Supercharged HSV this year?....I say yes.

[Martin_D]

Regardless it probably will be a collectors item as it will be the last of the VE true performance cars.
If only we got the special coupe they planned 10 years back.....I would still have mine now!

[bouka]

You're way off Davo.

FPV did it and the motor is available in the XR8 (which is what the GS was going to be till the 12 hour).

If they can built a ripper of a motor and meet all of the requirements necessary to put it into production then why can't HSV. They are a much bigger organisation.

[planetdavo]

You're way off Davo.

FPV did it and the motor is available in the XR8 (which is what the GS was going to be till the 12 hour).

If they can built a ripper of a motor and meet all of the requirements necessary to put it into production then why can't HSV. They are a much bigger organisation.

I think you got it wrong bouka.
LSA has vastly more power and torque than Ford's motor, and huge torque in particular is a car killer. Spread that vastly higher development over way less number of cars than FPV will fit this (lower power/torque) engine to their current range, and it's easy peasy to see why it would cost a heap more per car to engineer. Then add on the inevitable model specific options developed to make the car unique (rather than a pure engine swap as FPV did) and the budget keeps going up and up. Finally, to keep away the tyre kickers, you price it to an aspirational level, well above the "common" models.
The "problem" is that many, many people on here only see cars with a more powerful engine as being a car with a more powerful engine. If a tuner can throw in a bigger engine then it must be that simple, right?
Not right. Making highly modified cars hang together costs a LOT of money. Most people don't spend it, and they keep blowing things up for some reason...
If Ford ever release a GTHO with well over 600Nm of torque then they will have to spend a mint upgrading many parts of the driveleine to suit too. Hence, I doubt we'll ever see another GTHO.

[planetdavo]

Regardless it probably will be a collectors item as it will be the last of the VE true performance cars.
If only we got the special coupe they planned 10 years back.....I would still have mine now!

You must have been a different person back then Martin, considering HRT427, if released, would have been over 250K nearly 10 years ago...

[Martin_D]

You must have been a different person back then Martin, considering HRT427, if released, would have been over 250K nearly 10 years ago...

They were actually quoting under $150K on the sale contract actually......(if memory serves me right)
For what it apparently had in it the HRT427 represented outstanding value!

[planetdavo]

They were actually quoting under $150K on the sale contract actually......(if memory serves me right)
For what it apparently had in it the HRT427 represented outstanding value!

Most of us know why it was never built Martin. WAY too much of the donor car needed to be changed to make it remotely affordable. That "suggested" RRP price must have been written on some dunny paper by someone's kid...

[zorro]

Don't know why though davo, you could buy a monaro shell direct through ac delco. Add to that the special bits and pieces plus some oem parts bin gear and you had a hrt427.......

[Xjas]

Then add on the inevitable model specific options developed to make the car unique (rather than a pure engine swap as FPV did) and the budget keeps going up and up. Finally, to keep away the tyre kickers, you price it to an aspirational level, well above the "common" models.

Maybe that was the problem with the W427, people saw it for what it was, it was not really unique, it was little more than a GTS with a bigger engine at nearly double the price. I would think GTS buyers would pay an extra $10k to $20k for the same car with a supercharged engine and suitable driveline rather than pay and extra $50k just so the car is "unique". Also to claim that it would "cost a LOT of money" to engineer a suitable driveline for the LSA is a bit absurd when the LSA is already engineered in a passenger vehicle chassis in the states, they would be simply transfering the technology over to the VE.

[zorro]

You're way off Davo.

FPV did it and the motor is available in the XR8 (which is what the GS was going to be till the 12 hour).

If they can built a ripper of a motor and meet all of the requirements necessary to put it into production then why can't HSV. They are a much bigger organisation.

George when are the fg going to have the 5.0? I know you are more privy to this than most , last I heard the fg xr8 were running the 5.4 until they ran out of stock and the xr8 was to be put on the shelf next to the fairlane. Xr6t remain the last performance 'ford' before stepping upto fpv gs.

[bouka]

Hey Ash, I am just some hick Ford fanboy, what would I know!

Forget the fact ithat this is my first ford and I have had a heap of HSV's.

Chat off line.

[planetdavo]

Maybe that was the problem with the W427, people saw it for what it was, it was not really unique, it was little more than a GTS with a bigger engine at nearly double the price. I would think GTS buyers would pay an extra $10k to $20k for the same car with a supercharged engine and suitable driveline rather than pay and extra $50k just so the car is "unique". Also to claim that it would "cost a LOT of money" to engineer a suitable driveline for the LSA is a bit absurd when the LSA is already engineered in a passenger vehicle chassis in the states, they would be simply transfering the technology over to the VE.

There have been expensive HSV "specials" in the past that offered far less unique qualities than W427. Yes they cost less, but you also didn't get much different either.
Saying this though, which are the models that are worth the bucks now, and which are simply "old HSV's"? Yep, the pricey ones are the ones people talk about. GTS-R is probably the most talked about, yet what was it? It was a GTS painted in Vic taxi yellow with a bit of carbon fibre on it, and nothing unique at all about the driveline!
I think you've over-simplified the whole "engineering" process Xjas.
Yes, this engine is an existing engine, but it has NEVER been fitted into a VE Zeta chassis as a production car anywhere in the world. The closest it has got is the 2012 Camaro, which to quote GM..."The all-new, 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 is powered by the LSA 6.2L supercharged V-8 engine that produces an estimated 550 horsepower (410 kW) and 550 lb.-ft. of torque (745 Nm)."
That is rather massive torque compared to existing outputs.
Again this gets back to what I was saying about engine swaps. Your post indicates that you are also one of the people that feels that if an engine bolts in and runs, it's "engineered". Out in tuner land maybe, but not for a manufacturer.
Far from it in fact. Everything from the engine mounts to the gearbox mount, diff assembly, rear suspension mountings, arms and bushes, hot weather cooling and fuel systems, to the shell itself must be engineered to withstand this level of torque, all whilst meeting long term reliability, emissions testing and driveability expectations. Holden/HSV have to do all this over what, 200 cars?
Big cost.

[bouka]

Why do you think it will be a limited run Davo?

Surely your mates at HSV have learnt from the W experience.

Do you honestly think that they would make the same error?

Surely, with the everyday, mundane and overhyped sc GT, a one off super expensive LE would be a recipe for disaster.

What do you think will happen?

[planetdavo]

Hey Ash, I am just some hick Ford fanboy, what would I know!

Forget the fact ithat this is my first ford and I have had a heap of HSV's.

Chat off line.

Having owned a number of cheaper HSV's doesn't mean you were genuinely in the market for an expensive limited edition model. W427 was a new market for HSV, and realistically would find many new buyers over "mainstream" HSV's. They can't please everyone with cars like this, nor will they be trying to.
Try to please everyone and all you you end up doing is doing your head in (or stuffing a successful car company).

[planetdavo]

Why do you think it will be a limited run Davo?

Surely your mates at HSV have learnt from the W experience.

Do you honestly think that they would make the same error?

Surely, with the everyday, mundane and overhyped sc GT, a one off super expensive LE would be a recipe for disaster.

What do you think will happen?

Why would it be a "disaster"? Because you say it would? How many would have sold if the GFC hadn't come along so close to W427 launch time? W427 was more likely to be bought by "new money" players and speculators, often cashed up on big sharemarket trades or golden periods of profit from their business ownership. "Old money" types tend to be less affected by sharemarket destroying events like the gfc, and wouldn't be seen dead in an Australian made car, so they kept buying their (mostly) euro cars.
Think you are trying to play in two different customer bases at once here bouka, comparing GT to W427. A W427 buyer might buy a GT to do the shopping in...

[bouka]

Ah Davo, assumptions are the failure of any argument and a real indicator of naivety.

The W must have been the most targetted bit of marketing in local motor vehicle manufacturing history.

Let's move on shall we. As I have many times in the past, I love the W. Poorly executed marketing and strategy is what killed it.

Please refrain from making assumptions about my wants, needs, etc. You have no idea and it adds nothing to the conversation.

HSV would love to hear that the LS3 Senator Signature was a cheap HSV.