Filling 6L80E

[Tre-Cool]

Hymey has tuned gaz's auto. remember his has recieved hardware modifications so it's likely to shift harder than a stock gearbox with increased line pressure.

I can tell you that running a similar tune in my auto with a stall vs my dad's stock motor with the same settings, the stock stall'd gearbox shifts much harder.

Im not too sure if having the maf enabled also seems make them shift harder but it's definetly not out the question.

[HYMEY]

silver VH that is very possible, but i advise against it with high stall convertor as WOT acceleration is not the only issue what seams to hurt them is hitting the throttle or even partly squeezing throttle on anyone knows with a cammed car diff gears and stall that they will spin the tyres entering power enrichment, this makes them slip as at this stage line pressure is still building and it should be already up there, even with increased line pressure it shifts normal down low due to convertor slippage, stock convertor different story. Hi stalls multiply torque very rapidly and put even more strain on the box, before you attempt to expect any reliability from any automatic transmission it requires oil and adequate line pressure to do the job. I can see the A6 has copped a bad rap, but I spoke with Lionel Durrie a mate of gaz's whilst discussing the auto issues and yrs ago the C4 Ford transmission was basically a heap of junk, it is small in size and put half decent hp in front of it and it would self destruct. The only way to make them live was to run very high line pressure, around 300 psi...Then they turn into a reliable race box and have proven themselves as a very tough and light reliable box with huge popularity. Its monkey see monkey do, once one bloke works it out everyone copies only those that don't are non believers. You dont want any variation of pressure regulation in a race box, the car hits so hard off a 2 step or transbrake even low rpm hits will fry a box with an efficient torque multiplier in front of it. Even pre stage dry launchs you want your line pressure up there and stable, no variation, it simply cant build pressure fast enough to cope. I really believe this is a big killer of the A4s too, I see so many boxes go back to a builder with the builder copping the fault and bill. I have cars with 100 hp more and the oil never smells burnt. Its important for a tuner to think outside the square and ask an experienced box builder how much line pressure it requires to survive.

Remember if you increase your 6L80E's line pressure it will use up even more oil from the pan and can sometimes make the slippage worse.

Atomic I have never logged line pressure and in Garry's car you can't. Commanded vs actual is two different things. It would mostly be air, any hard accelerating VE A6 will aerate the oil and suck some air at the track this is why they refuse to shift. We have the line pressure up there but its not excessively high. I run A4s with less line pressure and they cope very well.

[SilverVH]

silver VH that is very possible, but i advise against it with high stall convertor as WOT acceleration is not the only issue what seams to hurt them is hitting the throttle or even partly squeezing throttle on anyone knows with a cammed car diff gears and stall that they will spin the tyres entering power enrichment, this makes them slip as at this stage line pressure is still building and it should be already up there, even with increased line pressure it shifts normal down low due to convertor slippage, stock convertor different story. Hi stalls multiply torque very rapidly and put even more strain on the box, before you attempt to expect any reliability from any automatic transmission it requires oil and adequate line pressure to do the job. I can see the A6 has copped a bad rap, but I spoke with Lionel Durrie a mate of gaz's whilst discussing the auto issues and yrs ago the C4 Ford transmission was basically a heap of junk, it is small in size and put half decent hp in front of it and it would self destruct. The only way to make them live was to run very high line pressure, around 300 psi...Then they turn into a reliable race box and have proven themselves as a very tough and light reliable box with huge popularity. Its monkey see monkey do, once one bloke works it out everyone copies only those that don't are non believers. You dont want any variation of pressure regulation in a race box, the car hits so hard off a 2 step or transbrake even low rpm hits will fry a box with an efficient torque multiplier in front of it. Even pre stage dry launchs you want your line pressure up there and stable, no variation, it simply cant build pressure fast enough to cope. I really believe this is a big killer of the A4s too, I see so many boxes go back to a builder with the builder copping the fault and bill. I have cars with 100 hp more and the oil never smells burnt. Its important for a tuner to think outside the square and ask an experienced box builder how much line pressure it requires to survive.

Remember if you increase your 6L80E's line pressure it will use up even more oil from the pan and can sometimes make the slippage worse.

Atomic I have never logged line pressure and in Garry's car you can't. Commanded vs actual is two different things. It would mostly be air, any hard accelerating VE A6 will aerate the oil and suck some air at the track this is why they refuse to shift. We have the line pressure up there but its not excessively high. I run A4s with less line pressure and they cope very well.

Very imformative post, thanks for that.

Engine wise, I've done all I want to do for now so I've been reading and researching the 6L80e. I am slowy finding out what makes them tick and their pitfalls, where people have gone wrong and what they have done to rectify problems etc.

Unfortunately I am still new to the world of EFI tuning. All my previous experience has been with carburetter's and vacuum/mechanical shifting auto's. It has only been in the past 6 months that I have had a chance to begin learning and tuning EFI practically (and only engines so far). Thankfully the principles are all the same regardless if it is mechanical or electronic control.

In regards to your tuning of the 6L80e, have you disabled torque management or decreased the percentage, or is it left as is?

The more I research, the more I've been considering to tune it myself.

[Tre-Cool]

I still run full torque management on wot shifts, but the amount of timing it pulls can be changed in the engine ecu via the minimum final timing table (B5157) in efilive.

There is an idea floating around that having no torque management on might feel like a quick shift due to the agressive nature of the shift, but having some timing pulled on the shift via torque management actually completes the shift faster and possibly gives the clutches a bit more longevity.

similar scenario to a timing cut on manuals, so it makes sense.

An example of a 2nd gear wot into 3rd, 4th, 5th. I have a circle'd stage 3 converter and run the convertor locked in 3rd,4th,5th.



whats missing off the above screen shot is the fact the trans commands the on-coming shift to happen long before the shift actually happens.

[Wonky]

I used 2 VE pans, about $130 each at your local GM parts outlet, I priced a Corvette one before I made mine... (still would have to baffle it too) $560 plus freight from the US.

What's the part no on them please Gaz? I emailed my parts guy for a price and he replied part #24239528 with list price of only $88 + GST.

Gaz2

[Roonstain]

What's the part no on them please Gaz? I emailed my parts guy for a price and he replied part #24239528 with list price of only $88 + GST.

Gaz2

Even better Wonks!!!!


Definitely keen for this if someone starts making a few

[gaz05]

What's the part no on them please Gaz? I emailed my parts guy for a price and he replied part #24239528 with list price of only $88 + GST.

Gaz2

Thats the part number Wonky.. also a good price too.

[Wonky]

Good stuff thanks - can get even cheaper in quantities of 10 or more. Your dealer's price seems excessive?

[gaz05]

Good stuff thanks - can get even cheaper in quantities of 10 or more. Your dealer's price seems excessive?

I think that was with a gasket Wonks, I didnt change the gasket on mine, its a thick rubber/ neoprene style, very good quality. PM sent.

[gaz05]

Even better Wonks!!!!


Definitely keen for this if someone starts making a few

I will be doing 5 as soon as I can get the pans, certainly a lot of interest but its a must if your going to race it, they just wont work with no oil. Cost me a fair bit of time and money to get it down the strip, but all worth it...not much wrong with the box, the shallow pan that GM designed for the VE is the problem.. its amazing how we overlook the basics sometime.

[SilverVH]

Looking forward to the progress gaz. Be sure to keep us all updated

[duke5700]

Someone needs to dry sump the box....

[SilverVH]

Also I feel this is cheap insurance regardless if anyone races their car down the strip or not. Any form of spirited driving is going to cause inertia which in turn will cavitate the oil and starve the pump, particularly with the VE pan design.

Far cheaper than a gearbox replacement by any means!

[etrocket]

I will be doing 5 as soon as I can get the pans, certainly a lot of interest but its a must if your going to race it, they just wont work with no oil. Cost me a fair bit of time and money to get it down the strip, but all worth it...not much wrong with the box, the shallow pan that GM designed for the VE is the problem.. its amazing how we overlook the basics sometime.

will this include all the other bits as well to drop the filter down

[gaz05]

will this include all the other bits as well to drop the filter down

Yes, will supply the pan and the tube extension and the little feet to be riveted to the top of the filter, you can reuse the filter and gasket if you wish, I used a new filter and reused the gasket.