VF Commodore revealed - Official details and pics- Part 2

[CLUBRED]

Out of interest what did she buy

i30 diesel. I didn't like the steering wheel, and the clutch pedal clicks everytime you used it (on both cars), rear vision was iffy, and it still had the gear throw of a late 90's excel - and my pet hate, not really a draw back I guess was, it tells you what gear to be in, if you want a car to tell you that buy an auto.

[macca_779]

i30 diesel. I didn't like the steering wheel, and the clutch pedal clicks everytime you used it (on both cars), rear vision was iffy, and it still had the gear throw of a late 90's excel - and my pet hate, not really a draw back I guess was, it tells you what gear to be in, if you want a car to tell you that buy an auto.

A few cars I've driven do that. It's actually not a bad feature from an economy perspective as a lot of drivers don't accurately gauge effective gear selection

Then again a lot of auto's don't gauge accurate gear selection well either

[planetdavo]

i30 diesel. I didn't like the steering wheel, and the clutch pedal clicks everytime you used it (on both cars), rear vision was iffy, and it still had the gear throw of a late 90's excel - and my pet hate, not really a draw back I guess was, it tells you what gear to be in, if you want a car to tell you that buy an auto.

Mate, so many drivers have either been dumbed down so much these days or are so damn selfish they can't even find the indicator stalk anymore, or stop before the white line at traffic lights- even when they can see pedestrians ready to cross. I, like many, see this stuff on a daily basis. I have no doubt at all that some drivers NEED this indication to know what to do next.

[csv rulz]

i30 diesel. I didn't like the steering wheel, and the clutch pedal clicks everytime you used it (on both cars), rear vision was iffy, and it still had the gear throw of a late 90's excel - and my pet hate, not really a draw back I guess was, it tells you what gear to be in, if you want a car to tell you that buy an auto.

Haven't driven a new I30 so can't really comment, they look alright and interior seems nicer than a lot on the market.

We too bought a car that a lot of people didn't agree with and bagged but after test driving close to 20 cars it was the best all round car for what we wanted. Since buying it everyone that has driven it has been surprisingly impressed with its drive, quality and features

[mrtockley]

Dude, you need to re-think what the hell you've written.
Besides the muddle of spelling errors, you have so many faults in your claims.
You claim "Maybe people are happy to settle for lower qualiity allround engineering and design". The engineering and design of VE is WORLD CLASS. It's been exported to many parts of the world, and VF will continue that. The GFC prematurely killed off most exports, NOT the engineering and design of the car.
So you claim that VE lacking engineering effort, yet defend noisy imports on our common course chip roads as having "superior" engineering? As you serious?!!! Why do they have so much trouble "engineering" superior noise reduction into their cars?
Again with engineering. I'll use VAG Group as an example (VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat). Why does that group suffer from so many DSG issues? So many engine failures and oil burning issues? So many expensive diesel injector failures? So many air conditioning failures? Most seem to happen just outside warranty...
Do I need to go on?
SO, I get back to my earlier point.
Having said just above why Commodore is still on the pace in many ways, and imports also aren't perfect, tell me WHY imports are so superior?
I mean, Holden introduced tighter body shut lines than nearly every import 7 years ago, and are STILL tighter than most of them. Tight shut lines needs strong design and manufacturing capabilities to come out in the final product, as most manufacturers wont go this tight as any variances are more easily noticeable.
If it's NOT down to saving a few dollars on trim finish, or the resolution of the in-dash screen, or what's included in the standard cost of the car, or whatever, then what is it?
Is Holden not using modern GM drivelines? Seems they are. Direct injection V6's, current spec V8's, 6 speed auto's, diffs from the highly respected ZF. Same with the steering rack.
Is it because they hadn't put radar adaptive cruise in their 40K large car? Most expected stuff appears to be in the upper luxury cars- with a small number of exceptions. Look at what you get for your 50 something K though in such a large and comfortable car that's surprisingly light on fuel for something so big.
Do they "need" a turbo 4 cyl so favoured by European manufacturers? Go have a look at Falcon sales with such an engine.
Still looking for ingrained engineering "problems", besides obviously plastic looking trim and lower resolution iQ screens.
The large car used to be the default choice for many buyers, private and fleet. Private buyers brought up on a diet of family Holden's and Ford's, combined with Aussie pride, bought them in huge numbers. Fleets ususally dictated these cars as the main options.
Now, we have around 60 DIFFERENT BRANDS competing for just ONE million sales. Most Aussies don't give a toss about Aussie Made anymore- someone elses problem. Large cars aren't "cool" anymore. SUV's are "cool". Small cars have perceived much lower running costs (reality often isn't close to the perceived savings). Crew cab tradie utes have exploded into the "family car" domain, even though most are still pretty rough around the edges.
I'm sure I could come up with more.

Again I agree with a lot of this Davo but differ on a few. Yes the VE is a great fantastic big comfortable Aussie cruiser. It can tow and fit big Aussies in it in relative comfort. It was benchmarked against the (at the time) BMW 5 series. It kicked a big goal for Aussie motoring and ticked a lot of boxes back in 06. That was then and a lot of things have changed. The VF isn't a new car by any means and adding new tech (that has been a long time coming anyway) has IMO only allowed them to just catch up to where a lot of other manufacturers have been for years. There are still a lot of weak points due to the apron strings that Holden are tied to being GM. The transmissions aren't world class and either are the engines. Because we now have to follow global (read American) motoring trends, Holden can only ever be as good as what GM let's them and we aren't high on their 'give a ****' list. The engineering simply can't be called world class when they don't back it up with a good warranty. More and more companies are offering 5 year warranty and capped servicing and that shows people confidence in the product. Like it or not (and I know you don't) Hyundai in the next 10 years will be one of the biggest car makers in the world. The fact that more and more people are switching to Diesel tells me 2 things - it's now cheaper than petrol at the pump (it was 1.47 yesterday vs 1.50 something for 91) and the 'gap' between petrol and diesel price at the dealer is minimizing because its no longer a niche market. Even the servos have moved the pumps and taken it away from the dirty corner of the servo. I for one am happy to trade 6 or 7 liters per 100 as opposed to 15 something from my V8 in stop start traffic. Which is exactly why I'm looking at a new Sante Fe. 420 Nm from a tiny variable direct injection diesel that costs less to service than my V8, does nearly 1000 kays off a tank and can fit 7 people, with all the bells and whistles for less than an SSV and peace of mind of a 5 year warranty. My SSV has been a great car, but it was strange how many things started to go wrong after the 3 to 4 year mark. Food for thought. Sorry for the long post!

[vessloveit]

If you drive a lot of other new cars on offer it's very simple to understand.

My comment was about the spelling etc not the gist of the post.

[mrtockley]

When did the edit feature disappear ?? Edit - the Sante Fe has 436Nm. The CX-5 has 420.

[jc_sv8]

Flame suit on...

I'm actually looking at the new Mazda6. Bigger all round, lots of tech (GT model, I wouldn't waste the extra money on the Atenza).
And gee what a good looking vehicle in the flesh, with those new front guards hinting at the RX8 in a sedan guise.

Otherwise the VF-SS will be my new car this year...

[mrtockley]

Flame suit on...

I'm actually looking at the new Mazda6. Bigger all round, lots of tech (GT model, I wouldn't waste the extra money on the Atenza).
And gee what a good looking vehicle in the flesh, with those new front guards hinting at the RX8 in a sedan guise.

Otherwise the VF-SS will be my new car this year...

Test drove the new 6 the other day. Nearly as big as a Falcon but only
weighs 1500 odd. Beautiful gearbox with paddles and a heap of awesome tech and 5.7 liters per hundred. It has it's downside too but overall it is a beautiful car. One main negative is the 10,000 Kay service interval. Wtf?

[Alex(AUS)]

Obviously local cars must, by necessity, be developed on lower budgets than global vehicles.

Funny that ... considering the price and features being sold in US VF vs what we are offered here ie ... less for much more ... There is plenty of "meat" in the margins for development and plenty of scope to sell the (Australian developed and funded) VF in Australia for much less ... That would make a much greater value proposition for Aussies with great comfort and overall performance ...

Alex

[Speedy Gonzales]

Flame suit on...

I'm actually looking at the new Mazda6. Bigger all round, lots of tech (GT model, I wouldn't waste the extra money on the Atenza).
And gee what a good looking vehicle in the flesh, with those new front guards hinting at the RX8 in a sedan guise.

Otherwise the VF-SS will be my new car this year...

It is a very nice looking car, saw one drive by the other day and wow, it stands out in that red, almost Dodge Charger like from front with the open grill, wouldnt surprise me if it won family car segment for the year

[Plenty]

Flame suit on...

I'm actually looking at the new Mazda6. Bigger all round, lots of tech (GT model, I wouldn't waste the extra money on the Atenza).
And gee what a good looking vehicle in the flesh, with those new front guards hinting at the RX8 in a sedan guise.

Otherwise the VF-SS will be my new car this year...

Huh? I'll have what your smoking!

Whilst external measurements are "close", internally there is a vast difference in size in the the VE/F favour.

How can one shop for a sloooooow Mazda 6 and then say if not that it'll be a high powered V8? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

[Plenty]

Funny that ... considering the price and features being sold in US VF vs what we are offered here ie ... less for much more ... There is plenty of "meat" in the margins for development and plenty of scope to sell the (Australian developed and funded) VF in Australia for much less ... That would make a much greater value proposition for Aussies with great comfort and overall performance ...

Alex

I don't believe the Chev SS pricing has actually been released yet, it was all just speculation from the media.

[mrtockley]

I don't believe the Chev SS pricing has actually been released yet, it was all just speculation from the media.

There's been a hell of a lot of speculation though. The fact is, even if the price was on parity, the Chevy SS gets a 6.2, Brembos, paddles for the gear box and other tech and features that we don't. Which is basically saying that us dumb Aussies can get the shit version and we'll happily pay more for less.

[C4B]

There's been a hell of a lot of speculation though. The fact is, even if the price was on parity, the Chevy SS gets a 6.2, Brembos, paddles for the gear box and other tech and features that we don't. Which is basically saying that us dumb Aussies can get the shit version and we'll happily pay more for less.

You look after your priority clients first and foremost. I guess when final pricing is released we'll know who that is ;-)