Does HSV understand its Market?

[SilverVH]

Wait til the strut tops start separating from the body and causing headache camber and the VEs might just get a strut brace thrown in

While we're on the issue of build quality, maybe HSV should take take more time in theirs. When you buy a $70,000 odd car, the last thing you should have to put up with are things like squeaks and rattles. Not only that, but to also be at the mercy of the dealership in trying to rectify issues where you pretty much have to prove faults (intermittant particularly) before they will get evaulated.

Sure that is a separate issue altogether, but it does contribute to the whole HSV buying experience. That isn't to say roll out the red carpet for HSV buyers, but rather for HSV to understand that people who buy HSV's are buying a car for more than just a mode of transport. It isn't acceptable for a premium priced vehicle to suffer from the same flaws as the base model when they can be rectified prior to delivery (but choose not to.) Otherwise you may aswell just buy the base model to begin with?

The quality of components also play a part (don't get me started on the quality of leather!), but when the top of the range Holden are using better quality parts than the HSV, that to me is kind of saying something. For parts to start failing after 3 years reflects badly on the build quality and to me, shows that HSV are targeting short term ownership buyers who won't be affected by these kind of faults showing up within the first couple of years. Maybe its unfair to criticise HSV when it may be a more widespread problem with car manufacturers in general (afterall the spare parts market generates more income stream than car manufacturing market does.) but do HSV really understand their heritige and what they have stood for when first opening up?

I've owned a fair few HSV's and I could categoricially say, that the later models have a more mass produced feel to it rather than the hand built feeling that a small volume manufacturer should be aiming for. If you could put one model of every HSV series side by side, all brand new I think you will notice that the quality and uniqueness begins to detract. Personally with my experience, the VX was the series for me where it started going downhill. So much so that it detracted me from even considering a VY or VZ. And I assure you, before buying my current HSV I had a good look at several other brands first, something which I never did prior.

[nailit]

While we're on the issue of build quality, maybe HSV should take take more time in theirs. When you buy a $70,000 odd car, the last thing you should have to put up with are things like squeaks and rattles. Not only that, but to also be at the mercy of the dealership in trying to rectify issues where you pretty much have to prove faults (intermittant particularly) before they will get evaulated.

Sure that is a separate issue altogether, but it does contribute to the whole HSV buying experience. That isn't to say roll out the red carpet for HSV buyers, but rather for HSV to understand that people who buy HSV's are buying a car for more than just a mode of transport. It isn't acceptable for a premium priced vehicle to suffer from the same flaws as the base model when they can be rectified prior to delivery (but choose not to.) Otherwise you may aswell just buy the base model to begin with?

The quality of components also play a part (don't get me started on the quality of leather!), but when the top of the range Holden are using better quality parts than the HSV, that to me is kind of saying something. For parts to start failing after 3 years reflects badly on the build quality and to me, shows that HSV are targeting short term ownership buyers who won't be affected by these kind of faults showing up within the first couple of years. Maybe its unfair to criticise HSV when it may be a more widespread problem with car manufacturers in general (afterall the spare parts market generates more income stream than car manufacturing market does.) but do HSV really understand their heritige and what they have stood for when first opening up?

I've owned a fair few HSV's and I could categoricially say, that the later models have a more mass produced feel to it rather than the hand built feeling that a small volume manufacturer should be aiming for. If you could put one model of every HSV series side by side, all brand new I think you will notice that the quality and uniqueness begins to detract. Personally with my experience, the VX was the series for me where it started going downhill. So much so that it detracted me from even considering a VY or VZ. And I assure you, before buying my current HSV I had a good look at several other brands first, something which I never did prior.

Well said . . . quality of Seat Trim both in materials and stiching/assembly quality went out the window when HSV changed fro Ashlors in Melb to Lear in Adealide and has slowly gone futher down the drain since. . . I personally have a big problen with our W427 Seats and believe that HSV should have stepped right up to the plate when the did that car . . . but in the end its rubbish. . . .and makes you think about other brands . . . shit. . . the seats in a $45k BMW 118D that I looked at this morning were awesome . . . . and that thing was over a 110 grand cheaper!!! . . . so thats proof that certain things can be FAR better without $$$ being the issue!!!

[1R8_HSV]

I would buy a special edition E4, where the glove box closes first time and the top of the handbrake doesn't come off.

[Wonky]

I would buy a special edition E4, where the glove box closes first time and the top of the handbrake doesn't come off.

Optional extras these days..........

[planetdavo]

This still going?
Sorry was off having a life for a couple of days, so couldn't add my doses of reality, but a couple of observations shine bright. Seriously, some of the "expectations" show little business knowledge from a few people.
The car is an improved VE Commodore. Expectations of improved build quality of the core vehicle are NOT something HSV have any control over. Voice your concerns to Holden, not HSV.
In regards to my comments that certain people want serious ego stroking when buying a HSV, some people got a bit confused over one point. It is the DEALERSHIP experience that shouldn't matter whether it's a 20K Corolla or an 80K HSV. But seriously, if some buyers NEED to have things "included" (that they have to pay for anyway! ) to feel important in life then maybe they need to have a look at their lives in general. A reliable new car delivered professionally by the dealer "should" be a given, but all this free sh!t talk as being compulsary...ffs.
HSV are a mainstream niche manufacturer. Some of you need to stop behaving like the HSV world revolves around you, and start realising that there are far more potential buyers out there than yourself, many of which have far different priorities in their new car than yourself!
And finally, "rare" HSV's. There haven't been that many truly special exclusive models over the last 23 years. The GFC killed off the W427, a model that was meant to continue for longer than it did. Yes, GTS has been made more mainstream, but you also get a sh!tload more good stuff for less money now than a 2001 VX GTS cost. What price do you put on "exclusivity"??? Me thinks the selfish types are often the instigators of this kind of thinking, wanting to pay the same X dollars, but have 75% less of them on the road as well!
You can't have your cake and eat it too on this subject...

[1R8_HSV]

The car is an improved VE Commodore. Expectations of improved build quality of the core vehicle are NOT something HSV have any control over. Voice your concerns to Holden, not HSV.

I think we all know this mate, was just having a bit of a giggle.

[planetdavo]

I think we all know this mate, was just having a bit of a giggle.

Yeah I know. Was aimed at others who were far more serious with some of their comments.
Seriously, how can HSV control core vehicle squeaks and rattles?
When the basic vehicle is a fleet special Omega (formally Executive) in the 30-40K range, HSV can't suddenly re-engineer the vehicle into a 60K "base" vehicle with higher core "quality"...
Commodore is a mainstream product built down to a price range it exists in, and HSV build cars off the same base, so what do people expect the vehicle to be like?
Full seam welded shell perhaps sir?

[AMADR8]

Yeah I know. Was aimed at others who were far more serious with some of their comments.
Seriously, how can HSV control core vehicle squeaks and rattles?
When the basic vehicle is a fleet special Omega (formally Executive) in the 30-40K range, HSV can't suddenly re-engineer the vehicle into a 60K "base" vehicle with higher core "quality"...
Commodore is a mainstream product built down to a price range it exists in, and HSV build cars off the same base, so what do people expect the vehicle to be like?
Full seam welded shell perhaps sir?

Yes its based on a 30k car, but hsv do chage the suspension which has a lot of rattles in it they do use diffs that farkin whine that the kents havnt not been able to solve the problem with for the last 4 farkin months in my case, so yes i for one do think for over 70k it shouldnt make some of the noises that my 40k ssv never had

[Martin_D]

The car is an improved VE Commodore. Expectations of improved build quality of the core vehicle are NOT something HSV have any control over. Voice your concerns to Holden, not HSV.

Well charge for improvements only, maybe $10K over the SS price for some plastic bumpers, bolt on brakes and cheesy lights and its good value.
If they charge the kind of money that re-engineering and fixing things involves the folks will expect it....as this thread shows
Paying through the nose if its not up to the cut isnt a birthfact of being an Aussie - or at least it shouldnt be
At $100K fully loaded the VE GTS SHOULD be judged in the light of the world market, not the Jimmy Barnes Elizabeth dream.

[steve_t]

I thought there was a bit of QC involved with HSV in regards to the Holdens they choose to 'enhance'. Or is this not correct?

[tuckerbag]

HSV could try a better spring/damper combo in the rear.
Every VE I drive is extremely underdamped and tends to pogo around at the rear during normal driving. Drive slowly over a spoon drain and feel for yourself. Its quite unnerving...

Hooray, finally someone has said it. We have an e2 clubsport with the optional "sport" suspension and on average australian roads it is fxxxg shocking. On a recent trip to Bunderberg it crashed and banged and skipped about like it was on bungee straps. On mirror smooth roads it's brilliant but we don't have many of them. Maybe hsv should design em for australia. And what about the engine failures, the rattles and no glovebox light. Very dissapointing.

[Vulture]

Hooray, finally someone has said it. We have an e2 clubsport with the optional "sport" suspension and on average australian roads it is fxxxg shocking. On a recent trip to Bunderberg it crashed and banged and skipped about like it was on bungee straps. On mirror smooth roads it's brilliant but we don't have many of them. Maybe hsv should design em for australia. And what about the engine failures, the rattles and no glovebox light. Very dissapointing.

The rear does seem pretty soft. On the Senator it is reasonable when the MRC is in the firmer mode plus I also have slightly firmer (Walkinshaw) springs which helps. You can really notice it when going over a small speed hump, there are at least three residual bounces left in the rear after the first one. I wonder whether many buyers would find the setups too stiff on the test drive if they upgraded the damper and spring rates? No glove box light or centre console light is penny pinching in the extreme and cheapens the whole experience - as does extra cost for sunroof and, until recently, satnav - on a $90,000 car. They are even offering standard sunroofs with the SSV now...

If HSV are selling like hotcakes then this thread is just a whinge at their greed but I suspect that there is a growing resentment by those of us who have actually put our money where our mouths are (I've bought two new HSVs in the last 2 years). Perhaps they may have something to worry about? I know I'll be looking seriously at other options next time around. Now, I may not be representative of the typical HSV buyer - I don't know, but if I am, I think they could find themselves with problems in the years ahead. The value equation is starting to shift firmly back towards Holden with their most recent high quality offerings.

[rgmast]

Yeah I know. Was aimed at others who were far more serious with some of their comments.
Seriously, how can HSV control core vehicle squeaks and rattles?
When the basic vehicle is a fleet special Omega (formally Executive) in the 30-40K range, HSV can't suddenly re-engineer the vehicle into a 60K "base" vehicle with higher core "quality"...
Commodore is a mainstream product built down to a price range it exists in, and HSV build cars off the same base, so what do people expect the vehicle to be like?
Full seam welded shell perhaps sir?

So buying a 09 Maloo and having to get the sail plane replaced due to lifting(pretty sure they are not stock on an omega ute :b )
The Maloo had been out for 3 years was a known problem but still used the same design

[nailit]

Thats a classic "For Instance" . . . we have had 3 E Series Maloos and they ALL have the problem. . . a 2007 . . a 2009 & 2010 20th Anny . . .

So if I cant get a response from Holden cos it not their problem. . . and Davo reckons that HSV are not the issue . . . I guess I should just . . . Bark at the Moon

But seriously 4 years and they still havent nailed it!!!!

[steve_t]

So buying a 09 Maloo and having to get the sail plane replaced due to lifting(pretty sure they are not stock on an omega ute :b )
The Maloo had been out for 3 years was a known problem but still used the same design

I have the same issue. It's cos the top of the sail plane is flat where the roof of the ute is actually curved. Pretty rudimentary error really...