Does HSV understand its Market?

[nailit]

There has been a discussion over lunch about HSV and where they are going at the moment.

It appears that there is in excess of 1000 new HSV's in Dealerships and on there way to dealers at the moment which is a real problem for the brand. . . . Some dealers are carrying 6 months stock and some less - but its a problem. . . and why is it so!

We have been of the opinion that HSV has been slowly losing momentum over the last couple of years and this appears to be somewhat true.

The exclusivity of the Brand has diminished by the sheer numbers that keep getting pumped out of Clayton and the resale values are taking a hiding as Dealers shy away from wanting to trade them. . . they do trade them, but at a lower price than the market expects . . . and therefore some HSV repeat customers are diminishing. . . and thats a concern.

One of the worst kept secrets at this time is the pending arrival of a limited edition S/C LSA E3 (25th Anniversary) Special Edition that will debut at the Sydney Motor Show next October . . . but by the time HSV start deliveries the VE will be approaching Runout and a new 5.5l Production HSV with a factory charger will be the standard diet of Horsepower so I dont see the LSA limited Edition helping the brand too much. . . although it will be a sellout.

So do they understand their Market. . . or should I say - Markets - where are they positioning themselves in the market going forward!!!

Their biggest market (per capita) is WA and that market is the biggest in Australia for Modded HSV's . . so there is a message there to HSV that customers want more!!

Do they want to be in the AMG Market. . . yes. . . but the car isnt good enough!

The New VF will be a nice car . . . but Evolutionary rather that Revolutionary as the Chassis and Cabin/Doors remain the same . . . it will have new front guards and rear quarters etc and some of the sheetmetal will be aluminuim. . . but the overall quality will be down on the rest of the Industry. . . . so what will HSV do to keep momentum. . . who knows.

HSV need to look at their potential markets and market segments and fulfil those segment needs . . . and we think only Value and Power will get them through!!

[Benton]

well said, you "nailed it" pardon the pun.

[fishla]

IMO the current VE shape is done and dusted and there will be many punters waiting for the new shape/engine variants etc.

Where do HSV draw the limit though? They offer a factory car with 325kw with an oversized whale on top of it. So when they release a 400kw car. Expect it to weigh in at 2.5 tonne or thereabouts.

Maybe there is a gentleman's agreement between local manufactureres and the gov to keep a lid of 'factory performance cars' who knows!?!

I do know FPV's new GT/GTP are HSV killers.
Only brand loyalness is keeping someone like myself out of one of those.

[Xjas]

Times are tighter than they have been previously for many people also, those that would have considered a HSV in the past may now be settling for a lesser car like an SS or holding onto their current HSV for longer.

[Alex81]

I was looking at buying a E3 GTS and no one really wants to deal, i am a cash buyer but want particular options. So i have instead ordered an E3 Clubby with all the option i wanted for 78K drive way and this will be my 5 new HSV and i ended up at the dealer i brought 2 of my other cars off as they are happy to deal and make a sale. I seems the dealers really lack interest in selling these cars.

[Plenty]

Where do HSV draw the limit though? They offer a factory car with 325kw with an oversized whale on top of it. So when they release a 400kw car. Expect it to weigh in at 2.5 tonne or thereabouts.

Why would the car weigh any more than the current GTS? It's merely an engine swap with a supercharger.

I do know FPV's new GT/GTP are HSV killers.
Only brand loyalness is keeping someone like myself out of one of those.

Sorry but HSV killers in what respect? They're faster in a straight line? Apart from the superior RWKW what other area does an FPV outshine an HSV?

We take a very narrow minded approach to performance cars on here (how many RWKW does it have/or can we get out of it?), as HSV sells more than 2:1 to FPV, clearly they are still the killers in the market and at the end of the day is all that matters.

[Pickles]

Don't own an HSV at the moment.
However, I think HSV understand the market very well......but do they really have to?.....because IMHO, they don't really have any worthwhile competition.
HSV might think they're in the M.B., Audi, BMW etc etc market......and to a limited degree, a very limited degree, they may be.....but IMHO, the majority of sales do not come from that market......it comes from the likes of you & me, whether HSV admits that, or not.
So, "understand the market".....?......I think HSV just are doing all that they can, to sell their product. FPV have now got a good engine, but it ain't good enough to poise a serious problem to HSV.....there's a lot more to the product than the engine.
Cheers, Pickles.

[nailit]

I think HSV understand the market very well......but do they really have to?.....because IMHO, they don't really have any worthwhile competition.

Cheers, Pickles.

There Competition is us . . the PUNTER . . . they are competing for our business . . . now lets keep that comment in context

There is no way my old man will buy an FPV . . . thats not the question. . . he has bought 27 new HSV's over the years inc 6 VE's . . . and currently Drives a W427, E3 Senator and 20th Maloo amongst other stuff as his daily. . . . we all drive them but we are concerned that with over 1000 Cars on Grass that the Brand will become undervalued and that is not ideal for the punter or the Brand.

As PLENTY says, HSV are the killers in the market. . . and he is right if WA is taken into the equasion. . . and as you are from WA Plenty, I/we fully understand the HSV Momentum in that State - however the old man was in Perth Last weekend and did the rounds - Shacks, Gardners & City . . . they are well stocked and Shacks are now starting to "Tear them up" with huge discounts advertised on all HSV's in their showroom!

So by HSV continuing to RAM cars into the dealer floorplans. . . . are they understanding the Market. . . Hmmm!! . . . the repercussions are value. . . a problem we all have

[ssv402]

Why would the car weigh any more than the current GTS? It's merely an engine swap with a supercharger.



Sorry but HSV killers in what respect? They're faster in a straight line? Apart from the superior RWKW what other area does an FPV outshine an HSV?

We take a very narrow minded approach to performance cars on here (how many RWKW does it have/or can we get out of it?), as HSV sells more than 2:1 to FPV, clearly they are still the killers in the market and at the end of the day is all that matters.

Your comment was very ignorant to what the post you were referring to meant. Hsv do have the better overall package, but fpv really have their driveline a step above hsv.

I am sure alot of people would think "In what area would an hsv outshine an fpv", its a matter of non narrow minded thinking mate.

Think outside the box, they both have their good points and that is what creates the followers for each product. One side like the driveline the car is attached to, not that the fords are that bad, they are quite decent, yet one side like the car the driveline is attached to in this case.

[fishla]

Why would the car weigh any more than the current GTS? It's merely an engine swap with a supercharger.

I wasn't referring to the one off VE model they will release with an LSA.
That car will be the exception, not to mention rediculously overpriced.

That's the one the punters want....but they wanted it last year!


The VF is sure to have more KW claim and more weight.
Every year the cars get fatter and fatter.

Sorry but HSV killers in what respect? They're faster in a straight line? Apart from the superior RWKW what other area does an FPV outshine an HSV?

We take a very narrow minded approach to performance cars on here (how many RWKW does it have/or can we get out of it?), as HSV sells more than 2:1 to FPV, clearly they are still the killers in the market and at the end of the day is all that matters.

Yep, faster........ at the end of the day, i would prefer something that is still acceptable in the interior and handling department and far superior in the engine/driveline department. The other area is the auto ZF gearbox (if you wanted an auto). Ford got it right there!

After driving the new GT-P it is clear to ME that Holden/HSV have some work cut out for them.

I wouldn't buy either of them though

In the meantime for unsatisfied HSV owners, there is always the option of aftermarket modifications and tuning

www.njclsx.com

Cheers
Fish

[Plenty]

Why would the car weigh any more than the current GTS? It's merely an engine swap with a supercharger.

I wasn't referring to the one off VE model they will release with an LSA.
That car will be the exception, not to mention rediculously overpriced.

That's the one the punters want....but they wanted it last year!


The VF is sure to have more KW claim and more weight.
Every year the cars get fatter and fatter.

Yep, faster........ at the end of the day, i would prefer something that is still acceptable in the interior and handling department and far superior in the engine/driveline department. The other area is the auto ZF gearbox (if you wanted an auto). Ford got it right there!

After driving the new GT-P it is clear to ME that Holden/HSV have some work cut out for them.

I wouldn't buy either of them though

In the meantime for unsatisfied HSV owners, there is always the option of aftermarket modifications and tuning

www.njclsx.com

Cheers
Fish

If what they are suggesting is true than the VF should have a significant reduction in weight ( i hope so).

I had quite a substantial drive in a new GT myself, whilst the drivetrain is simply world class, the rest of the car left me thinking i was driving a Ford G6.
This i where the HSV has it in spades, once you get over the power hit of the s/charged 5.0l the rest of the car is simply a let down. IMO

[nailit]

[quote=Plenty;1977983]

Why would the car weigh any more than the current GTS? It's merely an engine swap with a supercharger.

If what they are suggesting is true than the VF should have a significant reduction in weight ( i hope so).

Expect weight savings between 30 & 60kg . . . depending on the Model . . . and depending whether GM sign off on all the alloy suspension componants that are scheduled for VF. . . . Alloy panels have been signed off - inc the roof

[Aus8]

Does anyone else think the look of E2 & 3 is not quite as good as it could be? They nailed it with the E1 but the E2 and 3 just doesn't look right to me with all the tacked on bits and busyness everywhere. I hear that said a fair bit also so im not on my own. Looks play a huge part in a car purchase for this amount of coin. Interested to hear comments.

[Plenty]

Does anyone else think the look of E2 & 3 is not quite as good as it could be? They nailed it with the E1 but the E2 and 3 just doesn't look right to me with all the tacked on bits and busyness everywhere. I hear that said a fair bit also so im not on my own. Looks play a huge part in a car purchase for this amount of coin. Interested to hear comments.

E1 is def the looker of the lot but the E2/3 are growing on me. I was at my local dealer the other day, had one of the SV Black Editions they are disgusting, bits if black plastic stuck on everywhere. Really does looks like it was all an afterthought to move cars!

[Vulture]

[quote=nailit;1977987][quote=Plenty;1977983]

Expect weight savings between 30 & 60kg . . . depending on the Model . . . and depending whether GM sign off on all the alloy suspension componants that are scheduled for VF. . . . Alloy panels have been signed off - inc the roof

I was thinking about this issue today while driving the Senator. It's a great car but I wonder how good it could be if it was lighter. 30-60kg is going to do very little for handling unless it is going to reduce unsprung weight via suspension components etc. The HSVs really need 100-200kg taken out of them at least! How that can be done in an affordable manner I do not know.