Does HSV understand its Market?

[Smitty]

Correct again - Your on fire today Martin!!

The Old man just said (he's keeping an eye on this) . . . lets not forget that other Great South Aussie - Vin Keane - that funded and backed Brock into the whole thing back in late 79!!!
.... .

you have forgotten all the other dealers (mainly Victorian and from NSW) who agreed to take the car sight unseen
plus
the sales, vehicle production, engineering, design and finance people (inc me) at GMH who backed the idea !
(..remembering GMH had never done anything like it before with sorta complete cars essentially subbied out to be finished)

[Smitty]

Agreed.

IMHO, HSV currently build cars that appeal to "cafe latte" clients with what I view as chrome and glitz bits - the racing pedigree that evolved in HDT and earlier HSV has been 'dumbed down' over years.

Your proposal on an Omega type shell with real good "race capable" bits would be HSV's opportunity to re-enter the categories held currently by EVOs, Subaru, etc.


Mike

a VE version of the original VN Clubsport would be nice.....

[seedyrom]

Very true, although i suspect the ones grizzling the most are either still riding pushies around, or live at auction houses praying on bargains.. That said they do seem more tight with their $ at a time when performance products from FPV and HSV have never been more affordable.

A tuner I know doing Holden and Ford tuning said that about the after market side of things as well.
The ford customers are a pain in the arse as they are all tight with cash

[nailit]

you have forgotten all the other dealers (mainly Victorian and from NSW) who agreed to take the car sight unseen
plus
the sales, vehicle production, engineering, design and finance people (inc me) at GMH who backed the idea !
(..remembering GMH had never done anything like it before with sorta complete cars essentially subbied out to be finished)

Agreed . . . but it was Vin Keane that gave Brock the original Atlantis Blue VC to make the "Concept Prototype" happen . . . which apparantly forced the issue . . . sadly I wasn't around at the time so I rely on dads recollections of the scenareo!!!

Maybe Pickles can add more . . . this is off topic but interesting . . .this thread had finally been interesting today . . . for me that is!!!

[Wonky]

fanks,

its fitted with a detroit locka also,

and i have several HK monaro,s,and currently have the earliest PSN numbered GTS from pagewood,warrick yellow 307 glide,black trim,i havn,t finished resto yet,getting a bit lazy these days.

see if this link works,i,m not that cluey.

http://s807.photobucket.com/albums/y...cpZZ4QQtppZZ16
http://s807.photobucket.com/albums/y...tbath350/xu-1/

Wonky is praying for a Lotto win.

[4VMan]

A tuner I know doing Holden and Ford tuning said that about the after market side of things as well.
The ford customers are a pain in the arse as they are all tight with cash

Youre not the first person to say that, trust me. AFF has fostered a culture of blame, grizzle and sook first, apply logic last.. if at all. Its breeding a generation of tight arsed sooky complainers, ingreats and "experts"..... The REAL enthusiasts there are over it.

[redvxr8clubby]

A stripper VE weighing in at sub 1650kg with LS3 and a stick shift
Its something we have all been waiting years for....if only they would make such a thing
Notably most of the serious manufacturers make a motorsport version for clients. Subaru with Spec-C, Mitsubishi with EVO-RS, Porsche with GT3RS, Nissan with GTR Super Taikyu, even Chrysler with the ACR. Not Holden or HSV, which is why you never (rarely) see these cars at track days, which is also a shame and a genuine reason why these cars are losing their cred on the road

And while they are at it rebody one of the new GT3 Camaros with VE Panels and race it in the Australian GT Series.

Bear in mind HSV had the GXP Clubsport, no it wasn't a stripper in the sense of an Omega, but with its reduced spec, it wasn't very popular. I don't think a Clubsport similar to the VN would sell at all.

[Vulture]

Maybe some people are being a bit hard on HSV? They may have had a race heritage at one time but that has changed and they sell more cars than ever. True, it would be nice if they sold a true race-rep style variant but this is not what most of their buyers want. I have had a whinge about many aspects of HSV (poor resale, expensive glorified Commodore, variable customer service, too heavy, poor track longevity etc) but they are still doing ok and I love the Senator. Will I buy one next time after two new HSVs in the last couple of years? Not sure, especially as the next generation of WRX etc look very exciting and will be even better value for money than the HSVs.

[4VMan]

Maybe some people are being a bit hard on HSV? They may have had a race heritage at one time but that has changed and they sell more cars than ever. True, it would be nice if they sold a true race-rep style variant but this is not what most of their buyers want. I have had a whinge about many aspects of HSV (poor resale, expensive glorified Commodore, variable customer service, too heavy, poor track longevity etc) but they are still doing ok and I love the Senator. Will I buy one next time after two new HSVs in the last couple of years? Not sure, especially as the next generation of WRX etc look very exciting and will be even better value for money than the HSVs.

I think HSV have an extremely loyal following, but i also think they do a good job, the problem now is they've been snookered with a lack of economical crate engine options. Its a game of leapfrog, finally FPV have the (double) upper hand.

[HSE2]

A tuner I know doing Holden and Ford tuning said that about the after market side of things as well.
The ford customers are a pain in the arse as they are all tight with cash

Wouldn't happen to be a largish chap, one if the nicest guys you could wish to meet by any chance?

[Alex81]

Maybe some people are being a bit hard on HSV? They may have had a race heritage at one time but that has changed and they sell more cars than ever. True, it would be nice if they sold a true race-rep style variant but this is not what most of their buyers want. I have had a whinge about many aspects of HSV (poor resale, expensive glorified Commodore, variable customer service, too heavy, poor track longevity etc) but they are still doing ok and I love the Senator. Will I buy one next time after two new HSVs in the last couple of years? Not sure, especially as the next generation of WRX etc look very exciting and will be even better value for money than the HSVs.

Well i have just ordered my 5th new HSV after a 3yr gap from the last HSV i brought all because there a better cars on offer, in the 3yrs gap we brought a STI hatch for my wife which is her current ride until her new STI sedan turns ups in 8 weeks and a FG F6 for me both are good cars. The reason i have returned to HSV is i want to see what the current crop of cars are like, which will determine if i will stay and HSV price is getting stupid, we paid 60K for a new still on the ship STI sedan and the R8 was just under 80K with a decent discount as it will have all options. I hope it will be a good car cause if not i will not return.

[4VMan]

Well i have just ordered my 5th new HSV after a 3yr gap from the last HSV i brought all because there a better cars on offer, in the 3yrs gap we brought a STI hatch for my wife which is her current ride until her new STI sedan turns ups in 8 weeks and a FG F6 for me both are good cars. The reason i have returned to HSV is i want to see what the current crop of cars are like, which will determine if i will stay and HSV price is getting stupid, we paid 60K for a new still on the ship STI sedan and the R8 was just under 80K with a decent discount as it will have all options. I hope it will be a good car cause if not i will not return.

F6's are now 59K drive away, also did you try the S/C GT??? 75Kish....

[Martin_D]

The biggest problem with both HSV/FPV offerings IMO is they are simply too dear. You pay too much and get too little, and the higher you go in the model range, the worse it becomes. The problems start at the bottom too....just because a GS ute has an engine that cost the factory around $3K in total, doesnt mean you need to be paying over $50K for a leaf sprung ute riding in a body/chassis that was for all intents and pursposes designed in 1985

[Pickles]

Agreed . . . but it was Vin Keane that gave Brock the original Atlantis Blue VC to make the "Concept Prototype" happen . . . which apparantly forced the issue . . . sadly I wasn't around at the time so I rely on dads recollections of the scenareo!!!

Maybe Pickles can add more . . . this is off topic but interesting . . .this thread had finally been interesting today . . . for me that is!!!

Yes, there were plenty of people around in those days who believed in Peter, but the efforts of Vin Keane should never be forgotten.....many well known GM Dealers were HUGELY enthusiastic...people like Reg Hunt, & Warren Smith, in Victoria...and of course, there were many many others.
Graeme, it's a long time ago, but I think you'll find that the Atlantis Blue car to which you refer, was a VB, not a VC....I think it was a VB "SL"!!
The importance of the Holden & the Dealer Network was vital in ensuring success. Without them, P.B. could not have succeeded. I remember Alan Mance, Principal of a large Dealer network in Vic, talking to me at the time of Peter's "Divorce" from Holden..he was talking about the race team, & of course, the "Holden Dealer Team" and he said, "Take away Holden, & take away the "Dealers", & you're left with just a ..."Team"....which was pretty much the way it was in 1987.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Martin_D]

I think these years when Brock didnt have millions of dollars backing and an entire factory behind him were the years you could actually put his driving into isolation against the rest of the field and make genuine comparisons.

If Brock hadnt 'flipped his wig' and nutted out there is no doubt the 'Hot Holden' market would be a very different one today - and yes I have read 'The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock" as well as spent several hours personally interviewing him over the years, the last time for Unique Cars at the Bay to Birdwood Classic where he came down the drive an old Torana in the event around five years ago. He was an extremely engaging and charming man to talk to, but had a general unease with the whole process of conventional lifestyle.