Falcon & Territory to disappear forever after 2016

[macca_779]

I have driven plenty of AWD and they are too nose heavy for my liking, just my opinion. I know it is the 21st Century maybe you should let the F1 boys know about this "new" technology called AWD...

What cars? A lot of AWDs behave like a FWD and even bias that way. Ie not a clear indication for performances based motoring.


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[Martin_D]

I have driven plenty of AWD and they are too nose heavy for my liking, just my opinion. I know it is the 21st Century maybe you should let the F1 boys know about this "new" technology called AWD...

Maybe rewrite their rules so that AWD is legal, and they will thank you
Comparing what is essentially a spaceship (F1 car) to a road car (VE Commodore) is drawing a long bow IMO

Folks that reckon RWD is 'superior' quick, apples with apples need to get out and do some events. It doesnt take much effort to make a $60,000 STi AWD keep lap pace with $350,000 worth of 997 GT3 on the racetrack and absolutely destroy them in tarmac events. This I know, and I am a fairly useless driver. The quick guys make the gap even bigger.

Top 20 results, Australias biggest/fastest Hillclimb event for predominantly street/tarmac cars (2011 Mount Alma Mile), first RWD in 20th place outright - http://mountalmamile.com/Portals/0/2...ts/overall.pdf
Out of 113 cars in the field, 76 of them were RWD.......

[adr8]

Maybe rewrite their rules so that AWD is legal, and they will thank you

Thats the point I am getting at, F1 can rewrite the rules if they wish but they haven't! Why? Secondly why are 80% of supercars produced today RWD not AWD.

[mac06]

One of the problems Australia has is simple economics of scale. We are really just a cottage industry on the world stage. To give an idea of what I mean, China has sold 487,208 GM only products in January and February alone, 240,554 of those in February. The US has sold 209,306 GM products in February. Where do we sit in all of this? 85,723 in February across all manufacturers.
We either get to lose our manufacturing skills in Australia to other countries, all of which subsidize the motor industry because they see the importance of government investment in this area, or the Australian government matches the incentives other governments offer. It's not about whether the manufacturers can afford stand on their own two feet or not, it's about head offices in the US deciding to take advantage of these incentives on offer. If Australia doesn't offer them Ford and GM could decide to go elsewhere, where they are on offer.

[Martin_D]

Thats the point I am getting at, F1 can rewrite the rules if they wish but they haven't! Why? Secondly why are 80% of supercars produced today RWD not AWD.

Yes, yes they can do whatever they want whenever they want F1 has no rules
I have no idea what I am talking about, of course 80% of Supercars are RWD.
Your VE is faster than any R35 GTR
And I have NEVER driven a Gallardo
Happy?

More importantly which is quicker in GT5? Thats where the action really is

[VYBerlinaV8]

Interesting to see the angst about AWD vs RWD. Having gone from a RWD to an AWD, I'll admit to being a convert. Yep, AWD adds weight and friction, but the grip under acceleration, especially when cornering, is worlds apart. No, the AWD doesn't drop burnouts, but I don't really care - the extra performance makes it worthwhile.

I think we also need to bear in mind the differences between stock and modified, and what we use our cars for. For real world performance, I'm not a fan of front wheel drive, as I seem to get to understeer a bit early. Rear wheel drive was fun, but once it got out of shape it wasn't quick (but it was entertaining). The AWD I have now is much more benign, but the limits of adhesion and the speed it carries through corners is far superior.

Ultimately, it's about finding what you like, and what suits your driving. I don't expect others to necessarily agree with my choices, but it is worth trying some different configurations to see the difference.

[seldo]

I have driven plenty of AWD and they are too nose heavy for my liking, just my opinion. I know it is the 21st Century maybe you should let the F1 boys know about this "new" technology called AWD...

Unfortunately, the F1 rule-makers are aware that the very-limited-spectacle that currently is F1 would peter-out completely if they allowed AWD, so it is banned, because it is so clinically effective...
Like I said - welcome to the 21st century...
You really should broaden your horizons one day and go and drive an AWD in anger...quite a shock to the system, although your cheer-squad mates would be saying that you weren't trying...

[zorro]

If by awd being useless lets go back to early 1980s when a little company by the name of Audi released an awd hatch and called it a quattro. This car also went out and dominated the rally scene for a good few years after this. Weird huh.

Nissan later on in the 80s made an awd too, called it an r32 gtr, this also had some success.

Also in the 80s a little mob called Lancia came out and won some rallies with awd.

Probably my most memorable is the mid to late 90s 2.0l supertourer era when Audi again brought an awd car into racing and dominated, even with concrete blocks in the boot as penalties. Soon enough though awd was banned and they continued without as big success as fwd...

Awd is fantastic and can turn average drivers into not so average drivers and if you get a chance to drive one at pace you will see how good it is.

What I've found is most have an issue adjusting driving style to the car hence having bad experiences behind the wheel and a generalization of something being no good. As said earlier a lambo is miles ahead over an rs impreza, and if you think an rs is bad would be silly to think lambo is the same.....

[Martin_D]

Awd is fantastic and can turn average drivers into not so average drivers .....

More so turn average cars into good cars. Nothing wrong with Jones/McConville/Richards/Skaife as drivers who all won with AWD cars in Aussie tarmac race series
Its a pity we never got the AWD SS....apparently it was so close.

Got stuck in the snow last year in an XR6. The thing wouldnt move in less than 2cm of snow, and when it did it was downright dangerous. AWD cars simply drove past...

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

Ok I'm going to admit my next statement is going to be from something I read/saw in a magazine....

I read a little while ago a review on hot hatches and they took a bunch of them over to Wakefield to do some laps. What surprised me was the fastest cars around the track was the Megane RS then the focus RS and then the WRX. Thought it was surprising the fastest 2 cars were FWD beating the AWD WRX. Anybody able to make comment on that?

Now I have been in WRX's before and have been astounded by how hard they do corner and power out of bends but I have never been in a quick fwd drive car so I can't make real world comparisons.

[zorro]

I wasn't having a dig at them, moreso the average joe on the streets.

I still don't believe an awd commodore would of won too many over, ultimately no matter what wheels drive it it's still the same car.

I'm hoping the new commodore can be something Torana concept size and if we have to inherit it from the states be like the exports an have an Aussie friendly front end on it. Also a variety of engines from 4cyl to small capacity v8 (a la audi) an drive trains. The future of large saloons is dieing so rather than turn us all sterile with transport being transport with no emotion behind it adapt to the surroundings and keep us all interested.

[macca_779]

All the cross 8 shit was pretty rubbish for performance based motoring. An AWD SS would of had its arse handed to it by a RWD equivalent. Look at the coupe 4. It was not quick by any stretch as the hardware added a lot of weight.


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[zorro]

A vz body on a Nissan patrol chassis would of been pretty useful

[shaneooo]

Sooo yeah, um how about those Falcons and Commodores......and 2016.....

[macca_779]

A vz body on a Nissan patrol chassis would of been pretty useful

Until it bent at the first sign of some decent articulation.