End of Holden?

[Zombee]

Not sure if this has been posted?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-1...herill/3765126

Cheers
Zombee

[Mick1]

If govenments are prepared to put money into the "second rate" Ford product(as of today), they'll come good with $$$ for Holden.

[Jag530G]

All part of the gamesmanship. Ford have just scabbed some money of the Federal and Victorian Governments to keep the Falcon going till late 2016 (including an upgrade in 2014) so GM will be doing the "gee we are thinking about shutting Holden" and the politicians such as Weatherill shit themselves and start shovelling over the cash to keep Holden in business. Now that Ford has got a handout Holden will get one for the 2018 Commodore, so bad news for taxpayers but good news for us Holden fans.

Cheers, Matthew

[Dave85]

I read somewhere earlier today that Holden have been receiving handouts (albeit much smaller) for the last few years.

This isn't the article I was reading, but you get the point: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-1...ction=business

Despite whether either Ford or GM are genuine about shutting down plants because of bad business, the state and federal governments will prop them up because they don't want to be seen as presiding over the loss of potentially thousands of jobs.

[Martin_D]

This happens every few years
The pollies get together with GM and do a deal with taxpayers money, and in return get kickbacks from the scheme
The news stations make it sound like the end of the world and everyone is out of work. The Toyota and Mazda buying public get on the box and state "I dont mind paying a little more every week to save Holden". Bullseye.

Everyones pockets get lined, apart from the taxpayers - we just get to suck it up as per usual

Thread mine this in another three years

[Carby]

Oh Boo Hoo!

We are only 1 of 13 nations that can design and manufacture cars on this planet. What country doesn't support it's car industry?

I'm sick of people whingeing about poor taxpayers - at least we get taxes, secondary manufacturing, advancement of skills from Ford Holden and Toyota's manufacturing.

What do we get from our out of control refugee problem, carbon tax and dole bludgers? These bug me far more than throwing a bit of money at an industry which always has to be at the forefront of new technology.

[Martin_D]

I'm sick of people whingeing about poor taxpayers - at least we get taxes, secondary manufacturing, advancement of skills from Ford Holden and Toyota's manufacturing.

Supporting industry IS fantastic if one day the industry is able to be in a position to support itself.
Nothing wrong with Holden or the product, just Australia is not a very good place to manufacture anything these days with out of control Industrial Relations and tax after tax pricing the product out of the international game. Supporting industry IS fantastic if one day the industry is able to be in a position to support itself. The way Australian manufacturing is heading, this is questionable without major reform. Certainly Holden and Ford have been living of government handouts since day dot.

Tax for the sake of tax is not fantastic. At least not to me.
Nothing will change, we will just pay more tax, and there will be more smiley news reports backed by the government to make us feel good about it.

[Mick1]

.What do we get from our out of control refugee problem, carbon tax and dole bludgers? .

Calm down Pauline!

[Ghia351]

Oh Boo Hoo!

We are only 1 of 13 nations that can design and manufacture cars on this planet. What country doesn't support it's car industry?

I'm sick of people whingeing about poor taxpayers - at least we get taxes, secondary manufacturing, advancement of skills from Ford Holden and Toyota's manufacturing.

What do we get from our out of control refugee problem, carbon tax and dole bludgers? These bug me far more than throwing a bit of money at an industry which always has to be at the forefront of new technology.

So true, I mean how much income tax do the employees of Ford, Holden and Toyota pay back to the government, how much GST is paid by these companies, payroll tax, upskilling it's workforce, even something as absurdly basic as the number of take-away meals sold over the road to the plant (well in Campbellfield anyway)....I don't hear anyone complaining about the "finaicial penalties" the Thai government imposed on imported vehicles killing say Ford Territory exports overnight and yet how many tens of thousands of cars and utes (Hiluxes, Rangers, BT, Hondas) etc..come back here under the FTA. Every car manufacturer gets some form of assistance, be it planning permit approvals all the way to tax breaks and some form of monetary subsidy. Bear in mind the locals have to spend money to receive anything, it's not a dole handout. In the same street as my work is a supplier to Toyota. That's 40 workers and familes, maybe 120 people directly working or related to this businesses employees. The money they earn and spend comes from supplying Toyota which is repeated with hundreds, maybe thousands of inter-dealing businesses in the automotive supply chain for Toyota, Ford and Holden.

In the 1970's my parents actually bought one of the first Philips colour TV's, a two speaker, mono output, walnut cabinet unit built right here in Clayton, Victoria, 10 minutes from our house....It lasted 16 years, used by 4 children, day and night, and literally just wore itself out....how many people would even know that tv's were actually built here at one stage. I know personally the ability of some Ford employees as would some here for Holden and maybe Toyota. They work their backsides off trying to achieve the best they can an shoe string budgets often accomplishing results that astound their parent company collegues once they see how much they spent in their programs. Once these skills are nolonger needed here they're lost forever. And that saddens me because I work in manufacturing.

[Ghia351]

oops deleted double post.

[Jamolad]

Late last year Holden's Managing Director delivered what I thought quite a good speech re government funding and support for local manufacturing...it is quite long so won't post it here, but the full transcript can be found part way down this article.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011...ess-club-27977

Surprisingly frank, given at times he heaps praise on local Ford product. Worth the read if you have the time and have not yet read it.

[VL Executive]

I just did not like the sound of these points in one article I read

However, it seems increasingly unlikely that one of those models will include another rear-drive, Australian-developed Commodore large car after the life of the next model, the VF, that hits the showrooms in 2014.

Federal manufacturing minister Kim Carr, who went face to face with GM bosses including GM chairman and CEO Dan Akerson in a backroom meeting at the Detroit motor show today, raised the spectre of the demise of the home-grown breed when he later described the current Commodore as an orphan in GM’s model line-up and said that global platforms were a reality for the car industry.

“This is not the 1950s any more,” said Mr Carr. “The fact remains that global platforms are a reality.”

The VF Commodore is safe, and will retain the rear-drive format when it arrives in about 2014.

But it is increasingly likely that GM is planning to bin that Australian format in favour of one of its global front-drive architectures when the VF’s life is up around 2018-20.

However, his remarks about wanting to manufacture vehicles in mass-selling market segments – which in Australian terms most likely means the small-car, light-car and compact SUV classes – would indicate a new Commodore is unlikely.

[Tre-Cool]

boo ****ing hoo to gm and ford.

cant run a competitive business you close up or go out of business.

[VL Executive]

Yeah but, I think they have a right to whinge. As most of the Australian car buying public nowdays are buying Imports instead of the large aussie cars. If the support is not there, how can they survive. We Holden / Commodore car enthusiasts want Commodore to remain in production - But unfortuantly we're being outnumbered by people with the "its just a car" attitude and all they want is somthing to get from A to B, uses bugger all fuel, cheap to buy, not worried about space and comfort, not worried weather the driving wheels are the back or the front etc. Cars like all the small Mazdas, Toyotas, etc

Then you get the "soft roader crowd" and all they want too look at is Rav 4's, X trails, Foresters, Klugers, etc

Then theres the increased popularity of 4x4 commercial vehicles as family transport such as Hilux, Navara, Triton, Colorado, BT-50, etc dual cab utes. Or the 4x4 wagons like Prado, Pajero, Landcruiser, etc.

All of the above are imports, are stiff competition for the traditional Commodore and Falcon that once dominated.

Part of my job is to slash the highway verges on the outskirts of town - and of the cars I would see over a 1/2 hour, Imported vehicles would outnumber Commodore's and Falcon's about 10 to 1. And its mostly small 4 cylinder sedans and hatches, or 4x4's and soft roaders

[SAMCRO]

boo ****ing hoo to gm and ford.

cant run a competitive business you close up or go out of business.

WELL SAID! SO F@#KING TRUE!! But wait, the ceo and board of directors won't get their annual half a million bonuses for sitting on their asses.. hahaha pathetic it is!!!

Also to an earlier thread about them paying GST... They charge it too everyone else first, before they pay it back to ATO, so they don't pay shit on GST, we pay that too...
Just close the F@#king business..!!