Surprising Power From VE SIDI

[gmh308]

What I find most surprising is the torque figure on the dyno sheet. Holden spec sheet says 290 nm at the engine for the SIDI, but this dyno manages to measure an average of around 650 nm at the wheels.
As dynos can only measure torque, and derive HP/KW from that via a formula, surely that throws some doubt on the dyno KW figures. The torque figure shown is simply impossible for this engine to produce without at least 1 BAR of boost without any losses.

Where is the flaw in my thinking?

gh

Well apart from Wonky's comment re ".....ignore the torque.....", unless the dyno was measuring torque at 1:1 gear ratio over all and roller rpm = engine rpm, it will be different unless a correction is applied.

For example 200Nm at flywheel, trans + diff multiplication 4:1 = 800Nm.

As power is derived from torque and rpm, the roller torque is higher, but the rpm is lower. So if engine was at 6000rpm, 4:1 ratio overall = 1500rpm wheel, assume roller diameter = wheel diameter, roller rpm = 1500 too.

(Nm x rpm) / 9550 = kw.

Simple example. Not meant to be accurate.

[Wonky]

I'm far from an expert on dynos but judging by the rwkw figure for the VZ SS A4 (5.7) which has given about the right reading I'd say whoever runs the dyno has got it somehow set up so that even though the torque figures are crap the power figures are about right...............

[Tecca]

That's amazing power for the VE V6.

[planetdavo]

Pity the 3.0 SIDI isn't as impressive. An absolute dog to drive.

Really! A dog you say...
Perhaps when you compare it to a 6.0 V8 you can come to this conclusion, but when compared to the market Holden is aiming it at, they get along surprisingly well. The 6 speed auto gives it plenty of gears to make use of what it has, which would be only a p!ssant less torque than a 3.8 Ecotec used up to VY, and more power than even the supercharged version had...

[Kuzman89]

Wonky, thats impressive results! Just a tune on its own would make it close to 200rwkw I reckon, considering its downtuned. Very excited to see any extra work on this. Only thing that sucks about the SIDI is it would suck for boost. Also, anyone confirm if the 3.6l has exhaust ports or manifolds? I know the 3.0l has two exhaust ports, one either side.

[planetdavo]

Wonky, thats impressive results! Just a tune on its own would make it close to 200rwkw I reckon, considering its downtuned. Very excited to see any extra work on this. Only thing that sucks about the SIDI is it would suck for boost. Also, anyone confirm if the 3.6l has exhaust ports or manifolds? I know the 3.0l has two exhaust ports, one either side.

3.6 version uses normal manifolds.

[BOOGER]

Really! A dog you say...
Perhaps when you compare it to a 6.0 V8 you can come to this conclusion, but when compared to the market Holden is aiming it at, they get along surprisingly well. The 6 speed auto gives it plenty of gears to make use of what it has, which would be only a p!ssant less torque than a 3.8 Ecotec used up to VY, and more power than even the supercharged version had...

Yes a dog I say.

We have 4 of them at work as well as 3.6 VE's. It hunts for gears and revs its tits off for little gain. The holden spin doctors such as yourself may try and say it produces more power and torque but in fact it takes more revs to achieve only slightly more power and makes much less torque with more revs also.

What exactly is the market it's aimed at?

The 6 speed would have been nice in the 3.6 Omega, pitty Holden couldn't have thought of that. On a positive note though I do like the twin exit exhaust. Good work Doc, keep the spin going

[planetdavo]

You can say whatever turns you on booger, but the fact remains they get along quite well for a 3.0 V6. Most people are saying they didn't expect what they found once they have driven them, and I'm talking real world people, not hard driving "enthusiusts"...
The market they are aimed at has been so well covered I'm not going into it all again. You can do a search.

[sjhugh]

You can say whatever turns you on booger, but the fact remains they get along quite well for a 3.0 V6. Most people are saying they didn't expect what they found once they have driven them, and I'm talking real world people, not hard driving "enthusiusts"...
The market they are aimed at has been so well covered I'm not going into it all again. You can do a search.

I guess you mean the Fleet Market as they’re not doing well in private sales.

[GODSMACK]

but the fact remains they get along quite well for a 3.0 V6. Most people are saying they didn't expect what they found once they have driven them

And who might these 'people' be? No doubt a figment of your imagination, or are you the CEO of Holdens Survey Dept??

Ive driven the new 3.0 & 3.6 SIDI, and was quite impressed with the 3.6L, but the 3.0L is a piece of shit. I drove both for a good 45 minutes each, both around town and on a major 100km/h highway!!

Im mates with one of the guys at the local Holden dealership, he stated that the 3.0L is a POS as well. He always recommends a couple extra $$$ for the 3.6L to potential buyers.

But ur right, the 3.0L does get along well, compared to a push bike...

Crap on about the 3.0L all you like, we expect nothing less from you.. ITS A DOG, nothing less!!

[GODSMACK]

I guess you mean the Fleet Market as they’re not doing well in private sales.

Not even mate, guy i mentioned above said fleet sales have dropped by no less than 30% since their release, lost most of his business to the FG and Camry, as well as some smaller cars such as the Corolla's and i30's.

[andyman]

haha see these 3 things in that statement

1. "Im mates with one of the guys at the local Holden dealership",
2. "he stated that the 3.0L is a POS as well".
3. "He always recommends a couple extra $$$ for the 3.6L to potential buyers. "

thats just typical salesman technique there

[GODSMACK]

haha see these 3 things in that statement




thats just typical salesman technique there

LOL, just picked up on it myself... Having said that, his referrals to the 3.6 over the 3.0L are few and far between. Anyone who took both for a drive could notice the difference quite easily..

Cheers

[Kuzman89]

well of course the 3.6l is going to be better, for performance, the 3.0l never claimed to have better performance. It's meant to be better on fuel really, which is it from all reports.

However, the 3.6l port injected motor with the 6 speed would probably be much better on fuel then the 3.0l. Less power, but better torque.

[planetdavo]

LOL, just picked up on it myself... Having said that, his referrals to the 3.6 over the 3.0L are few and far between. Anyone who took both for a drive could notice the difference quite easily..

Cheers

of course you can, but compare 3.0 to a Camry, and it all starts to make a lot more sense. There's your clue.