Oil question

[QldKev]

You can run oil that a person on the Internet recommends, or run oil that a professional in the industry recommends based on oil analysis testing. I run the latter.

[XUV]

I hadn't seen that fluid before you mentioned it. I run penrite fluids now in diff, trans, engine and have their coolant to go in too. .

yeah, i see Penrite have just released a 6 year coolant , will have some of that , as my ute is due for a coolant change.

pity they're not sponsor on this site ........

[Drizt]

You can run oil that a person on the Internet recommends, or run oil that a professional in the industry recommends based on oil analysis testing. I run the latter.

Out of curiosity has mainlube tested the Penrite 10 Tenths yet?

[Gmfan]

You can run oil that a person on the Internet recommends, or run oil that a professional in the industry recommends based on oil analysis testing. I run the latter.

Not knowing too muching about oils but are there not compromises to different oil weights? Say for example I drive 5km to work each day and engine barely gets to operating temperature then would the oil recommended to me be the same as someone that drives longer and flogs car at every opportunity and occasional strip/ track day? Will a heavier weight 10w-60 provide same protection from cold as a 5w or 0w-30 type oil?

[QldKev]

Out of curiosity has mainlube tested the Penrite 10 Tenths yet?

I've not heard of any testing being done yet. It may end up a better oil. I'll await any test results before changing.

Not knowing too muching about oils but are there not compromises to different oil weights? Say for example I drive 5km to work each day and engine barely gets to operating temperature then would the oil recommended to me be the same as someone that drives longer and flogs car at every opportunity and occasional strip/ track day? Will a heavier weight 10w-60 provide same protection from cold as a 5w or 0w-30 type oil?

I'm no professional in the industry, so I can only speak as one of the 'people on the internet' and how I see it. The pour point of 10w60 is -42c and 0w40 is -54c. So temperatures up at 0c and warmer that we see, both oils will pump up pressure no problems. For that initial 1 or 2 seconds the lighter grade oil may pump up quicker, but we are most likely talking less than a second difference. Once you have pressure both oils will commence providing protection. The heavier oil then provides better film strength / protection once the engine starts to warm up, which is a lot longer period than the initial startup period.

Possibly the lighter oil may be better if you never drive more than 5km. But the big downside to it, if you/another driver of your car does ever decided to become boy racer, and drop the hammer from the lights then 1 occurrence of the film breaking down and allowing metal to metal will do a lot more damage than the advantage of the lighter oil on cold mornings.


Couple of notes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
Motor oil must be able to flow adequately at the lowest temperature it is expected to experience in order to minimize metal to metal contact between moving parts upon starting up the engine. The pour point defined first this property of motor oil, as defined by ASTM D97 as "... an index of the lowest temperature of its utility ..." for a given application,^[8] but the "cold cranking simulator" (CCS, see ASTM D5293-08) and "Mini-Rotary Viscometer" (MRV, see ASTM D3829-02(2007), ASTM D4684-08) are today the properties required in motor oil specs and define the SAE classifications.

[Woodchukka]

I'm no professional in the industry, so I can only speak as one of the 'people on the internet' and how I see it. The pour point of 10w60 is -42c and 0w40 is -54c. So temperatures up at 0c and warmer that we see, both oils will pump up pressure no problems. For that initial 1 or 2 seconds the lighter grade oil may pump up quicker, but we are most likely talking less than a second difference. Once you have pressure both oils will commence providing protection. The heavier oil then provides better film strength / protection once the engine starts to warm up, which is a lot longer period than the initial startup period.

Possibly the lighter oil may be better if you never drive more than 5km. But the big downside to it, if you/another driver of your car does ever decided to become boy racer, and drop the hammer from the lights then 1 occurrence of the film breaking down and allowing metal to metal will do a lot more damage than the advantage of the lighter oil on cold mornings.

I am running a Penrite HPR 10 (10W50) at the moment and in my last log at a coolant temperature of 23 DegC at first start in the morning I had 4.5 psi in fraction over 1 second and 53 psi of oil pressure in 1.8 seconds. I have not logged EOP in winter yet so I don't have figures on a really cold day as yet.

[Ratsmow]

Great real world info there chukka, be looking forward to the cold winter data. Be interesting to see the difference.

[Blown 454 AWD]

Out of curiosity has mainlube tested the Penrite 10 Tenths yet?

Lets address this one.

Lubricants that Forums use wouldn't be 0.5% of our turnover,

Therefore Forums are a bit of a charity to Mainlube,

I don't get paid for the amount of time I spend here, it's not cost efficient.



Apart form that, what test do you think should / could be done here that would help?

There are so many variables here it turns into many different tests, all quite expensive.

The only company in the world that are all over this is Lubrizol,

they make most of the additives in the world and spend enormous amounts of $$$ on testing.

They can run an engine for 6 months testing a new additive, so these are the dudes that test engine life etc.

Rest of us have to suck and see at the end of the day,

Filtergram would be next in line to what Lubrizol does in analysis cause it's real time view of what's happening.

Cheers

Steve

[Drizt]

Sure, no problems with that.

I assume you have done some particular tests for you to recommend edge 10w-60. Just wondering if you have done the same tests with 10 tenths 5w-60.

[bozodos]

Unfortunately for us, it's not in Steve's interests to test other brands of oil. We're lucky he's recommended anything other than the Mainlube!

[XUV]

looks like Nulon have done some testing
http://www.lessfriction.com.au/ scroll down on page to see different grades of oil
the 10w-60 link http://www.lessfriction.com.au/results/10W60/

[Ratsmow]

I think most people reading these oil threads probably have trouble getting there head around the difference in spec between what mainlube recommends and factory spec. I use what Steve recommends but I definitely noticed extra drag on the motor and less mpg than 10w 50 I was using. I'm hoping once i do more miles on the 10w60 the motor will free up and spin up as quick as it did previously. My engines stock with a mafless tune and exhaust by the way, pretty much the minimum Steve would recommend using a 10w60 in.

Personally I'd like to see the 0 degree start up test, to see how long a couple of different oils respond, like chukka posted previously.

[matthewfnorbert]

tests appear to be based on 'boundary lubrication' mode (metal to metal), of course we don't run in that mode (and avoid it at all costs). oil cleanliness to ISO std and WDA is the only way to compare oil performance in real world for our use.

of course nearly EVERY oil thread on this board is highly subjective and mostly irrelevant... as we don't keep our motors for say 1.5 million kms/30,000 or operating hours to see the engine life benefit of one quality oil over another quality oil both fit for purpose. then of course the most significant filter in a car to extend engine life AND keep oil clean of hard particle ingress and resultant wear debris is ignored or quality reduced for better air flow, the air filter! 0.02c

looks like Nulon have done some testing
http://www.lessfriction.com.au/ scroll down on page to see different grades of oil
the 10w-60 link http://www.lessfriction.com.au/results/10W60/

[Ratsmow]

The nulon thing looks good but it would be nice to know what the other oils are.

[QldKev]

Cool advert, but that is all I see. They sent every brand of oil for testing, but only show a limited set in the results. Why, maybe they left out the results for all the ones that beat them.