model). It has no rattles at all. I drive down a corrigated dirt road every day on 18" wheels. My mates 6 month old VE SV6 on the other hand has more rattles than my dads 30yr old F100. Surely that says something about the fit and finish.

Congrats you must have the only Falcon that has been perfectly produced. My cousins territory brand new had a dash rattle from the day he picked it up and still has it 2.5 years later.

thats the only story i have about fords because everyone i know just doesn't drive them, that must tell you something.

I hope Ford have some success with this FG Holden...oops i mean FG Falcon as if this fails all us Holden people will be worse off as the local market will be monopolised with only one local manufacturer who produces a RWD car. At least with ford hopefully pushing the limit holden will have to continually up the ante to stay in touch which will benefit us who buy the cars made here.

[ti0350]

for fords sake I hope they improve their build quality a mate of mine bought brand new BF and sold it 3 months later because he took it back to the dealer 12 times to get stuff fixed in those 3 months.. He will never buy a ford again...

[GPT]

I,ve just come back from Melbourne after going to the preview on
Sunday night.
In the flesh the interior trims are much better than the hard plastics in the BF,but the seats are a letdown.I,m 6'5 and 120kg and the seat bases are just too narrow.Even in a lot of 4 cyl cars I don't have this problem. The FPV seats were shocking and they must of used a jockey to determine how far apart the bolsters should be .

As others have seen from the photos it fails the 20 paces test , park a BF near one and it won't stand out .

[Mad4Monaros]

I wonder if this model comes with the "blown head gasket from factory" feature. :rofl:

[747]

The most info is probably here

http://www.goautomedia.com/mellor/enews.nsf/edition/0207837AE2CCF1C7CA2573F4002FD1D3/$file/GoAutoNews_421.pdf

I am sorry to say it's not as good as I expected... Way too much like a BF update to me, rather than a new model

They will sell well for maybe 6 months and then fall away again in sales figures. There's just not enough to beat the VE in terms of total package.

[eb_5litre]

Yeah because Holden have never had build quality or reliability issues :rofl:
I'm sorry that was a bit low..... I shall RECALL that last comment...... :)

[VY18s]

Yeah because Holden have never had build quality or reliability issues :rofl:
I'm sorry that was a bit low..... I shall RECALL that last comment...... :)

lol a bit harsh, but true.

Still doesn't change the fact the Commodore has been outselling the Falcon for how long now? 12 years? :rofl::rofl:










:)

[demondan]

lol a bit harsh, but true.

Still doesn't change the fact the Commodore has been outselling the Falcon for how long now? 12 years? :rofl::rofl:











:)

And thank god they have outsold the Falcon for that long because you would hate to see just how much debt Holden would be in if that wasn't the case, how many millions was it last financial year and the one before that, just wait till the holwoo experiment really bites them on the ass and all those people who were bitten swear never to buy a Holden again.
It will happen just you wait and see !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hamico]

And thank god they have outsold the Falcon for that long because you would hate to see just how much debt Holden would be in if that wasn't the case, how many millions was it last financial year and the one before that, just wait till the holwoo experiment really bites them on the ass and all those people who were bitten swear never to buy a Holden again.
It will happen just you wait and see !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

waiting.....waiting........waiting...............w ait:sleep::sleep::sleep:

[blackxr]

for fords sake I hope they improve their build quality a mate of mine bought brand new BF and sold it 3 months later because he took it back to the dealer 12 times to get stuff fixed in those 3 months.. He will never buy a ford again...

Mate i would worry just about as much about Holden build quality than Fords.
My dad gets a new SS work car every 6 months to year and the amount we have had to take back due to suspensions problems, exhaust problems, engine problems plus squeaks and rattles all through the back of every one he has owned. Just because you probably think its euro design it made from cheap shit just like the Ford probably is.

My BA has no rattles at all and its about 5 years now.
As another says it varies so i wouldn't put the whole Brand to to some bad cars

[NRD80Y]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/86AF112778951AAECA2573F300206152

Global Ford chief proclaims his love of the new Falcon G6E Turbo that blew his mind

By JAMES STANFORD 19 February 2008

FORD Motor Company president Alan Mulally was so impressed with the new Falcon G6E Turbo that he will drive one in the US.

Any plans to export the new car to America might have fallen over, but the man who calls the shots at the US car giant plans to import one of the new sports-luxury Falcons.

Ford Australia product development vice-president Trevor Worthington told GoAuto about what happened when the ex-Boeing boss called in to check on some FG prototypes at the You Yangs test centre last year, including the new G6E Turbo.

“He went and sat in it and I sat next to him. He is a very considered guy and he sat there for 10 seconds and he said: “There is nothing like this in our company.”

Mr Worthington agreed, before Mr Mulally said: “I want one”.

When Mr Mulally was at Boeing he drove a Lexus, reportedly because he liked the look and feel of the car.

“So when he sat in that (FG Falcon) car and then drove it, he said it was as good as the Lexus he had,” Mr Worthington said.

Mr Mulally was also impressed by the performance of the 270kW boosted Falcon.

“This car had a level of performance that he had never seen before,” Mr Worthington said.

After a rapid test drive, Mr Mulally added “It must be very easy to get tickets in this car.”

Mr Worthington compared the premium Falcon to the Lexus GS which he said was all about a particular look and feel with adequate performance, while the new G6E Turbo “is about the look, the feel and performance that will blow your head off,” he said.

[sandmanls1]

why no g8e - ie luxury V8 to take it to the Calais V, or for FPV to go up against the Senator (like the old Force 8??)

[korrupt]

why no g8e - ie luxury V8 to take it to the Calais V, or for FPV to go up against the Senator (like the old Force 8??)
FPV have the new GT-E to tackle the Senator. No G8E has it would have apparently been too similar to the FPV vehicle.

Check out this article for more... (http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2895006.aspx)

[large]

I find it strange that Ford have dropped the v8 in the luxury range and based most of there performance eggs in the hands of the turbo 6. Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't the Inline six being dropped from the range in 2010 for a new engine?

There V8 just doesn't deliver the goods. The Turbo six is a great engine but bound for obsoletion.

I think they are doomed.

The FG just doesn't go far enough to rescue Ford.

[PBoB]

I find it strange that Ford have dropped the v8 in the luxury range and based most of there performance eggs in the hands of the turbo 6. Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't the Inline six being dropped from the range in 2010 for a new engine?

There V8 just doesn't deliver the goods. The Turbo six is a great engine but bound for obsoletion.

I think they are doomed.

The FG just doesn't go far enough to rescue Ford.

You kind of contradicted yourself there mate, why aren't they keeping the V8 in the luxury range? There V8 just doesn't deliver the goods.

Look at the sales of BA-BF II XR6T Vs XR8 and that will reinforce the answer you gave yourself - the V8's didn't sell as well.

Forgive me if I decide to wait and see from the sales figures as to whether the FG will rescue Ford.

[large]

I did sort of answer my own question didn't I.

It just appears to me that Ford have run out of ideas.
The FG is no "New Benchmark" that it needed to be, to ensure its demand fin the Australian market place. The VE was at least a totally new car that had very few similarities to the VZ other than drivetrain.

I don't understand that if the old model falcon was so unpopular then why would you build one that looks the same.

Unfortunately I think they may be dead in the water as the FG is just too much like the old model.

[HSVMAN]

I did sort of answer my own question didn't I.

It just appears to me that Ford have run out of ideas.
The FG is no "New Benchmark" that it needed to be, to ensure its demand fin the Australian market place. The VE was at least a totally new car that had very few similarities to the VZ other than drivetrain.

I don't understand that if the old model falcon was so unpopular then why would you build one that looks the same.

Unfortunately I think they may be dead in the water as the FG is just too much like the old model.

I agree. While the G6E looks great in some aspects, the side profile and much of the rest of the models dont differentiate themselves enough to say "Look at me I'm new" to the average buyer.

You only have to read all the very dissapointed comments from supposed avid fans on Ford Forums to get an idea of what is happening IMO

[Big_Valven]

I have a 5 yr old BA falcon (I assume you would call a late model). It has no rattles at all. I drive down a corrigated dirt road every day on 18" wheels. My mates 6 month old VE SV6 on the other hand has more rattles than my dads 30yr old F100. Surely that says something about the fit and finish.

Yeah, but surely my experience is valid too? And it just so happens that I haven't had said problems in any holden; hence I shall continue to buy holden until invariably some hack decides he can't be f-ked building my next car properly and it falls to pieces on me.

[PBoB]

I agree. While the G6E looks great in some aspects, the side profile and much of the rest of the models dont differentiate themselves enough to say "Look at me I'm new" to the average buyer.

You only have to read all the very dissapointed comments from supposed avid fans on Ford Forums to get an idea of what is happening IMO

I agree that there weren't many visual changes to the Falcon, but there were a hell of a lot of underlying improvements to the car.

If they are avid fans then they will know about all the changes, ie

1) The roof line was extended in the rear for more entry and exit head room

2) The vastly improved steering system from the Territory

3) XR8's now get the Boss 290 motor from the GT (which was essentially just a better tuned 5.4L)

4) Airbags up the kazoooo

5) A reverse camera standard on G6/G6E

The list goes on and on.


Yeah, but surely my experience is valid too? And it just so happens that I haven't had said problems in any holden; hence I shall continue to buy holden until invariably some hack decides he can't be f-ked building my next car properly and it falls to pieces on me.

Every car manufacturer has their fare share of good and bad eggs, to say that one car manufacturer just makes shit is a generalization and a very one sided view.

I believe that even Kia and Hyundai make good quality cars when they are new, but as they age their inferior parts tend to deteriorate faster than that of a Holden or Ford's.

[VY18s]

Every car manufacturer has their fare share of good and bad eggs, to say that one car manufacturer just makes shit is a generalization and a very one sided view.


Very true.

As much as I love Holden, they have made some bad eggs.

People that generalize a entire brand as shit, can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. More importantly most have driven about a 1/4 of what the brand has to offer, so how can they say every single car is shit?

It's a very narrowminded, and ignorant belief to hold. IMO

[large]

I agree that there weren't many visual changes to the Falcon, but there were a hell of a lot of underlying improvements to the car.

If they are avid fans then they will know about all the changes, ie

1) The roof line was extended in the rear for more entry and exit head room

2) The vastly improved steering system from the Territory

3) XR8's now get the Boss 290 motor from the GT (which was essentially just a better tuned 5.4L)

4) Airbags up the kazoooo

5) A reverse camera standard on G6/G6E

The list goes on and on.



.


Unfortunately the "avid fans" have left them in droves, so they tend to become irrelevant.

I understand there are quite a few excellent upgrades etc to the new Falcon but it lacks "visual impact" which is going to be the main catalyst of whether it is successful or not. A vastly improved steering sytem and more airbags is not that catalyst.

Don't get me wrong, as I would love the new Falcon to be a great success, but I thing it is very underwhelming and even most of the Ford Forum guys are suggesting the same thing.

[VY18s]

I understand there are quite a few excellent upgrades etc to the new Falcon but it lacks "visual impact" which is going to be the main catalyst of whether it is successful or not. A vastly improved steering sytem and more airbags is not that catalyst.


That was the AU Falcon's biggest downfall.

Mechanically there was nothing wrong with it. Have heard it's one of the most reliable Falcons ever made. I still see alot of AU taxis around.

Visually though is what turned many people off it.

[theVman]

Unfortunately the "avid fans" have left them in droves, so they tend to become irrelevant.

I understand there are quite a few excellent upgrades etc to the new Falcon but it lacks "visual impact" which is going to be the main catalyst of whether it is successful or not. A vastly improved steering sytem and more airbags is not that catalyst.

Don't get me wrong, as I would love the new Falcon to be a great success, but I thing it is very underwhelming and even most of the Ford Forum guys are suggesting the same thing.

I dont think its quite that bad, Its not too disimilar to the BA, yeah sure but the BA was a winning formular for Ford. For once they pretty much got it right so to continue that was probably the best way in ensuring that the BG is as successful as the outgoing model ie trying to ensure its not a show stopper for Ford Australia as I would assume this is their last chance. They have tried too hard in the past and it has backfired.

I would imagine the general motoring public will accept the BG improvements with open arms as they have done to bland and 'safe' Toyotas offerings. You certainly see a lot more BA models on the road compared with older model offerings due to their increased popularity and relatively positive reviews from journalists and the like.

FPV models are very wild for a company that has been fairly reserved with the majority of the BG range but a large portion love it. When they hit the market the true success will be revealed, but they must be going close to giving Holden a run - something the market has been missing for avery long time!!

I hope they get some cred amoungst the global Ford ranks and a decent export programme can come about - similar (but less refined and developed) as Holden has done with Zeta.

[Big_Valven]

Let me remind people that I'm not saying Ford only make crap. I'd like to re-iterate that MY experiences with the limited numbers of fords I have driven have been generally negative ones. I know Ford make some killer cars, and that all brands are capable of producing good and bad cars. I'm not denying that Holden do the same. However, if I have good experiences with Holden and worse experiences with Ford, I'm likely to stick with Holden. Makes perfect sense to me.

[CarlFST60L]

Whats all this 'my dad' or 'my mate' followed by 'but my car is fine' :doh:

im out, this thread is ghey

[Ghia351]

I agree. While the G6E looks great in some aspects, the side profile and much of the rest of the models dont differentiate themselves enough to say "Look at me I'm new" to the average buyer.

You only have to read all the very dissapointed comments from supposed avid fans on Ford Forums to get an idea of what is happening IMOI had similar thoughts as well HSVMAN, until I saw a G6ET in the flesh and you don't have to be a Ford fan to notice it's new, it isn't a revolutionary change the way AU was over EL and thank god for that, then again the VE from head on at slight distance could be a VZ/BA until you can see the more angular/blocky lines, make out the detail and large Holden badge, while the rear, 3qrtr roof detail and lines on VE are very Commodore of past. IMHO FG looks very modern and until the majority see it on the road rather then press shots (and the official Ford ones are crap I think) we should comment from a position of actual real observations. By the way, memo to Ford Marketing, (I think they still have this department!) why can't Ford press shots be taken at the same eye level as a person standing near the car or from above, all those low level mid-car-height or upward focussed shots do it NO favours as evidenced once you see the thing pass you by on the road.

[HSVMAN]

I had similar thoughts as well HSVMAN, until I saw a G6ET in the flesh and you don't have to be a Ford fan to notice it's new, it isn't a revolutionary change the way AU was over EL and thank god for that, then again the VE from head on at slight distance could be a VZ/BA until you can see the more angular/blocky lines, make out the detail and large Holden badge, while the rear, 3qrtr roof detail and lines on VE are very Commodore of past. IMHO FG looks very modern and until the majority see it on the road rather then press shots (and the official Ford ones are crap I think) we should comment from a position of actual real observations. By the way, memo to Ford Marketing, (I think they still have this department!) why can't Ford press shots be taken at the same eye level as a person standing near the car or from above, all those low level mid-car-height or upward focussed shots do it NO favours as evidenced once you see the thing pass you by on the road.

Fair enough although when I compared actual pics of BF and FG in base form, I had to look not twice but several times to realise the differences.

As somebody said in another thread, there is not enough visual impact to determin it is a new model and I will stand by my prediction.
That is, most potential buyers will not know it is new either unless it is pointed out to them

The only model to really stand out from the front is G6E (in pics) but yes lets judge them in the flesh.

[Ghia351]

Fair enough although when I compared actual pics of BF and FG in base form, I had to look not twice but several times to realise the differences.

As somebody said in another thread, there is not enough visual impact to determin it is a new model and I will stand by my prediction.
That is, most potential buyers will not know it is new either unless it is pointed out to them

The only model to really stand out from the front is G6E (in pics) but yes lets judge them in the flesh.I guess it's a case of how far do you go linking models visually...always a problem releasing an update, say BF when the next all-new design has been signed off and still 2 years away.

[sh|tbmxrider]

I think ford has pulled the wool over over there fans eyes with this fg model ,and I hope you guys like it cause your going to be stuck with it for the next 5-7 years.

Eh?


brand-spanking-new platform due out in 2010...code name huntsman, with the duratec v6 and hurricane-boss v8

[BadMac]

I did sort of answer my own question didn't I.

It just appears to me that Ford have run out of ideas.
The FG is no "New Benchmark" that it needed to be, to ensure its demand fin the Australian market place.

Wait till you drive one (no I haven't), I suspect that the suspension and I6T performance may redefine a few peoples ideas (even if looks and build quailty don't).

[hoon69]

i think people will need to see one in the flesh to make up their mind,and even then unless you drive one you'll never look at what i really has to offer,as all your views are based on exterior/interior looks etc.

i personally dont like the base model but G6ET etc def gets my vote.
once people begins to purchase them and drop em down and place bigger rims etc ppl's minds will change for sure.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2725/2002896552519220863fsxm5.jpg
http://www.cgiautomotive.com/2008/2008-ford-falcon-gxr/
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8854/falcongxril8.jpghttp://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6990/2004575454919519133rsgg5.jpg

[nang3]

im loving all these comments thrown about without anyone actually having driven or seen a new falcon on the road mwahaha..
pics never do cars justice really, I always thought the VE was a POS til i saw a clubby in real life, looked way better than i thought..

but anyway the turbo 6 should be a ball tearer - since its basically same motor as the current phoon with some changes to intake and plumbing to reduce lag, and the current phoon has no problems keeping up with a VE GTS, im thinking/hoping the new phoon will be very very impressive... although then my resale will drop another 10k haha

[falcom]

Going on the pictures from a styling point of view some people will prefer VE & others will prefer Falcon.

But I have to say other than the XT the Ford interior is much better than the Commodore.As it is unusual for Holden to alter interiors after one model it looks like Ford will have the edge here for a few years at least.

[naddis01]

Still on the AU-BF platform.


hey guys

just want to make sure this is a completly new car isn't it, like the ve, its not a face lift is it?

cheers


I just can't see where this car is going to be in say another 3 or 4 years still being based on the au platform.Going to be a huge expense down the track for ford to change it's entire range to accomodate it's next so called big thing.I think people will probably buy cetain models but overall big let down for anyone expecting drastic changes.Geez I love my holden more than ever.

Check out the link.
drive.com.au/Editorial/MiniSite/MiniSiteArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=48928&vf=28&MiniSiteID=8

[SCiFiRE]

linky no worky

EDIT: turned out its just the space in "M inisiteID=8" that screws it up, get rid of that and it works

[naddis01]

Oops sorry

[mac06]

Here's the link to save time.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/MiniSite/MiniSiteArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=48928&vf=28&MiniSiteID=8

[Road Warrior]

This consists mainly of front and rear floorpan sections that have been recycled without a need for additional investment.

I told yas didn't I ;)

[VH-COM]

The FG Falcon's heating, ventilation and air-conditioning system (HVAC) is another carry-over. (from the article)

With exports in mind Holden designed VE's all new HVAC to handle North Hemisphere winters and 50 deg heat of middle East deserts. (Wheels Mag 2006 ) Another point to VE .:rofl:

[FunkyPig]

The fact that Commodore is an all-new platform and Falcon is not is largely irrelevant. It effects the way you think about the product, and makes you biasd. If the 'old and dated' does everything as good or better than VE why should Ford be punished for not investing the bigger bucks?

The more I look at the FG the more I like it. I think the side window shape is more different to BA than people notice right away, and on the road will show the FG as being more different than it appears in the pictures.

The VE has grown on me a lot since I first layed eyes on it and thought it was too concervative.

[demondan]

The FG Falcon's heating, ventilation and air-conditioning system (HVAC) is another carry-over. (from the article)

With exports in mind Holden designed VE's all new HVAC to handle North Hemisphere winters and 50 deg heat of middle East deserts. (Wheels Mag 2006 ) Another point to VE .:rofl:

The Ve handbrake design has gotta worth a couple more points, world class design right there. I still can't believe Ford didn't copy it.

[VH-COM]

The FG's new doors are IMO the best improvement they have made.
I disliked the AU-BF doors. When open they have sooo much metal showing around the perimeter. Reminds me of a hatch on a ships bulkhead . Can't wait to see one on the road . VE Sportwagon will most likely be my next ride though.

[Ghia351]

The FG Falcon's heating, ventilation and air-conditioning system (HVAC) is another carry-over. (from the article)

With exports in mind Holden designed VE's all new HVAC to handle North Hemisphere winters and 50 deg heat of middle East deserts. (Wheels Mag 2006 ) Another point to VE .:rofl:..actually the bigger test in the middle east is engine cooling, they often run keep their engines running with aircon on while they pop in to do the shopping in the 50+ cash register equipped supermarket....ah when petrol is cheap the things you do....

[payaya]

I dont know how you can base a few facts, design budgets and think what a car is going to be like.

The BF is already a really good handling car. The Orion is going to carry on a small amount of this but improve the already impressive control blade and put the front suspension in the Territory in the Orion. Anyone who has kept up with the reviews know the Territory runs a unique front end, which bascially make the competitors look like crap! You see the BMW system in the X5 now? Stright copy of the Territory.

90% all new is in my opinion all new.

So why not wait for the reviews to start? I know its a Holden forum and we all are biased but competition is a good thing.


I told yas didn't I ;)

VE kept all their transmissions even when the BF already had much better transmissions. Now the Orion is upgrading again, putting more of a gap between rivals.

[CarlFST60L]

You see the BMW system in the X5 now? Stright copy of the Territory.

I have no idea, but that just doesn't sound right to me. BMW copy Ford, I dont believe it, but stranger things have happened.

[EddieVE06]

The FG Falcon's heating, ventilation and air-conditioning system (HVAC) is another carry-over. (from the article)

With exports in mind Holden designed VE's all new HVAC to handle North Hemisphere winters and 50 deg heat of middle East deserts. (Wheels Mag 2006 ) Another point to VE .:rofl:

Soory but as an owner of a VE I really have to say I'm not at all impressed with the air con in the VE. Apart from the fact that on sunday when it was 34 degrees here it shut off on me 11 times after being reflashed twice and next week getting a new control unit, it doesn't even seem like cold air comes out of the thing. Whether the middle east has a stronger unit i dont know but the way mine works at the moment if i was in the middle east in 50 degree weather i'd be driving around naked.

[McobraR]

wasn't there a thread before about a VE owner stating that the falcon's air-con is heaps stronger/colder than the VE anyway? and other VE owners who had experienced a falcon also agreed.

[HSVMAN]

....You see the BMW system in the X5 now? Stright copy of the Territory.

90% all new is in my opinion all new.

VE kept all their transmissions even when the BF already had much better transmissions. Now the Orion is upgrading again, putting more of a gap between rivals.

Ford based the Terri suspension on Euro designs - not the other way round - as stated by Ford themselves.

It less than 90% new but who cares? It still looks the same so far and thats what buyers will see.

"much better" transmissions in who's eyes? Buyers once again dont care and whilst there are advantages with Ford's choice of trans, the difference is not big in terms of what the majority see and want :)

[sandmanls1]

I must have been lucky recently had a rental VE Exec in Darwin, where it is both bloody hot and humid, and the air con was ice cold, had to turn it down..Although you could argue with lots of cloud cover the car doesn;t heat up as much as direct sun. Had a BF Falcon in Townsville and the air con struggled, mind you the VE was pretty new compared to the Falcon, maybe it needed a re gas...

[Carby]

The Ve handbrake design has gotta worth a couple more points, world class design right there. I still can't believe Ford didn't copy it.


I know you said this in jest - but I reckon it is one of the most clever things in the VE. When you travel in the car it doesn't even look like you have a handbrake - the synergy with the other side of the console looks great. I actually now think that the regular hand brakes look really stupid and dated -almost phallic when engaged and when there not, they look out of place with the rest of the console.:)

[rs2000]

I must have been lucky recently had a rental VE Exec in Darwin, where it is both bloody hot and humid, and the air con was ice cold, had to turn it down..Although you could argue with lots of cloud cover the car doesn;t heat up as much as direct sun. Had a BF Falcon in Townsville and the air con struggled, mind you the VE was pretty new compared to the Falcon, maybe it needed a re gas...
Each to there own...just jumped out of a hire ford territory that i had for 2 weeks, didn't miss a beat, absolutely no probs with air cond..

[gmeup]

current phoon has no problems keeping up with a VE GTS, im thinking/hoping the new phoon will be very very impressive... although then my resale will drop another 10k haha


Keeping up maybe if you are lucky, beating though is another story

[CarlFST60L]

I must have been lucky recently had a rental VE Exec in Darwin, where it is both bloody hot and humid, and the air con was ice cold, had to turn it down..Although you could argue with lots of cloud cover the car doesn;t heat up as much as direct sun. Had a BF Falcon in Townsville and the air con struggled, mind you the VE was pretty new compared to the Falcon, maybe it needed a re gas...

I have no problems with my Air con either. I have dual zone climate, and i always have to turn it down, if you leave it on C for two long it hurts. I did have some issues where it just didn't work, but the dash software update fixed that.

[Ghia351]

Ford based the Terri suspension on Euro designs - not the other way round - as stated by Ford themselves.

It less than 90% new but who cares? It still looks the same so far and thats what buyers will see.

"much better" transmissions in who's eyes? Buyers once again dont care and whilst there are advantages with Ford's choice of trans, the difference is not big in terms of what the majority see and want :)Err..not quite right this time HSVMAN, the first X5 had a different front end design to the current X5...the first gen X5 was used by Ford to benchmark car-like handling in a tall body SUV and they came up with their own unique design, now employed in a modified and more aluminium based version in the GF...while the new X5 now has a design that mimmicks's the Terry's...

[CarlFST60L]

Err..not quite right this time HSVMAN, the first X5 had a different front end design to the current X5...the first gen X5 was used by Ford to benchmark car-like handling in a tall body SUV and they came up with their own unique design, now employed in a modified and more aluminium based version in the GF...while the new X5 now has a design that mimmicks's the Terry's...

I would still very much doubt that BMW are taking lessons from Ford in handling. It may well be similar by chance, but i wouldn't think BMW would copy ford.

[Ghia351]

I would still very much doubt that BMW are taking lessons from Ford in handling. It may well be similar by chance, but i wouldn't think BMW would copy ford.why is it so hard to accept that if two engineeing groups try to solve the same problem they can come up with a similar solution, in this case Ford Oz came up with it first, let's give some credit to aussie engineeing ability for once.

[lowriding]

You see the BMW system in the X5 now? Stright copy of the Territory.


The current X5 suspension is indeed similar to the Territory , but to say BMW copied the design is at best laughable . The design that Ford aus are cutely marketing as "virtualpivot" (split lower suspension arms ,2 balljoints) has been used by MB,Audi and other euro cars for years . The 2 piece bottom which Ford Aus copied for the Territory has been there all along on the X5,the only change since to X5 was to an upper wishbone from a strut system .

[EfiJy]

I dont know how you can base a few facts, design budgets and think what a car is going to be like.

The BF is already a really good handling car. The Orion is going to carry on a small amount of this but improve the already impressive control blade and put the front suspension in the Territory in the Orion. Anyone who has kept up with the reviews know the Territory runs a unique front end, which bascially make the competitors look like crap! You see the BMW system in the X5 now? Stright copy of the Territory.

90% all new is in my opinion all new.

So why not wait for the reviews to start? I know its a Holden forum and we all are biased but competition is a good thing.



VE kept all their transmissions even when the BF already had much better transmissions. Now the Orion is upgrading again, putting more of a gap between rivals.

y do u always start pissing contexts?

[Ghia351]

,the only change since to X5 was to an upper wishbone from a strut system .
..which is not a minor change and brought it in line with the Ford system....:doh: maybe we'd better get back to the FG.

[lowriding]

..which is not a minor change and brought it in line with the Ford system....:doh: maybe we'd better get back to the FG.

..but cmon Ghia your not going to claim ford aust engineering invented the upper A arm now surely !;) the point is the "unique" feature and area of the suspension ,and the new introduction in this model falcon , was always in the X5 . Ford have done some good engineering and are capable of much but to suggest BMW copied Ford Australia-as i beleive Wheels did- is fairly ludicrous on several levels . I do agree with getting back to the discussion ,but hey you guys brought it up :)

regards

[EfiJy]

persoanally i reckon the fg looks hot. wait 4 the fpvs theyll srprise every1 with how quick theyll be. :flipoff:wot i cant handle is the media sayin fg is a makeover. wtf? ford spent 800mil on a makeoover. go fig.

[macca_779]

I have no problems with my Air con either. I have dual zone climate, and i always have to turn it down, if you leave it on C for two long it hurts. I did have some issues where it just didn't work, but the dash software update fixed that.

Like living in Penrith is a guide to how good an A/C system is..What do you need it for.. Defogging your windscreen in winter.. Come up here where you really need it and see how it goes. Ford's A/C has been exceptional for years. The VE system is fine too up here except for CC models which take their sweet arse time to go flat out and enter Recirc mode. I even find in my car cause its slack too, that if I hit recirc then auto it gets the hint and stays there till the cabin is down to temp.. The Falcon systems are much more intuitive and far superior.

[Ghia351]

..but cmon Ghia your not going to claim ford aust engineering invented the upper A arm now surely !;) the point is the "unique" feature and area of the suspension ,and the new introduction in this model falcon , was always in the X5 . Ford have done some good engineering and are capable of much but to suggest BMW copied Ford Australia-as i beleive Wheels did- is fairly ludicrous on several levels . I do agree with getting back to the discussion ,but hey you guys brought it up :)

regardsI never said Ford invented the A-arm, just that X5's latest iteration looks so similar to Ford's and Ford came up with this version first, (again not the principal of A-arms) but rather the actual design as it is now. You're right it was Wheels which said (paraphrasing) save for material used it could be one and the same...and getting back to FG...the FG version is improved on Terry and goes one better in that it now uses more lightweight material which is now closer to the X5 in regards to aluminium use. I still don't understand why some of you think that an Aussie design, regardless of whether its Holden or Ford couldn't possibly appear in an expensive Euro and that maybe they could learn a thing or two from the engineers here.....especially like how to do a new floorpan like VE for a relative bargain compared to other manufacturers.

must add I'm enjoying the talk...
cheers.


persoanally i reckon the fg looks hot. wait 4 the fpvs theyll srprise every1 with how quick theyll be. :flipoff:wot i cant handle is the media sayin fg is a makeover. wtf? ford spent 800mil on a makeoover. go fig.Unfortunately the general media don't include new stamping press, R & D start-up such as the all-new test labs at Geelong and You Yangs...and Ford don't break it down to a level of actual car $X00 Million, plant & equipment $Y00 million.

[CarlFST60L]

Like living in Penrith is a guide to how good an A/C system is..What do you need it for.. Defogging your windscreen in winter.. Come up here where you really need it and see how it goes. Ford's A/C has been exceptional for years. The VE system is fine too up here except for CC models which take their sweet arse time to go flat out and enter Recirc mode. I even find in my car cause its slack too, that if I hit recirc then auto it gets the hint and stays there till the cabin is down to temp.. The Falcon systems are much more intuitive and far superior.

Richmond is actually one of the hottest places in NSW if you watch the weather reports. Although its the coldest Feb on record for 50 years, so nows not a good time to look :lol:

I have heard a few people complain about the aircon, but my dual zone climate control works just perfectly from 2C up to +55C. A good example would be the +55C day at Eastern creek last year, I had full pants, long sleeve and helmet, ran 13.6, and was nice and cool, admittedly it struggled after a couple of runs with some crazy engine bay temps, but 56C is seriously HOT :lol:

"Far superior"? Are you sure you car's Dual zone air isn't faulty? Are you biased? Far superior seems a little far, Fords might turn on quicker, react quicker, blow harder, but its just cold air, there isnt much to it? Have you experienced a working dual zone climate control that actually works? (Not being smart, just working out why yours dosnt work properly)

[Danv8]

Richmond is actually one of the hottest places in NSW if you watch the weather reports. Although its the coldest Feb on record for 50 years, so nows not a good time to look :lol:

I have heard a few people complain about the aircon, but my dual zone climate control works just perfectly from 2C up to +55C. A good example would be the +55C day at Eastern creek last year, I had full pants, long sleeve and helmet, ran 13.6, and was nice and cool, admittedly it struggled after a couple of runs with some crazy engine bay temps, but 56C is seriously HOT :lol:

"Far superior"? Are you sure you car's Dual zone air isn't faulty? Are you biased? Far superior seems a little far, Fords might turn on quicker, react quicker, blow harder, but its just cold air, there isnt much to it? Have you experienced a working dual zone climate control that actually works? (Not being smart, just working out why yours dosnt work properly)

Our Territories A/C system is OK but nothing spectacular. Even my Calais A/C system is ok but the a/c in my rodeo is pretty damn good actually. Although the A/C has to work less since its a single cab chassis unit. :)

[HSVMAN]

Err..not quite right this time HSVMAN, the first X5 had a different front end design to the current X5...the first gen X5 was used by Ford to benchmark car-like handling in a tall body SUV and they came up with their own unique design, now employed in a modified and more aluminium based version in the GF...while the new X5 now has a design that mimmicks's the Terry's...

Not to drag this out any further but it looks like you've been corrected enough and yes I am right :) Ask Ford themselves. They didnt invent anything that wasnt already being used. I have heard several Ford fans say the same thing (BMW copied the Territory) and yes its quite laughable.
Furthermore a Terri doesnt handle/drive anything like an X5.

i am sure the new front suspension that Ford have fitted to the FG will be very good though

[Evman]

And thank god they have outsold the Falcon for that long because you would hate to see just how much debt Holden would be in if that wasn't the case, how many millions was it last financial year and the one before that...

Uuuuh, yeah, and if I didn't blink when I blinked 7 years ago the the world might have ended by now... If Holden hadn't been outselling Ford they might have gone a very different path for all we know... What a ridiculous way to look at it!


I know you said this in jest - but I reckon it is one of the most clever things in the VE. When you travel in the car it doesn't even look like you have a handbrake...:)

I agree completelly. I've never even given the feel of it a second thought when using the handbrake in the VE's...


I'm looking forward to the Falcon release more-so to see what Holden/HSV do to counter it (yes I'm a die-hard Holden fan, no I will never buy a Ford anyway. I know I'm not the only one like that either :))

[thermos]

All this talk of Fords.... reminds me of..

"Have you.. Have You.. Have you.. Driven a Ford laaateeeeely?"

[BadMac]

Heres a bit of a shock

Originally Posted by GoAuto
"There is no factory sunroof as Ford claims it did not want to compromise structural integrity"

http://69.94.139.100/mags/2008.02.22_TheMAG.pdf

[BE57IA]

[QUOTE=BadMac;1158806]Heres a bit of a shock

Originally Posted by GoAuto
"There is no factory sunroof as Ford claims it did not want to compromise structural integrity"

erm, it's a ford and erm, it was written by a motoring journo...

File that puppy!

[clubbie]

So the Terry and the X5 have the same suspension setup.....BMW copied Ford's ball joint failing suspension? Don't think so and if they did they sure did it better.

I have never seen a X5 with the wheel folded into the wheel arch but I have seen a Terry with this problem.

Here we go...clicky
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=93180&highlight=Territory

Now back to the discussion at hand regarding the FG. It looks kind of generic in the base model ala the Commodore. The XR looks good...we will have to wait and see about the interior and how they drive.

Of more concern is Ford did not allow this product to be manufactured in LHD. To Ford lovers pray this aint so as Ford will go the same way as Mitsubishi with out export numbers and $$$'s. What I find quite stupid is that Ford OZ can build a car that takes on one of the most loved, best handling and value RWD cars in the world (VE) but does not allow that product (FG) to go overseas...weird.

Clubbie

[McobraR]

Of more concern is Ford did not allow this product to be manufactured in LHD. To Ford lovers pray this aint so as Ford will go the same way as Mitsubishi with out export numbers and $$$'s. What I find quite stupid is that Ford OZ can build a car that takes on one of the most loved, best handling and value RWD cars in the world (VE) but does not allow that product (FG) to go overseas...weird.

Clubbie

Actually i discussed this in AFF and its not such a bad thing that they aren't exporting the falc, mainly to america, due to our strong dollar. Meaning Holden exporting to america isn't making as much money when GM originally thought of the idea, say around a few years ago when our dollar was weaker. Ford Oz designing the platform is the best way, and when focus starts being built here where small car sales are booming worldwide, it should deliver high sales, high profit.

[Road Warrior]

Of more concern is Ford did not allow this product to be manufactured in LHD. To Ford lovers pray this aint so as Ford will go the same way as Mitsubishi with out export numbers and $$$'s. What I find quite stupid is that Ford OZ can build a car that takes on one of the most loved, best handling and value RWD cars in the world (VE) but does not allow that product (FG) to go overseas...weird.

Clubbie

I beleive Detroit blocked it.

[V-Car]

It would have only been a sensible business decision, considering the financial mess Ford (and GM) are in now.
Would be silly to spend alot of money to develop a LHD version of a vehicle at the end of its life span, when it could be better spent on the upcoming new global RWD platform being partly developed by Ford Oz for release in a few years as new Falcon, Crown Vic/Fairlane, and Mustang etc.

[Ghia351]

Of more concern is Ford did not allow this product to be manufactured in LHD. To Ford lovers pray this aint so as Ford will go the same way as Mitsubishi with out export numbers and $$$'s. What I find quite stupid is that Ford OZ can build a car that takes on one of the most loved, best handling and value RWD cars in the world (VE) but does not allow that product (FG) to go overseas...weird.

ClubbieI think the FG was designed for LHD but not engineered, that is no great development into actual build. Some elements came through, eg. dash is symetrical so LHD would be less troublesome. Switching to Ford US developed V6 means less R&D for here, like Holden and it will appear in many other cars so it will be available around the world making stockpiling of spares etc already available. If Ford Oz were allowed to export the Falcon it would then make sense once this engine is in place. And remember the ONLY reason Holden export anything is because GM US stopped building a similar RWD car, unfortunately Ford US still builds a crapmobile RWD and export it to the mid-east so there is no way Ford Oz would be allowed to compete with this until it's buried and the future RWD development is put in place. Also Ford Oz will have Terry and FG off similar platform and the Focus later with the chance of other models off this platform aswell making it easily the most diverse of the local big 3.