Does HSV understand its Market?

[planetdavo]

Why couldnt HSV be more hardcore, and offer us enthusiasts what we really want - they could put on their cars coilovers, ripshift, blower, etc

You are describing what the Walkinshaw Performance side of the same owner of HSV already does.
HSV cars have to be ADR's and GM engineering approved. WP's list of aftermarket mods like you describe don't.

[zorro]

Maybe, maybe not.
HSV have tried already with Astra VXR, and although the regular Holden Astra's sold well, the market for VXR was very, very limited. With SRI-V Cruze already cracking 30K, a pumped up HSV version with a unique engine will crack 40K for sure.
Is there genuinely a market? Talk is easy.

Exactly like you said the price was the killer, already imported plus Australia's ridiculous taxes made it too expensive for what it was.

30k for the top range cruise isn't too bad considering what sort of coin you pay for a Mazda sp25 for example, so a hsv version to compete in the hot hot hatch market would be a winner.

[andrewslr]

What amuses me about this discussion is that there is plenty of talk about what HSV should do. What many forget is that HSV is a business and lifestyle brand. A business case for a hardcore car that appeals to a poofteenth of the car buying public wont stack up, and on the off chance it does, is going to cost a bomb.....W427 anyone? How many forum members bought one?

Consider this, had HDT survived the 'Polariser' issue in the 80's do you think it would still be a small volume manufacturer....likely not. Volumes would be likely greater than limited builds in order to keep the doors open.

Niche players charge a premium for their product in general. If HSV was a true niche manufacturer, there would be a lot less of you buying them!

Then there is ADRs, emmissions, etc that all talk about...these add cost too

[planetdavo]

What amuses me about this discussion is that there is plenty of talk about what HSV should do. What many forget is that HSV is a business and lifestyle brand. A business case for a hardcore car that appeals to a poofteenth of the car buying public wont stack up, and on the off chance it does, is going to cost a bomb.....W427 anyone? How many forum members bought one?

Consider this, had HDT survived the 'Polariser' issue in the 80's do you think it would still be a small volume manufacturer....likely not. Volumes would be likely greater than limited builds in order to keep the doors open.

Niche players charge a premium for their product in general. If HSV was a true niche manufacturer, there would be a lot less of you buying them!

Then there is ADRs, emmissions, etc that all talk about...these add cost too

Rabid forum types don't always appreciate logic andrewslr...

[zorro]

So what's wrong with a dealer calling after 3 or 4 years, most HSV's would probably be under a lease 4 years or so. Why wouldn't they do some follow up around this time. Having a customers details from original sale is easy marketing to a pretty good prospective customer.

Have you done any sales type of work in your life??? Any business worth it's bottom line need return customers just as much as new. A lot can happen in 3-4yrs and by that time car could be sold or owner not interested anymore. We have had silly things like stickers replaced, hvac screen going rainbow colours, trim coming off steering wheel, premature clutch failure to name a couple and have had no contact until they want to sell us a new car. Inconveniences that hinder my decision on next purchase, now if say I had a follow up call to see if repairs were done to my liking, an offer of a loan car (told they would need 4hrs to replace one sticker), even a coffee while waiting I would as a customer be inclined to think that they want me as a customer.

Put it this way there are a lot of dealer principals out there that need a good look at there customer relations policies cos that's what keeps the business going, Holden/Ford have had their grip on the Australian market loosened considerably in the last 10 years, we have more choice and the consumer are doing just that, choosing elsewhere

[planetdavo]

Exactly like you said the price was the killer, already imported plus Australia's ridiculous taxes made it too expensive for what it was.

30k for the top range cruise isn't too bad considering what sort of coin you pay for a Mazda sp25 for example, so a hsv version to compete in the hot hot hatch market would be a winner.

How many people would pay over 40K for a "proper" HSV version of this car? A HSV Cruze is unlikely to be any cheaper than the HSV VXR Astra was, as you can guarantee it will be a loaded model to position it above Holden's range of "sporty" Cruze's.
That's my point. It may not have sufficient market to justify developing it, unless they have "cheap" access to a more performance orientated engine.
Anyway, none of us have the figures to know whether the sums add up or not.

[csv rulz]

Exactly like you said the price was the killer, already imported plus Australia's ridiculous taxes made it too expensive for what it was.

30k for the top range cruise isn't too bad considering what sort of coin you pay for a Mazda sp25 for example, so a hsv version to compete in the hot hot hatch market would be a winner.

Have to agree, most hot hatches sell for between $40-$50k
Imagine being able to get into a HSV sedan/hatch for around $40k, I certainly would be interested as I dont need something the size of a VE. I think the VXR didnt do all that well because it was purely a coupe so it limited its market considerably. It would be competing with things like WRX, GTI, XR5/ST
Also if the astra/gtc and cruze share similar underpinnings would it be possible for HSV to source engine components from OPC?

[planetdavo]

Have you done any sales type of work in your life??? Any business worth it's bottom line need return customers just as much as new. A lot can happen in 3-4yrs and by that time car could be sold or owner not interested anymore. We have had silly things like stickers replaced, hvac screen going rainbow colours, trim coming off steering wheel, premature clutch failure to name a couple and have had no contact until they want to sell us a new car. Inconveniences that hinder my decision on next purchase, now if say I had a follow up call to see if repairs were done to my liking, an offer of a loan car (told they would need 4hrs to replace one sticker), even a coffee while waiting I would as a customer be inclined to think that they want me as a customer.

Put it this way there are a lot of dealer principals out there that need a good look at there customer relations policies cos that's what keeps the business going, Holden/Ford have had their grip on the Australian market loosened considerably in the last 10 years, we have more choice and the consumer are doing just that, choosing elsewhere

If people like yourself start understanding that HSV VE's are based heavily on donor VE Commodore's, you might understand their strengths AND weaknesses more.
Many of the things you describe are issues with the core product, not what HSV modify, the areas that Holden warrant, not HSV.
Also, as I've said repeatedly in various threads, if people no longer want your "traditional" Aussie car, though either practical reasons, perceived fuel and other running costs, perceived poor quality/previous issues, badge snob reasons or whatever, you can't make them buy one just through offering a little more sugar in their cup of coffee...
Honestly, how many industries do you know that give a previous customer a ring every few months just to say hello and ask how's their day going???
Virtually none....unless you want something from them...

[planetdavo]

Also if the astra/gtc and cruze share similar underpinnings would it be possible for HSV to source engine components from OPC?

Many things are possible in the car industry world...if the numbers add up.

[csv rulz]

Many things are possible in the car industry world...if the numbers add up.

That's not what I asked! It's seems to me davo it's bean counters like yourself that kill any chance of cars that people can get enthusiastic about being built. Remembering cruze is a global product, so any performance variant produced by GM could spread the development costs.
I certanly won't be buying a Holden/hsv for my next car as the VE is purely way to big for my needs and they do not make any other half descent performance orientated cars, as sad as that is to say. And I am a mad Holden/hsv fan.

[zorro]

If people like yourself start understanding that HSV VE's are based heavily on donor VE Commodore's, you might understand their strengths AND weaknesses more.
Many of the things you describe are issues with the core product, not what HSV modify, the areas that Holden warrant, not HSV.
Also, as I've said repeatedly in various threads, if people no longer want your "traditional" Aussie car, though either practical reasons, perceived fuel and other running costs, perceived poor quality/previous issues, badge snob reasons or whatever, you can't make them buy one just through offering a little more sugar in their cup of coffee...
Honestly, how many industries do you know that give a previous customer a ring every few months just to say hello and ask how's their day going???
Virtually none....unless you want something from them...

Quite a few do, especially the ones wanting to keep their customers. At the hight of the civil boom in south east qld between 3 reps we were hitting budgets of 700-1 mil per month each. During that time you still go out tickling balls, dropping off hats/stubby coolers, cartons of beer etc.

Your perception of anything outside of your little office is blurred by your own ignorance.

I'm done with this. Laters

[PeterS]

Have you done any sales type of work in your life??? Any business worth it's bottom line need return customers just as much as new. A lot can happen in 3-4yrs and by that time car could be sold or owner not interested anymore. We have had silly things like stickers replaced, hvac screen going rainbow colours, trim coming off steering wheel, premature clutch failure to name a couple and have had no contact until they want to sell us a new car. Inconveniences that hinder my decision on next purchase, now if say I had a follow up call to see if repairs were done to my liking, an offer of a loan car (told they would need 4hrs to replace one sticker), even a coffee while waiting I would as a customer be inclined to think that they want me as a customer.

Put it this way there are a lot of dealer principals out there that need a good look at there customer relations policies cos that's what keeps the business going, Holden/Ford have had their grip on the Australian market loosened considerably in the last 10 years, we have more choice and the consumer are doing just that, choosing elsewhere

Perfectly agree. No more HSV's for me. If they want to charge me a premium price (as in a GTS), and Holden (as in a Caprice) then I expect better service. I went to all the trouble to fill out their satisfaction form, never heard back from them again. Obviously they didn't want to address my concerns, so I'm gone. My choice, no spilt milk, their loss.
Cheers.

[planetdavo]

Quite a few do, especially the ones wanting to keep their customers. At the hight of the civil boom in south east qld between 3 reps we were hitting budgets of 700-1 mil per month each. During that time you still go out tickling balls, dropping off hats/stubby coolers, cartons of beer etc.

Your perception of anything outside of your little office is blurred by your own ignorance.

I'm done with this. Laters

Hardly blurred. The car industry doesn't make enough to go out of your way regularly offering to swallow a previous customers load, just to give their low morale an ego boost...
However, when you are talking about a "boom", where sh!tloads of money is being made, and you can afford to have your oversized staff go to the toilet and wipe their @rses with $100 bills, you can afford to do this a bit more often...
Every business makes contact with SOME customers on a regular/semi regular basis, but there is ALWAYS an underlying reason for doing so. Happens all the time in TRADE customer situations, but rarely in retail environments. When it does happen in retail environments, it more likely a generated email with your name inserted, offering you a deal on something...sound familiar in this thread at all?

[planetdavo]

Perfectly agree. No more HSV's for me. If they want to charge me a premium price (as in a GTS), and Holden (as in a Caprice) then I expect better service. I went to all the trouble to fill out their satisfaction form, never heard back from them again. Obviously they didn't want to address my concerns, so I'm gone. My choice, no spilt milk, their loss.
Cheers.

Most people actually consider GTS and Caprice to be excellent value for what you get for your dollars. How many other brands can you get so much car with so much performance for your 80 odd thousand? Not many, unless you start sacrificing size, performance, standard features...
If your expectations differ then you have many other options out there. No one forces you to buy them.

[Pickles]

I have read several road tests over the last year or so, where the likes of
6L Calais V & Senator have been compared with BMW/Benz.....On each occasion the Aussie product has been shaded by the Euro product,.....BUT, NOT BY AN OVERWHELMING MARGIN, the comment being made, in every instance, that the Aussie product represented great value.
Cheers, Pickles.