Does HSV understand its Market?

[planetdavo]

Fair dinkum, what a sh!tload of whingeing this thread has bought out. I seriously wonder if half the people on forums ever find any happiness in life...
Stuff fails on cars. Why do you think cars have warranty? Yes it's an inconvenience getting something sorted, but every brand has issues of some form or another, and all have recalls from time to time. If some of you hyperventilate over a poor fitting sailplane or a rattle in the suspension, I can only imagine how psychopathic you'd become if you owned one of the Audi's that suffered high oil consumption, or owned any luxury brand you care to name, and had to wait weeks for a part to come into the country to fix your 100K car...
As for HSV's priced only 10K above an SSV, they've tried this several times, and there's only limited appeal out there. Manta or GXP anyone. People don't really want them. They want the higher models. Still do, going by the sales.
Just because most people don't agree with some of your ideas in this thread doesn't make everyone else buying them wrong. I'd suggest a few people need to have a good hard look at themselves instead, and REALLY understand HSV, rather than blasting them for not building their wishlist fantasy...

[nailit]

Oh Dear . . . get over yourself Planetdavo . . .

There is no need to have a go at ppl that are having repeatative HSV quality issues . . . especially when the problem has been around for 4 or more years.

I am sure that you would be dissapointed if you had returned various E Series Maloos to your dealer ay least 5 times for the same issue to be rectified!!!

Now back to the topic . . . does HSV understand its market?. . . when you read thru this thread (which is still less than a week old so not every member would have seen it yet) you will see some dribble . . . . (inc yours) and some fair and just comment . . . and a lot of very good comment from people that actually own HSV's (or multiple HSV's) . . . and some that aspire to own HSV's . . .

This thread will die eventually or be closed!!! . . . but I am keen to see where EVERYONE's thoughts are about where HSV are taking the brand!!!

[planetdavo]

Yes there has been some good input, but there has also been the usual mountainous pile of tripe this subject ALWAYS brings up that stuffs it.
Polluted with dreamer wishlists, people that have no idea about what a business case is, slagoff's about what HSV must do to beat, well, themselves!!! , and just general negativity about EVERYTHING.

[Jag530G]

To Nailit and PD, A concern I have is are the dealers up to selling the more exclusive models? When HSV was selling the $95K Coupe GTS, Coupe 4 and Senator 300 it wasn't too uncommon to see 6 months after release a dealer offering big (i mean $10K+) discounts in The Age Saturday edition to shift them. These were models that were meant to be in limited supply but seeing those ads didn't exactly enthuse me regarding the resale values.

Maybe HSV sould look to starting a CPO (certified pre owned, simlar to the old Holden Q programme IIRC) programme and offering leases with g'teed buybacks (similar to the old Holden Smartbuy programme). When selling luxury (price tag) cars it is the monthly lease payment that matters and that is a consequence of resale as much as sale price. BMW does well with the 3 series because of this and it means regular repeat customers because they aren't getting burnt. I suspect the demise of GMAC hasn't helped here, a captive finance company helps with offering attractive lease deals. Look in Fin Review lately and there are ads for the Rolls Royce Ghost, $40K down, $10K a month for 36 months, $350K balloon, deal provided by BMW Finance (BMW own RR).

Personally if I were buying a new car in the Holden/HSV price range I would go for a Calais V or Caprice V and modify it rather than a Senator or Grange. I belong in the camp that doesn't care for bodykits would rather see the money spent on the interior or driveline. I appreciate that other people want a HSV to look dramatically different to a Holden.

[planetdavo]

High priced and limited appeal HSV's are often hard to shift. Once the initial lust bank has been filled the sales nearly dry up.
Might keep a few happy they released them, but the numbers have to add up. There is no HSV if they don't make money.
There could be some form of guaranteed buyback plan Jag, but often companies do these sorts of things when sales are sliding badly. Just another kind of enducement to advertise. Sometimes they work sales wise, sometimes they don't.

[nailit]

A certified Pre Owned thing would be good . . . BUT Crennan tried to get it going years ago and it wasn't supported by the Used Car Industry . . ie the wholesale Depts of HSV Dealers . . . he was and is a clever visionary man . . . that new how to make a quid

He sometimes got it wrong . . . then he dug his own way out of it by supporting the HSV dealer network . . . that thought process is now gone at Clayton with a total greed for delivering new cars being the only focus

So your idea and concept is great and unless something starts to happen to the used values of HSV's . . . their long term future is going to be challenging. . . .

Cos to "UNDERSTAND YOUR MARKET. . . you need to know your own limitations . . . READ. . . Values of used HSV's. . . Value of current HSV owners. . . and the value of new customers that they NEED to keep. . . and research will tell them that it is more difficult to reach all of those goals!!!

There are answers and solutions to all 3 of those points - but do HSV want to address these issues at this time? - by trimming volume and lifting their game!!!!

[rgmast]

Fair dinkum, what a sh!tload of whingeing this thread has bought out. I seriously wonder if half the people on forums ever find any happiness in life...
Stuff fails on cars. Why do you think cars have warranty? Yes it's an inconvenience getting something sorted, but every brand has issues of some form or another, and all have recalls from time to time. If some of you hyperventilate over a poor fitting sailplane or a rattle in the suspension, I can only imagine how psychopathic you'd become if you owned one of the Audi's that suffered high oil consumption, or owned any luxury brand you care to name, and had to wait weeks for a part to come into the country to fix your 100K car...
As for HSV's priced only 10K above an SSV, they've tried this several times, and there's only limited appeal out there. Manta or GXP anyone. People don't really want them. They want the higher models. Still do, going by the sales.
Just because most people don't agree with some of your ideas in this thread doesn't make everyone else buying them wrong. I'd suggest a few people need to have a good hard look at themselves instead, and REALLY understand HSV, rather than blasting them for not building their wishlist fantasy...

PD have you actually ever BOUGHT a brand new HSV?

It wasnt a whinge I was stating facts that u made about HSV taking on Holdens problems well the sail plane is solely a HSV issue and that was just 1.

PD wake up to yourself you are not 1 man on a mission to back up Holdens/HSV. Your spiel comes very tiring after a while

If you were CEO of Holdens or HSV I could understand were your dribble comes from but u are JUST an employee of a franchised holden dealer.

You being in the parts division would know how many warranty issues these cars have yet you still back them 100%

Some times its ok to agree with the majority u dont have to stand on your pedestal and think of us as commoners when u are more of a commoner than most of us

I think you should go back to the qantas thread cos im sure u know more about that. Are u starting to get the jist . If print and internet media didnt exist you would be a dumb shit cos you seriously have no idea about the real ins of any company and it shows every time u type on this blue screen.

ps when does ya F! team want u back for next season cos your sure in hell think ya know everything about that too.

A hint dont believe everything you read or see in the media

End rant

[planetdavo]

PD have you actually ever BOUGHT a brand new HSV?

It wasnt a whinge I was stating facts that u made about HSV taking on Holdens problems well the sail plane is solely a HSV issue and that was just 1.

PD wake up to yourself you are not 1 man on a mission to back up Holdens/HSV. Your spiel comes very tiring after a while

If you were CEO of Holdens or HSV I could understand were your dribble comes from but u are JUST an employee of a franchised holden dealer.

You being in the parts division would know how many warranty issues these cars have yet you still back them 100%

Some times its ok to agree with the majority u dont have to stand on your pedestal and think of us as commoners when u are more of a commoner than most of us

I think you should go back to the qantas thread cos im sure u know more about that. Are u starting to get the jist . If print and internet media didnt exist you would be a dumb shit cos you seriously have no idea about the real ins of any company and it shows every time u type on this blue screen.

ps when does ya F! team want u back for next season cos your sure in hell think ya know everything about that too.

A hint dont believe everything you read or see in the media

End rant

I have not bought a HSV, but I spent HSV money buying a new car called Monaro... I also know that a car manufacturer is a business, not a company that has to endlessly kiss a few unstable peoples @rses trying to be the most popular kid in school.
Get over yourself and move on. Bringing up the Qantas thread shows you up as nothing more than someone that has let their highly emotive state get to them. That topic has nothing to do with this one, yet you felt a need to use it to get a cheap shot in (even though I was right in that thread )
I'll put something to the people that can think with a clear head....re HSV not "understanding" their market.
Go back 10 years.
How many people still live in the same house as then?
How many people are still with the same wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend?
How many still have the same job?
How many are still members of this forum?
How many still have the same needs out of their motor vehicle?
Time doesn't stand still. People change, and HSV buyers change. Some have stayed with HSV, some new buyers have arrived, some have left, and some will be going soon.
Now relate that to the five "How many's" I listed.
Says all really.

[Toddler78]

Personally I think this has been a very mature minded thread (as rare as rocking horse sh1t on LS1) there is no need to drag it down PD state your views but there is no need to get personal.

back on topic. Maybe Im in la la land but what are peoples thoughts on marketing a car on a full build type theme. ie start with your shell, then start ticking boxes not just for m6 or a6 but engine type l98 to ls3 to lsa etc, also your suspension package, trans package, brake package, etc. therefore you have a package that will suit the hardcore hsv fan is tick upgrrade everthing, to the budget concious buying a hsv but with out the true hardcore performance. It wasnt long ago that you couldnt buy a M6 senator now having the option to option it to have the manual has potentially opened up to a broader market

[planetdavo]

Personally I think this has been a very mature minded thread (as rare as rocking horse sh1t on LS1) there is no need to drag it down PD state your views but there is no need to get personal.

You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion does indicate that you don't understand HSV's business case.
Dare I say it, a rather successful business case, just not one you and some others agree with.
All this talk of HSV having to release a supercharged engine to compete with FPV indicates many people on this forum have no idea of what constitutes the usual HSV buyer these days.
The vocal MINORITY is again at work...

[Toddler78]

I'll put something to the people that can think with a clear head....re HSV not "understanding" their market.
Go back 10 years.
How many people still live in the same house as then?
How many people are still with the same wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend?
How many still have the same job?
How many are still members of this forum?
How many still have the same needs out of their motor vehicle?
Time doesn't stand still. People change, and HSV buyers change. Some have stayed with HSV, some new buyers have arrived, some have left, and some will be going soon.
Now relate that to the five "How many's" I listed.
Says all really.

exactly right you hit the nail on the head. HSV are a business and as a business they need to evolve to continue to appeal to their customer base both old and new. No one said it was easy but needless to say it needs to be done. You dont need to look to far from home to see how bad it could go, look at GM after being in business for 100 years and being the leader in the automotive industry they pretty much went belly up because they could not evolve with the market trend.

[Toddler78]

You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion does indicate that you don't understand HSV's business case.
Dare I say it, a rather successful business case, just not one you and some others agree with.
All this talk of HSV having to release a supercharged engine to compete with FPV indicates many people on this forum have no idea of what constitutes the usual HSV buyer these days.
The vocal MINORITY is again at work...

yes I agree with you HSV dont need to release a supercharged engine to compete with FPV but it would be nice to offer it as an optional upgrade (at a premium price)

[planetdavo]

exactly right you hit the nail on the head. HSV are a business and as a business they need to evolve to continue to appeal to their customer base both old and new. No one said it was easy but needless to say it needs to be done. You dont need to look to far from home to see how bad it could go, look at GM after being in business for 100 years and being the leader in the automotive industry they pretty much went belly up because they could not evolve with the market trend.

Yep.
A business is only as good as it's management (and staff), and if the management has it's head stuck in the sand refusing to move with the times then it will likely sink.
Many in this thread are refusing to see the whole picture, not accepting that HSV may have moved away from THEIR wishes to pursue the more current wishes.
GM sunk because of many reasons. the primary reasons being their cancerous retirement plans, and their "old school" thinking that big, dumb trucks were a cash cow, even though the world was starting to tell them a very different story...

[Toddler78]

Yep.
A business is only as good as it's management (and staff), and if the management has it's head stuck in the sand refusing to move with the times then it will likely sink.
Many in this thread are refusing to see the whole picture, not accepting that HSV may have moved away from THEIR wishes to pursue the more current wishes.
GM sunk because of many reasons. the primary reasons being their cancerous retirement plans, and their "old school" thinking that big, dumb trucks were a cash cow, even though the world was starting to tell them a very different story...

100% correct. I dont think HSV are doing anything wrong persay and I dont think they need to do this and that (i e supercharged engines) however they are not developing the product, they are only grabbing it from the GM parts bin, it would be nice to be able to offer a full option.

When I bought my monaro it was exactly what I was after. before I bought it however, my brief for a car was must be a commodore, must be manual,, black, cruise control and climate control. apart from the run out SSZ cars monaro was the only car in holdens line up where you could get climate control and a manual together. maybe there is not a big market for it, but they have it available to them, offer it as an optional combination. Now obviously harder for holden to do it due to the shear number of cars they produce, but alot easier for HSV to do it

[rgmast]

I have not bought a HSV, but I spent HSV money buying a new car called Monaro... Bringing up the Qantas thread shows you up as nothing more than someone that has let their highly emotive state get to them. blah blah blah

So thats a solid NO to u ever buying a HSV and the experience that goes with it

and bringing up the qantas thread just stating u think u know everything and have to have an input into everything

why havent ya commented in the my partner is jealous thread