VF Commodore revealed - Official details and pics- Part 2

[vessloveit]

I was listening some co workers discussing their options for a new car recently, two of them have a couple of young ones the other has no kids at home all adults, not one of them was contemplating a commodore sedan or wagon all had been looking at the mid sized SUV although not one of them will ever need or use the four wheel drive or the extra ride height.
Not once did they consider the extra running costs of these vehicles compared to the commodore variants.

[C4B]

Not once did they consider the extra running costs of these vehicles compared to the commodore variants.

Maybe there wasn't any?

My Prado costs hundreds less a year to register than my GTS, $1000 less a year to insure, gets 5+ litres per 100km better fuel economy and the tyres last 3 times longer.

With a 6 cylinder the costs would be closer in all areas but still wouldn't break even.

[CLUBRED]

I think Austalian drivers have forgotten how to drive. All these SUVs may have 5 stars but I's rather have a car with a better chance of avoiding a crash to be honest, and not saying that as pro-commodore, they just don't offer the driver teh same experience..

[Speedy Gonzales]

As many have said a hundred times, every country financially supports their car manufacturing operations. They just do it in different ways. Stop the assistance, they shut down, the workers go on the dole for ages. From a purely political perspective it is cheaper to subsidise the manufacturers than to let them shut down. Manufacturing employs vast numbers of Australians.
Most manufacturing will disappear from this country in the future. Unfortunately, the best we can realistically hope for is that we don't lose the "talent" along with it.
Governments for decades have been offloading their assets. Buying Holden will never happen.

The US gov bought GM using billions of tax dollars, the Aus gov could do the same with Holden, instead of everything going offshore, at least it is back in Australian hands.

Im sure Holden made things besides cars before, during and after the second world war, which means that it can be done.

[Plenty]

The US gov bought GM using billions of tax dollars, the Aus gov could do the same with Holden, instead of everything going offshore, at least it is back in Australian hands.

Im sure Holden made things besides cars before, during and after the second world war, which means that it can be done.

Even if the government did buy it I doubt gm would let it go and if it did where does Holden get its materials from as we tend to use global parts to minimise cost.

[Speedy Gonzales]

Even if the government did buy it I doubt gm would let it go and if it did where does Holden get its materials from as we tend to use global parts to minimise cost.

If it was bought back, there has to be an incentive to support local manufacturers, suppliers and customers, so the profits stays local and doesnt go offshore, it requires an overhaul in how things are done, prices will come down due to volume, you have volume, you get discounts.

[C4B]

I think Austalian drivers have forgotten how to drive..

I'm sure the new Commodore will help that situation with its self parking feature.... I'll stick with my ABS and nothing else equipped GTS. Nice to still have a car that you actually need to drive.

[macca_779]

I'm sure the new Commodore will help that situation with its self parking feature.... I'll stick with my ABS and nothing else equipped GTS. Nice to still have a car that you actually need to drive.

Absolutely. I enjoy the simplicity of my car in that regard

[powerd]

I get the distinct feeling that some of the younger members are perhaps too young to understand what actually makes the Aussie car uniquely "Australian".
The main reason Australia has been able to continue producing a unique vehicle (primarily) for this market is because it didn't really have much existing international competition from within their own respective internationally owned organisations. ..

Davo, I am, sadly, no longer one of the young'uns Nowhere near. But I do remember the history of automotive manaufacturing in Australia, even studied it at uni.

You gloosed over the citical reasons why we have indigenous cars, and still do. Post WW11, we had the manufacturing capability from building planes etc in the War, and the Govt recognised that an effective way to exploit that and build Australian capability, independence and jobs was to develop our own cars. Naturally, they would be more suited to our conditions and much better than the Pommy crap and and American larger, heavier and less fuel efficient cars. So we did, and what a hige success they were in a newly properous Australia. Following that, with strong Union encouragement, an intensive import tariff was developed to help the fledgling industry continue to develop and grow, by keeping out or reducing competition. Unfortunately, the industry grew up but became lazy and rather than following global changes and more competitive makers with global interest, and hid behind the protection barriers. The government finally realised that massive barriers and uncompetitive products costs the country and consumers huge money and less competitive product. But the industry has remained highly protected and supported most of its life and still been slow to respond. It is acting like a mature player, but in a newly youthful market, and that's not enough. As GM and Chrysler found in the US. Nissan and Mitsubishi realised that the future lay in high volume global production in lower cost countries and became more profitable importers here.

Tariff barriers were reduced, but support remained strong to enourage adaption. However, the reality, more competition, has only started to bite hard in the last 10-15 years. But consumer preference has changed dramatically, and the rugged, more basic and "honest Aussie hack" car is no longer what many buyers (fleet or private) want. We are affluent. Most interstate trips happen on a (now much cheaper) plane trip. If people go on a long trip, it is probably up the Pacific or down the Hume, mostly freeway. Reps and farmers don't automatically drive Falcodores anymore, other vehicles fo the job required. Fuel costs, high prosperity, smaller housheolds, better roads, user chooser fleets, lots of choices, global design and development, much more overseas travel by Aussies and seeing/driving other cars there, etc etc, all add up to a completely different market. They are no longer all that interested in the Falcodore type car. And it makes sense, when you stand in their shoes. Buying a car is a mainly pragmatic purchase for some, an emotional purchase for others, a business decision for others. Like many products and services in an affluent society.

Value perception is based on many and varying factors. I am one of the few people I know who would regularly benefit from the performance and rugged Aussie-road suited characteristics of the new SSV Sportsback I considered last November. I am a spirited driver who regularly drives poor country roads. But as a package, it had too many downsides for me, and I found better value elsewhere - yes an import, but where it was made was not directly relevant. And my decision has proved right for me.

I have never seen a business succeed long term by thinking the customer's failure to prefer their product was wrong, or for that matter, by begging them to be patriotic. Holden's only successful answer is to build a product enough Australians (and overseas buyers to get volume up) actually want now at the price they will pay, and will turn a decent return on investment.

Forget "football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars", that's failed.

The big improvements in the VF will make it more competitive for some private or user chooser buyers. Had it been available last November, it would have been closer for me.But I would still have had issues with some other parts of the car not being up to scratch, as others have referred to here, so I can't say if I would have bought it.

Make the product people want, at a price they are willing to pay, and they will come. Just ask Hyundai, Toyota, VW etc.

[mac06]

It all comes down to ecomomics of scale. The reason imports are getting cheaper is a combination of the strong AUD and, more importantly, volumes produced. Remember that a year ago GM and PSA Peugeot Citroen created a global alliance. The reason was that they could share platforms, components and modules. That would mean lower costs and improved competitiveness over time. Post VF we will have to get a world car, whatever that is, for Holden to be competitive. In the meantime let's enjoy what we've got, a uniquely Australian car.

Under the terms of the agreement, GM and PSA Peugeot Citroën will share selected platforms, modules and components on a worldwide basis in order to achieve cost savings, gain efficiencies, leverage volumes and advanced technologies and reduce emissions. Sharing of platforms not only enables global applications, it also permits both companies to execute Europe-specific programs with scale and in a cost-effective manner.

Initially, GM and PSA Peugeot Citroën intend to focus on small and midsize passenger cars, MPVs and crossovers. The companies will also consider developing a new common platform for low emission vehicles. The first vehicle on a common platform is expected to launch by 2016.

http://media.gm.com/media/no/no/opel...sa_europe.html

[mattnsw]

Consumerism is forever changing, what is popular today is long forgotten tomorrow.

As consumers most of us look around for value in products that best suit our needs.
Not all but most of us do this. Then there are those who stick to what they know and never seriously consider something else. It’s a bit naive but that’s their prerogative

You’d have better luck teaching my daughter’s new puppy the theory behind Quantum Psychics than persuading someone like PD that there may be another car on the planet offering better value than a Holden.

That is until Holden goes belly up and the dealership he works for starts selling Chery. Talk about Economics Of Scale, now there’s a car for the people, a lot of people. The J1 is $9,990 drive away and you don’t have to worry about its resale value, it doesn’t have any.

Even I couldn’t argue against the value for money that price offers.

Get one now and you’ll have a classic as a keeper. The day is coming when the Chinese will dominate the market as they do with most other things these days and the first Chery’s will be the FJ’s, EH’s, HQ’s of the future motoring world.

Cashed up bogans buying early model Chery’s for their car collections, life doesn’t get any better.


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[mrtockley]

they just don't offer the driver teh same experience..

Or costs involved like low profile tyres, servicing of a V8, premium fuel or insurance.. Seriously, in our Nanny state, who can exploit 260+ kW now anyway?

[steve_t]

Consumerism is forever changing, what is popular today is long forgotten tomorrow.

As consumers most of us look around for value in products that best suit our needs.
Not all but most of us do this. Then there are those who stick to what they know and never seriously consider something else. It’s a bit naive but that’s their prerogative

You’d have better luck teaching my daughter’s new puppy the theory behind Quantum Psychics than persuading someone like PD that there may be another car on the planet offering better value than a Holden.

That is until Holden goes belly up and the dealership he works for starts selling Chery. Talk about Economics Of Scale, now there’s a car for the people, a lot of people. The J1 is $9,990 drive away and you don’t have to worry about its resale value, it doesn’t have any.

Even I couldn’t argue against the value for money that price offers.

Get one now and you’ll have a classic as a keeper. The day is coming when the Chinese will dominate the market as they do with most other things these days and the first Chery’s will be the FJ’s, EH’s, HQ’s of the future motoring world.

Cashed up bogans buying early model Chery’s for their car collections, life doesn’t get any better.


.

Quantum Psychics eh?

Don't forget that PD's position is not a completely unbiased on

[powerd]

Mattnsw

Agree completely. By luck, I went to the Shanghai Motorshow last year - now the second largest in the world. I was staggered at the range of local carmakers and how quickly they are catching up. Sure, there is some junk, but don't be fooled - those ones are cheap(or funny "copies") so the locals can buy them in big numbers. Only the smaller, cheaper locals had interiors of lower quality than the VE, paint seemed quite good and plenty of locally made cars(some of which were remakes of imported cars) were better. Some had more technology. If this is what they are like now, and how fast they are improving, what will they be like in 5-10 or even 15 years time? And don't forget the Indians TATA and Mahindra.

It won't be ordinary Cherys at $10k, it will be fully equipped mid sized cars at <$15k, and larger cars at <$20k. Who wouldn't look seriously and probably buy? The big Euro names who build cars there now will also start bringing in their Chinese built cars - silly not to. And most Chinese makers are dead keen to sell internationally, but are overrun with buyers at home and know their safety and technology is not quite there yet. But they are all preparing for their global stampede. What sort of stoush will there be in the market then?

[Alex(AUS)]

I get the distinct feeling that some of the younger members are perhaps too young to understand what actually makes the Aussie car uniquely "Australian".
The Aussie car has never been cutting edge, and it's never tried to be. It's always been simply an honest, comfortable family car that traded some final polish for overall good value, and it still is that car.
The main reason Australia has been able to continue producing a unique vehicle (primarily) for this market is because it didn't really have much existing international competition from within their own respective internationally owned organisations. Enough people wanted the sort of car we designed for this country to prevent the big bosses shutting it all down.
Australia these days is rapidly becoming a country that doesn't give a sh!t about Australian business. Care factor about Australian manufacturing is heading toward non-existant by many. Some intentionally avoid Australian made- no matter what the benefits are.
So, people are buying many other choices made overseas, ignoring the still unique benefits of the Aussie designed and made vehicle for some of the different benefits of the imports. So, what I keep hearing is that people basically want Aussie cars to be the same as an import, and since it isn't, they buy an import.
As they are entitled to do, but there will be a price to pay one day, just as there will be a price to pay one day for the explosion in overseas internet shopping.
It might be gold TODAY with the high Aus dollar...BUT.
Just remember that in the future, once the US and Euro markets finally recover, our dollar will go DOWN. Everything imported will go up in price- just like it used to be much more expensive, and by then, peoples current habits will have killed off Australian manufacturing, and a big chunk of Australian retail.
Both the above are HUGE employers.
Good luck to your kids all finding jobs as you get older. They can "thank" those that slagged off "Aussie" as inferior- when they still had a chance to save it...

Great! So by applying the same business case to the US, Holden must sell the (Aussie tax payer backed) VF at the same price so the US variants. That way Australians will have 10k more in their pockets to spend on other Australian businesses. That will be great for the Australian economy and Aussie jobs.

Alex