Tune for E85?

[SSVHM2.5]

Has anyone tuned there 6 Ltr for E85? I have read quite a bit about it latly and it looks like some great gains can be made. The fuel is reported as being as high as 110 octane. My engine pings a little under slight load in high gears even after an Autotechnique tune. I believe the higher octane associated with E85 would stop this. My only concern is avialability, even though I live in Melbourne...

[jono0309]

I think E85 is good for cost efficiency but you use more of the fuel. I think power wise, the only REAL gain can be made through forced induction or high compression. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[planetdavo]

Maybe having them back off their tune a little would be a better "real world" situation than having to find obscure fuel to suit their (it appears) rather highly "optimised" end result...

[raff]

Unless you have a series 2 or use a x-cal type arrangement- tuning for E85 would obviously restrict you to E85 which in Melbourne is few and far between which would be a real pain in the arse. I have a series 2 and find the cost vs milage is in favour of 98 octane regular fuel. Seat of the pants performance I cant notice much power wise between the two. I occasionally can notice a momentary ping under load, high gear, low speed- both running BP98 and E85, fuel octane hasn't made a difference.

if your worried about regular pinging the answer should be in the tune, not upping the fuel octane- the tune should suit the fuel at time of tune, not the other way round! Speak to the guys at Autotechnique and ask their advice

[SSVHM2.5]

Thanks Raff, very interesting. My car is an 07 manual SSV and suffered from this ping under load, high gear low speed since i got it. I thought the tune would have fixed this and it is better but still there, especially on Shell or when the outside temp is hot. It is better on Caltex and BP. The car made 259 rwkw with the usual tune/OTR and HSV headers and HM 2.5.

[raff]

My tune is also Autotechnique, have essentially the same setup as yourself, HSV headers, Ballistic 100cpi cats, HM mid section, standard rear cans (to stop AFM drone!) VCM OTR but mine is an auto and put out a conservative 219rw. If i labour the box (generally in normal drive mode) I can pick a slight ping but it is momentary. My understanding is pinging is not good at anytime so if yours is more prevalent I would see if an adjustment in tune can make the difference. I would take reliability over dyno rwkw any day!

Im not sure how true it is but I was told short headers like the HSV headers can accentuate pinging noise more than long tubes or cast headers?? I must admit I never noticed any with the standard cast headers. I guess whether you can hear it or not shouldn't matter- if it exists, its bad!

[chrisjb]

Unless you have a series 2 or use a x-cal type arrangement- tuning for E85 would obviously restrict you to E85 which in Melbourne is few and far between which would be a real pain in the arse. I have a series 2 and find the cost vs milage is in favour of 98 octane regular fuel. Seat of the pants performance I cant notice much power wise between the two. I occasionally can notice a momentary ping under load, high gear, low speed- both running BP98 and E85, fuel octane hasn't made a difference.

if your worried about regular pinging the answer should be in the tune, not upping the fuel octane- the tune should suit the fuel at time of tune, not the other way round! Speak to the guys at Autotechnique and ask their advice

I would have thought you would still need an x-cal or similar to run both E85 & 98 after a tune? Is this not the case?
Would be very interested to find out if this is the case.

[macca_779]

I think E85 is good for cost efficiency but you use more of the fuel. I think power wise, the only REAL gain can be made through forced induction or high compression. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Your wrong. I got gains in my vt using eflex. Noticeable throughout the rev range

[macca_779]

Unless you have a series 2 or use a x-cal type arrangement- tuning for E85 would obviously restrict you to E85 which in Melbourne is few and far between which would be a real pain in the arse. I have a series 2 and find the cost vs milage is in favour of 98 octane regular fuel. Seat of the pants performance I cant notice much power wise between the two. I occasionally can notice a momentary ping under load, high gear, low speed- both running BP98 and E85, fuel octane hasn't made a difference.

if your worried about regular pinging the answer should be in the tune, not upping the fuel octane- the tune should suit the fuel at time of tune, not the other way round! Speak to the guys at Autotechnique and ask their advice

If you optimize for eflex it will work out cheaper. I haven't really looked into the series 2 calibrations. But if history serves Holden would of done a half arse job with it. So get it tuned by someone that has experience with ethanol

I use ~15-20% more using eflex over 98. At 35+c/L cheaper it accounts for the extra consumption no problem.

For a series 2 with proper flex fuel capabilities you would have to be mad not to use it.

I just wish I could get it locally. Have spoken to my local caltex. They have tanks lined and ready to go for it but can't justify it due to demand. This means all you series 2 owners need to get off your arses and start being vocal to the servos so they know the demand is there

[raff]

If you optimize for eflex it will work out cheaper. I haven't really looked into the series 2 calibrations. But if history serves Holden would of done a half arse job with it. So get it tuned by someone that has experience with ethanol

I use ~15-20% more using eflex over 98. At 35+c/L cheaper it accounts for the extra consumption no problem.

For a series 2 with proper flex fuel capabilities you would have to be mad not to use it.

I just wish I could get it locally. Have spoken to my local caltex. They have tanks lined and ready to go for it but can't justify it due to demand. This means all you series 2 owners need to get off your arses and start being vocal to the servos so they know the demand is there

The problem is the high majority of series 2 owners will not alter their factory tunes and at current prices, E-flex is just not worth it.

I think the 20% more figure is about right for the factory tune on series 2 if conservatively cruising. The problem I have found in Melbourne is the price of E-flex is creeping up. When 98 was sitting at $1.50 some months ago, I was often buying E-flex at sub $1.20. More recently when 98 is around $1.55, I am seeing E-flex closer to $1.30, 25c difference or 20% cheaper. The hassle of traveling further to get it negates any savings made in my opinion. Perhaps its a catch 22- less demand, higher costs to keep it with less turnover and thus even further diminishes the demand- at the current price its not a great enough saving to get excited about it. I never see anyone at the E-flex bowser at my local when driving past.

One big difference I notice is driving style. I found on the highway E-flex would give around a 15% higher usage and quite often better than that- but, put the foot down on shorter journeys and there is a marked difference, I would say a good 30% increase over 98 (again maybe a decent E85 specific tune would help here). For me, regular petrol wins the day for convenience and milage (until the price comes down to sub 35c/lt cheaper than 98!)

[sixlta]

I have notice that almost every united servo no have e85 and 100ron, stuff Is becoming more available no, I can get to 6 servos in under 20km that sell both

[SSVHM2.5]

What do you think of the United product? I have never used it...

[zorro]

I've been using united100 for a few months now and have got my ve table and timing spot on (thanks Luis @ APS for the fueling advice). Haven't played with lean cruise yet however I'm still getting 500klm plus a tank so I'm not too worried atm.

If your afrs are on the rich side throw 100 in and you should be safe, extra safe take it to autotechnique and get them to check afrs.

E85 is available and along with eflex opens up more service stations to pick from. Get it retuned for it and happy days

[dogsballs]

have a L76 6.0 tuned on e-flex, running 12.0:1 compression and running decent times down the strip. Ethanol is awesome, no way i could run that much comp and make as much hp with-out it. thing is that there are very few tuners that have their head around the tuning side and still run them lean like petrol ie lamba's 0.9 or equivalent 12 high AFR's. Luis has played with mine recently and we're down to 0.8 lamba ~11.8 AFR's, but still think we can shove more fuel into it, down to .74 lambda.

also your car should NOT be noticeably pinging. if it is i'd be down to Mario and get him to sort it out. not acceptable.

There are currently 8 caltex service stations serving e-flex and 2 uniteds selling E85 (that i know of). it will be the way of the future fuel wise for performance cars.

[zorro]

Dales car is a good bit of proof the e85 is good gear, in a sense a standard motor with shaved heads pushing 400rwhp through a decent stalled auto.

Btw dale we having souvlaki for dinner and the trampoline misses you