Secret of the Holden deal

[DanielSS-V]

Unions look after number 1 .... Unions. Fcuk their members going on what was written above the unions didn't think that. Employees should be taking a $200 a week paycut which represented 10%?!?!?? So their on $2000 a week :shocked: I need to go learn how to put wheel nuts on a car.

That would no doubt include all on costs. You might be shocked just how much you cost your current employer too. Anyway if this new deal gets approved new Holden employees will get a worse deal and you can then sign right up for less.

[Shane-o]

Don't agree, Vf shits on offerings I have seen from the other two to date so far. Mazda also using false advertising on the "worlds first" regenerative breaking, No it aint. All they have done is improved on the technology with supercapacitor, But on advert they make it sound like they invented it.

[planetdavo]

You run a business inefficiently which the government owns, but have decent working conditions and pay for the staff. Alternatively you run a private business that is more efficient, but at the expense of the working conditions of staff and has the problems of overpaid executive staff and of course the shareholders.

The public don't get a good deal either way and rest assured will always end up paying more either way too. I can think of plenty of examples were the private sector has got the taxpayer more.

Its worth remembering US corporations have all but wiped out their own middle class and now having nothing left to milk are looking to impose the same working conditions on their overseas subsidiaries like Holden.

Each to their own, but if it was me at Holden, I would tell them to stick it and close down. If Holden/GM build a car that doesn't sell well, then let them make up the loss out of the pockets of the guys who approved the dam thing, not of the men and women who had no say and just built what they were told to build.

Since the government also is supposed to represent all of us, any monies to Holden should be on the proviso that Australian jobs are assured for a agreed period of time and Australian working conditions are protected for the same period of time.

Otherwise I think the Commonwealth should just tell them to hurry up and close and take their Yank nickel and dime thinking with them.

The money that was earmarked for Ford and GM should be expanded and offered to someone like Tesla to setup shop here and make electric vehicles for Australia and the Asian region. I'm sure many ex Holden and Ford engineers could be very valuable to a company like that.

Well that is certainly one way of looking at it, but not one I subscribe to. Every developed country in the world WANTS to have a car industry, and if nothing else, it creates a talent pool for many other sectors of the workforce. Remove the car industry, and you might as well kiss goodbye to much of that talent pool in this country. Besides the massive loss of jobs, it's the main thing I think the government realises...
I think the main interest in the next few years is to see whether many of the recent issues were created by the "perfect storm" of the high Aus dollar, or whether this country has had a generational change to really now be no different to every other country in the world. As in we have now lost our uniquely "Australian" identity forever, and have simply become global sheep little different to anywhere else on this planet.
That would be sad.

[VX2VESS]

It's a bit of a catch-22. Australians don't want to take pay cuts (we get payed very well compared to other parts of the world), complain when things manufactured here cost so much, then wonder why the jobs are shipped overseas and why companies like Holden can't even afford to function.

Basically: people don't buy Holden -> Holden don't make money -> Holden can't pay workers -> Holden can't make cars -> Holden ceases to exist. We're on steps 3 & 4 already with most Holden models either being entirely imported or having a significant amount of hardware imported and nothing but government subsidies stopping them from completely collapsing.

yes and the unions caused it. we buy cheaper imports because the local product is to expensive.

Rudds idiot plan is we make more here now the mining boom is going. we cannot compete on a world level in anything else for the same reasons, so that plan will never work.

[VX2VESS]

The workers have it too good. will still be on a good deal loosing what most don't have to start with in other areas. if not i'm sure the boat people will work for half that again, then we can get some cheaper cars that will be better value than imports

[VX2VESS]

coalition will cut funding pssft, half reporting.. they also will cut company taxes saving all of them money, that is a way to help the country, and no carbon tax, whats Rudds plan here work with them lol.

[Marco]

yes and the unions caused it. we buy cheaper imports because the local product is to expensive.

Rudds idiot plan is we make more here now the mining boom is going. we cannot compete on a world level in anything else for the same reasons, so that plan will never work.

Part true - yes, labour here is expensive but the high dollar makes imported cars much cheaper than local ones. It would be a very different world at say 70 cents to the US dollar.

Out of curiosity, what you do propose we do after the mining boom instead of making things? To me it seems that Rudd at least wants a local manufacturing industry, the other mob seem intent on not having one because they don't want to spend money on it.

[Jamolad]

If the workers give up future pay increases to ensure the survival of local production it should be on the proviso that, should Holden close down anyway, their redundancy payouts are calculated on what their wage would have been at that time if they had received the increases. That way this cannot be seen as Holden trying to reduce payouts if (when) the plant at the Beth closes, the workers don't get a reduced payout should it all hit the fan, and it is more incentive for management to keep the whole show going.

And this may be controversial but I think the workers should be allowed to use sick leave (without certificate) to top-up down-days, not just annual leave, until they only have something like 5 sick days left which must be retained in case of future illness. This would reward those that rarely if ever take a sick day as they will be the ones that have more than 5 sick days accrued, and these workers can keep their annual leave for legitimate holidays where you would want to take a slab of leave rather than a half day here and a day or two there. Sure, there might be the odd worker that then gets sick down the track and uses up the 5 days sick leave they had to retain and then has to take unpaid leave (if they have no annual leave accrued), but they won't be any worse off overall because if they had kept more of their sick days then they would not have been paid previously for the down days. Hope that makes sense.

[bozodos]

yes and the unions caused it. we buy cheaper imports because the local product is to expensive.

Rudds idiot plan is we make more here now the mining boom is going. we cannot compete on a world level in anything else for the same reasons, so that plan will never work.

We actually protect our car manufacturers a lot LESS than the other countries that produce cars, and our trade laws are very relaxed about importing. Added to that the usual Aussie cultural cringe about buying almost anything locally made these days. The "blame the unions" rhetoric is a convenient Lib supporter way of getting the blue collar types on side, but it's rubbish.

As stated before, you can blather on about this being the inevitable effect of globalisation, but when the mining boom busts, and all of the arable farm land is owned by overseas interests, what is the "lucky" country gonna do then?

[Ausmartin1]

yes and the unions caused it. we buy cheaper imports because the local product is to expensive.

Rudds idiot plan is we make more here now the mining boom is going. we cannot compete on a world level in anything else for the same reasons, so that plan will never work.

Ah - yes we do - Aluminium hulled boats, ----> Until it was signed out of the FREE TRADE agreement with the USA.
Are Australian politicians the only IDIOTS on this planet when it comes to negotiating so "Called" free trade agreements ?

Then we have them talking about "New industries" WHAT bloody new industries every thing that is made can be done cheaper elsewhere, any job in an office can be done in a third world country...
So that leaves R&D, Lawyers and Health care and a Tourist industry.

We have to keep manufacturing some how other wise will end up worse than the USA which is crumbling away and many either living pay check to pay check in poverty.

Some how we need to protect manufacturing (like every sensible country on earth does) - in a smart way, not just throw money at all possible costs like our politicians do when they panic.

I'm still hopeful...

[forcedindction]

Globalisation is failing Australia

[Tre-Cool]

Im not a fan of unions. Whenever I have worked for companies that have had to deal with them, they were always lead by big fat irish or english twats who thought their shit didnt stink and thought bullying would get there way.

You can live a pretty simple life when it comes to work and they are. A) if you **** up on the job, dont hide it. own up. B) you sign your employment contract on an agreed $$$ & conditions. Stick to them, do the hours and whats requested of you that you agreed too or find another job.

Not fckin hard.