Does HSV understand its Market?

[nailit]

[quote=Vulture;1978032][quote=nailit;1977987]

I was thinking about this issue today while driving the Senator. It's a great car but I wonder how good it could be if it was lighter. 30-60kg is going to do very little for handling unless it is going to reduce unsprung weight via suspension components etc. The HSVs really need 100-200kg taken out of them at least! How that can be done in an affordable manner I do not know.

We have a E3 Senator also and yes it is and feels heavy . . . but it will never be 100kg lighter unfortunately - heck, I only have to take a passenger and there is another 90kg . . . so the answer is efficiency (torque) and the LSA as used as a production install in the Caddy CTSV would sort it

We sorted our Senator by fitting a Harrop Stealth that took it from 249RWKW to 402 RWKW . . . . which is more than it needs and thats with the stock HSV 2 1/4" Bimodals out the back . . . so GM have the answers and if a low volume mob like FPV can do it . . . at the right money in a "Cottage Industry" type of Build . . . well HSV can get them out of GM Powertrain for Tuppence and a bit!!! . . . and HSV is back on the money . . . its a start. . .

But I still think refferring back to my OP . . . HSV are being too bloody greedy and are trying to build too many cars and we the punter will ultimately suffer the consequence of that with poor values . . . the only thing that has retained any real value over the past couple of years is the 29th Anniv Maloo - Cos the numbers were small (100) . . . HSV need to stop being greedy to take the brand forward PLUS move the product back in front of the Market . . in ALL facets . . . Looks - Power - Trans - Value - Resale etc etc

[smokey777]

The VF is sure to have more KW claim and more weight.
Every year the cars get fatter and fatter.

but if its using the same floorpan, cabin & doors but will be using aluminium panels
as well why in the hell would it be heavier?? unless the new motor is cast iron instead
of alloy......

[QldKev]

I can see it now

A HSV and FPV line up at the lights, the Ford blows the doors of the HSV. The HSV driven finally catches up and yells out, well I've got a nicer dash and this Holden IQ system, check it out... sh!t the IQ is playing up again.

I agree there are way too many HSVs on the road. It used to be a treat to see one, now they are everywhere and are becoming just another car.

QldKev

[duke5700]

They are comfortable 5 door cars with a bit of extra poke and a nice interior... not sports cars.

They achieve this and are comfortably outselling FPV or whatever they are called now despite the drivetrain differences.

[BLACKVE]

Does anyone else think the look of E2 & 3 is not quite as good as it could be? They nailed it with the E1 but the E2 and 3 just doesn't look right to me with all the tacked on bits and busyness everywhere. I hear that said a fair bit also so im not on my own. Looks play a huge part in a car purchase for this amount of coin. Interested to hear comments.

YEP, current cars look horrible plus cost a arm and a leg..

[Aussie Pete]

My view is the substantial part of HSV's market is the business guy leasing it for 3 years, or a white collar guy novating it for 3-4 years. I'm sure HSV has this data in spades and knows what it looks like, but from my end the answer to the problem is what these cost every month to the punter. Virtually none of teh cars would be on operational leases (I would guess), leaving the resale risk to the punter. That leaves two choices. Pay it down quick, or in all likelihood go upside down. Once you combine all the monthly costs, and add the premiums for tyres, insurance, and other things beyond say an SSV, the HSV becomes a very expensive alternative. That's why I have an SSV, not what I wanted which was the R8 Tourer.

I also suspect that dealers and the trade in general know what the high pay-down residuals are and they only want to pay to the dollar what someone will take to get out net-zero. So, if you have taken the cheaper monthly payment, your time will come, because these guys will never give anyone a doller to walk away.

Let me ask, when has anyone on here who has leased a new HSV, last walked away with equity in the vehicle to pay for the next one?

The days of passion and looking after a car to pay your way into the new model seems gone for me. I have even found this on my SSV - I know I'm not upside down, but dealer offers are suspiciously close to the 'out number'.

[Martin_D]

There is no way my old man will buy an FPV . . .

He did buy a Datsun though.....
An FPV? Maybe thats asking a bit much

VF with some ally panels sounds like a good step in the right direction. Now if only there was a GTS-R....dead horse, start whipping
Bring back the HRT427

[duke5700]

Not a chance... bean counters are kill joys.. its hard when you can't accurately define people buying lower models because of the fascination with the hi-po cars of by-gone eras.

[nailit]

My view is the substantial part of HSV's market is the business guy leasing it for 3 years, or a white collar guy novating it for 3-4 years. I'm sure HSV has this data

Let me ask, when has anyone on here who has leased a new HSV, last walked away with equity in the vehicle to pay for the next one?

HSV would have all the Data they want. . . . but there return customers are missing in action. . . either sitting on their cars or moving onto another brand.

Many a punter will move from HSV to a BMW os Benz cos he can or cos $100k gets you a good Benz these days with plenty of equipment . . . should HSV be trying to HOLD these customers . . YES. . . HSV are also relying to new customers that are coming into the market. . . but the market is full of interesting alternatives and HSV needs have an edge . . . READ - EDGE . . . do they have this edge????

Getting out of a HSV or any Car after 2 or so years is tough. . . . especially if its a HSV which is flooded in the Market!!! . . . sadly. . . but if you want out of a lease early you need to customise your lease and get your head straight . . . RULE ONE . . . pay the on road costs and do not chuck them into the lease!!! . . . RULE TWO . . do not have a lease that uses the
"Rule of 78" . . . that will get you every time. . . . and most leases have this format!!!

[Carby]

There is no doubt that both the HSV and FPV are genuine sports sedans and value for money wise, are both excellent buying - but for how long?

As a lot have already mentioned the HSV's need to lose weight, this is what the highend vehicles are doing now, not only for performance but to be more fuel efficient.

Taking weight out of a car is seriously expensive and HSV's problem is Holden - the base car is a Holden donor and unfortunately Holden does not have the funds to compete on a R & D level with the other major players, and I include the Hyundai Group here, as their current crop of cars are well built and well equiped at a competitive prices.

The market is changing and I can only see HSV's market shrinking in the future.

[BEARWOOD]

One of the problems i see is that they are just another car on the road these days and dont really have any sort of exclusivness.

I think they just want to pump the numbers out and are not really interested in being something a bit special which years ago they were.

I think they need atleast one thats different and a bit more special than the rest just to let people know they are not a rebadged holden.

[zorro]

One of the problems i see is that they are just another car on the road these days and dont really have any sort of exclusivness.

I think they just want to pump the numbers out and are not really interested in being something a bit special which years ago they were.

I think they need atleast one thats different and a bit more special than the rest just to let people know they are not a rebadged holden.

Good point seeing as the only 'real' exclusive hsv made in the last 20yrs were the GTS-R & w427.....

[macca_779]

Good point seeing as the only 'real' exclusive hsv made in the last 20yrs were the GTS-R & w427.....

What about the VT2 GTS VX SENATOR 300. Both those models are more exclusive than the aforementioned.

[macca33]

But I still think refferring back to my OP . . . HSV are being too bloody greedy and are trying to build too many cars and we the punter will ultimately suffer the consequence of that with poor values . . . the only thing that has retained any real value over the past couple of years is the 29th Anniv Maloo - Cos the numbers were small (100) . . . HSV need to stop being greedy to take the brand forward PLUS move the product back in front of the Market . . in ALL facets . . . Looks - Power - Trans - Value - Resale etc etc

That just about says it there and to be frank with you, not much is going to change, until the 'lease' purchaser (company or otherwise) stops buying HSV cars in the numbers they do. It is that purchaser who buys for the looks, the name and the status, but who does not care (mostly) that it is a homogenised product nowadays, as they are not interested in the aspects that we desire - power, handling, exclusivity and do not bother modifying the car; just driving it up until the lease expiry, when they will then look at HSV, Audi, MB, BMW, etc, etc and pick the one they like best on that day.

Why would HSV innovate, when the majority of their customer base do not want them to - almost has me agreeing with davo on that score - which is a worry...

I know of one particular hardcore, multi-HSV purchaser (8 in 10 years) who has now left - for Toyota / Lexus of all things - and will NEVER go back to HSV.

Sadly, a low-volume 25th anniversary run, despite the fact that it will be good (by most reports), will not reinvigorate the brand for the true enthusiast.

cheers

[VYBerlinaV8]

I think it's important to remember what HSVs really are: tricked up, rebadged Holdens.

I don't drive a V8 any more, but still quite like the Commodore for what it is. Personally, I have never seen the value in HSV, when for a lot less $$ you can get the Commodore V8 which is almost as good anyway.

HSV will survive, because they are building cars that sell. No manufacturer is going to build cars purely out of emotion.