Does HSV understand its Market?

[steve_t]

I remember when a GTS was exclusive and you would count yourself lucky to see one on the road. Now you see them everywhere, I personally see more GTS's then I do clubsports these days.

Personally for me I wouldnt buy a HSV as a brand new vehicle, I would prefer to buy a SS and then spend my money on modifiying it for more power and better handling. I dont see the point in people buying a GTS or clubsport only to swap out the wheels, suspension, intake, exhaust for aftermarket gear and then fiddle with the engine for more power. Your throwing away all the gear that makes the HSV "better" then the SS and is the LS3 really worth the difference over the L98 once played with?

I think I'm stealing PlanetDavo's thunder here by saying that the vast majority of HSV buyers probably don't heavily modify their vehicles, if at all. These sorts of people may or may not spend much time around here

[CLUBRED]

I personally don't want to go faster or keep up with the FPV, I want better build quality, at least more noticable than the vehicle it's based on. I don't like things that look add-hok, and the current VE series looks that, the Pontiac bits was the last straw.

[boggers007]

I think I'm stealing PlanetDavo's thunder here by saying that the vast majority of HSV buyers probably don't heavily modify their vehicles, if at all. These sorts of people may or may not spend much time around here

There will always be people that will buy the HSV every generation because of the slight power increase that usually comes with it from the factory. Either they are unaware of afte rmarket tunes or rather not mess with the car.

[C4B]

I remember when a GTS was exclusive and you would count yourself lucky to see one on the road. Now you see them everywhere, I personally see more GTS's then I do clubsports these days.

That's because when the VE came out they downgraded the GTS to a Clubsport R8 Level. Bit of a shame really to devalue the badge just to make some sales.

No different to what Ford did with the GT nameplate.

[Toddler78]

That's because when the VE came out they downgraded the GTS to a Clubsport R8 Level. Bit of a shame really to devalue the badge just to make some sales.

No different to what Ford did with the GT nameplate.

100% correct, I would much prefer a VS or VT GTS over the VE varients as IMO they hold some form of prestige, I feel the product has been watered down

I think I'm stealing PlanetDavo's thunder here by saying that the vast majority of HSV buyers probably don't heavily modify their vehicles, if at all. These sorts of people may or may not spend much time around here

In hindsight you are probably right. But HSV, I beleive still rely on the return business from their core group of customers, but for people like the OP father and pickles for argument sake that have been return customers over the years because they are buying a 'special vehicle' are now being shunned because I think these things now are just a tarted up SS, which is a shame

Spoken like a hsv club member

Seriously never met a bunch like them, not even the BMW club is as uptight as these blokes.

Not having a dig at you though mate

no not me mate, Ive never met them, however I could understand that them having that mentaily being part of a 'special club ', however I wouldnt be quick to stick up my nose and make it a fact to say I own one. The product is nothing special anymore which is a shame.

Obviously HSV being a business are out to make as much money as possible, but it seems that they are happy to make little profit per unit and make their money on turnover (as the OP has eluded too) and as a result the cars dont really have anything special. Go back to the old days, produce a low volume high spec car and ask more for it?

[zorro]

100% correct, I would much prefer a VS or VT GTS over the VE varients as IMO they hold some form of prestige, I feel the product has been watered down



In hindsight you are probably right. But HSV, I beleive still rely on the return business from their core group of customers, but for people like the OP father and pickles for argument sake that have been return customers over the years because they are buying a 'special vehicle' are now being shunned because I think these things now are just a tarted up SS, which is a shame



no not me mate, Ive never met them, however I could understand that them having that mentaily being part of a 'special club ', however I wouldnt be quick to stick up my nose and make it a fact to say I own one. The product is nothing special anymore which is a shame.

Obviously HSV being a business are out to make as much money as possible, but it seems that they are happy to make little profit per unit and make their money on turnover (as the OP has eluded too) and as a result the cars dont really have anything special. Go back to the old days, produce a low volume high spec car and ask more for it?

Exactly right, bottom line and gp dictate what they do.

I recall the head of Porsche in mid late 90s stating the 911 was their focus, 2011 they now have a 5 model line up which I believe with the cayenne and panorama were taylor made for the US market.

I have maintained hsv have stuck their necks out most with the e series, most they have ever done to differentiate the models however where do they go from here now the roads are flooded with gts, r8s, maloos etc etc? But in saying that sales are up so if it ain't broke don't fix it

[Toddler78]

edit: for Zorro. I can understand your comment on the silver spoon mentality of the HSV club and the BMW club, my boss drives a 3 series and thinks hes part of some ellite prestige club, he fails to see that in europe these are as considered as prestige as what we would consider a berlina prestige here in aus

[Twin Turbo HSV]

Personally, I want a large locally built touring car so its Holden or Ford, keeps my fellow Australians in work otherwise taxes go up to match welfare payments.

Only ever had Holdens over the years, cant see the point in paying bigger dollars for a BMW 3 series (leave the M's out) which is a German taxi equivalent to an omega commodore over there.

Having come through the various models and body shapes utes, 1 tonners station wagons 4 door monaros and old 2 door monaros I aspired to own a HSV and have been lucky enough to have owned (not leased) three of them.

It is a large touring car that can cover large distances in comfort, lucnh at Mum's is a 900Km round journey done often in 1 day so it fits it onto a busy life running my own business.

Every time I walk towards the car I smile on the inside, I feel i am getting into a high performance vehicle that will repsond quickly to my foot and if i wish to accelerate quickly to go round a road train I can.

I know what it can do and it does it welll, I can cruise for hours and get out and feel fresh. If it breaks down in the middle of nowhere there is bound to be a part to keep me going and it is not going to cost an arm and a leg.

I dont mind how many I see as if they become exlusive they will be priced out of my buy point.

They may not hold value like the expensive imports but i know that when i buy one and factor that in to the decision.

What would i like to see different is forced induction from the factory with a warranty at a similar price point to a FPV.

Until that happens I will hang on the my VE Clubby and if it never happens then HSV haven't lost me as i will stay with what I have and finally buy that old HK or HQ monaro back and tinker in the garage at night, why i might even convince the missus that the timig is right for building that old school bobber motor bike

So HSV if you are reading this I dont want exclusivity or more expensive I want more bang for my buck with forced induction as many KW's as possible in a Holden HSV cause i love how the car makes me feel when i drive it and enjoy it.

[zorro]

The beemer club aren't too bad they are more accepting of modifications, hsv club are that anal down to fitting same tires as they come from factory.

[Toddler78]

Personally, I want a large locally built touring car so its Holden or Ford, keeps my fellow Australians in work otherwise taxes go up to match welfare payments.

Only ever had Holdens over the years, cant see the point in paying bigger dollars for a BMW 3 series (leave the M's out) which is a German taxi equivalent to an omega commodore over there.

Having come through the various models and body shapes utes, 1 tonners station wagons 4 door monaros and old 2 door monaros I aspired to own a HSV and have been lucky enough to have owned (not leased) three of them.

It is a large touring car that can cover large distances in comfort, lucnh at Mum's is a 900Km round journey done often in 1 day so it fits it onto a busy life running my own business.

Every time I walk towards the car I smile on the inside, I feel i am getting into a high performance vehicle that will repsond quickly to my foot and if i wish to accelerate quickly to go round a road train I can.

I know what it can do and it does it welll, I can cruise for hours and get out and feel fresh. If it breaks down in the middle of nowhere there is bound to be a part to keep me going and it is not going to cost an arm and a leg.

I dont mind how many I see as if they become exlusive they will be priced out of my buy point.

They may not hold value like the expensive imports but i know that when i buy one and factor that in to the decision.

What would i like to see different is forced induction from the factory with a warranty at a similar price point to a FPV.

Until that happens I will hang on the my VE Clubby and if it never happens then HSV haven't lost me as i will stay with what I have and finally buy that old HK or HQ monaro back and tinker in the garage at night, why i might even convince the missus that the timig is right for building that old school bobber motor bike

So HSV if you are reading this I dont want exclusivity or more expensive I want more bang for my buck with forced induction as many KW's as possible in a Holden HSV cause i love how the car makes me feel when i drive it and enjoy it.

maybe thats the great devide between HSV's customers you have yourself that want the badge but want bang for buck (which means mass producing the product) then you have your orginal old school customers like the OP that want the brand exclusivity it once was so they have something special

[nailit]

This thread has certainly made some interesting reading and shown some varying thoughts on what others rather than myself want!!!

And I guess there is a pattern emerging of different mindsets from various HSV owner demographics.

- The Company Exec that just wants a stocker HSV. . . he buys one cos he can . . . but does he buy again!!!

- The Car Tart that just wants to have a few nice cars around that make a statement - but are HSV's still making a Statement? . . that will keep him interested in the brand long term

- The Holden man that will always be a Holden Man that wants the best Holden Available

- The Holden Man that just wants his Holden to be a part of his thoughts and customises it to suit his taste!

- The Collector

. . . . and I am sure that these points can be added too on here!

But in the end . . . each of these Demograhics want a better car than their last . . . with unmatched performance and appeal in the Segment - AND RESALE VALUE that will enable he or she to upgrade whenever . . . to another "Supposedly Exclusive" Holden. . . .

I may be right or wrong but I started this thread because of my concern with HSV's resale values and values as a whole . . . and this is still my concern . . . the more HSV's that sit on Dealer floorplans and move slowly the less they are worth . . . and I think HSV need to "pull their heads in" and cut volumes to raise the value of the Brand . . . .

[planetdavo]

I always find these sort of threads amusing. A business case run by rampant forum emotion...
HSV management aren't suddenly dumb. They know you can't ever please everyone, and they are pretty confident they know what to do, and when, to keep sales ticking along.
One thought comes to mind that I feel many miss on here.
One shouldn't play all their cards at once...
As for the "cars on grass" scenario...there can be a number of reasons.
Lower sales volumes.
Buildup of stock for HSV's annual Xmas shutdown.
Expected sales mix not met, leading to more specific build orders rather than "off the shelf" sales.
Or, it's just the normal amount. but it hadn't been noticed before.
Finally, all these forum claims of HSV's range being "tired" and lacking change.
I'd dare suggest it's got far more to do with hardcore enthusiasts that often join forums having a ravenous appetite for change than any other reason. I mean, LS3 has only been in VE for about 3 years! We have a car than can run low 5's to 100km/h and has quite a lot of tech (particularly GTS and above), all in a package that can seat 5 in comfort, and do an interstate run if needed.
How much performance do most HSV buyers really want???

[matthewfnorbert]

market in my view is the cashed up bogan with relativily poor taste. a standard family hauler with gaudy add ons, BUT it has one hell of an engine and handling package for the $ and thats what many buy it for i suspect whilst looking past the boy racer plastic glue on bits and tinsel, eventually they 'like' the style and become committed (or is that addicted to the power) hsv fans.

line them up next to an amg, understated S series audi or s/c xf jag and its no competition. then again its all about personal taste and we are all different

[Martin_D]

HSV could try a better spring/damper combo in the rear.
Every VE I drive is extremely underdamped and tends to pogo around at the rear during normal driving. Drive slowly over a spoon drain and feel for yourself. Its quite unnerving...

[planetdavo]

market in my view is the cashed up bogan with relativily poor taste. a standard family hauler with gaudy add ons, BUT it has one hell of an engine and handling package for the $ and thats what many buy it for i suspect whilst looking past the boy racer plastic glue on bits and tinsel, eventually they 'like' the style and become committed (or is that addicted to the power) hsv fans.

line them up next to an amg, understated S series audi or s/c xf jag and its no competition. then again its all about personal taste and we are all different

All those Euro's are FAR more expensive. If Holden/HSV could play in a much higher price bracket I'm sure you'd see some different directions being taken.
A certain element on here certainly are power addicted, and really wont ever be satisfied. Going back to the Euro options, BMW's M3 has been smoked power wise for a while now by the C63 AMG, yet the M3 is considered a pretty tidy package in many other areas.
Sound familiar, when comparing LS3 HSV's to Coyote powered FPV's by any chance???