Does HSV understand its Market?

[nailit]

I would've thought that HSV would use the supercharged LSA engine in any supercharged vehicle.....400+KW depending upon tune, would be plenty, I reckon.
I do know that LSAs have been around Lang Lang for a considerable time.
Cheers, Pickles.

Its an LSA . . thats a given. . . but is it the ZL 1 LSA????? . . . . as that comes with additional fruit that make it a sweet combo . . . and has better "Track Orientated Durability" than the CTSV LSA!!!

[SilverVH]

Hopefully its not something like that. There are only so many ways you can re-cook porridge. The last thing anyone needs is for this to be yet another 13 second car....
(That $45K Clubby is looking better and better!)

That was kind of taking the piss, but at the same time I guess not to far from the truth.

AFAIK its ZL1 spec detuned. It is slated for 2013, but looks like it could be coming earlier than expected if the rumour mill is true?

[mrtockley]

That was kind of taking the piss, but at the same time I guess not to far from the truth.

AFAIK its ZL1 spec detuned. It is slated for 2013, but looks like it could be coming earlier than expected if the rumour mill is true?

It doesn't matter how good the LSA engine is, it will be another flop if they charge over $150k like that other white elephant..

[VYSHSV8]

It doesn't matter how good the LSA engine is, it will be another flop if they charge over $150k like that other white elephant..

Those other white elephants as you refer to aka the W427 does not handle anything like a factory HSV they are a totally different car and if I had the cash I would buy one any day of the week..
Have you driven one ??????

[nailit]

It doesn't matter how good the LSA engine is, it will be another flop if they charge over $150k like that other white elephant..

LOL at Tockley . . . I see a lot of posts from you with a negative tone . . . and this is no different

The W427 was always going to be a 100 Car Model according to us . . . similar to other low volume HSV's inc VS GTSR, 10th Anniv Senator, VT2 GTS just to name a few . . . and yes again HSV didnt read the market properly when they suggested (foolishly) that they would do 427 of them.. . . we actually thought that announcement was damn right stupid at the time and we were right!!

We thought production might get to 150 at a pinch and in the end it made 130's . . . the interesting thing is what they will be worth in the end . . . and non of us know the answer to that!! . . . but if history is any guide . . the Red VL HDT Group A was also deemed a dud at the release in 1986 - inderpowered, over priced at 33500 on road with Air and Plus Pack . . . and look what a prestine one of them things make these days . . . that if you can actually get a prestine one!!!!

I guess we are lucky that we are positive as we have a prestine Group A VL in the garage with 11000k's on it . . and parked right next to it is a prestine W427 in Red . . . not for sale . . . what would those two be worth in another 20 years when young tockley is 56 and looking back at the history of performance Holdens . . . at these 2 "White Elephants" . . .

[dazzrael]

Get your facts straight . . . the Toyota 3.9 (that ends tomorrow) is a Toyota subsidised deal . . . you are NOT locked into RRP or any other shenagens . . . go do a deal and then get the rate!! . . . other deals may differ with other brands but over time this sort of activity will be worn by the Brand . . . not the punter or Dealer!!!

Exactly! The finance is provided by Toyota and the price of the car is the same. It was a GREAT deal and will save us THOUSANDS in interest over the life of the loan. Its not like the "motorfinancewizard" where they jack up the price of the car astronomically, it is genuinelly 3.9% NO CATCH! If HSV did a sale like that with GENUINE discount finance I would be on top of it in seconds. Like I said earlier, this is how GM have stayed in business in the states where nobody has any money to buy new cars.

[Martin_D]

Those other white elephants as you refer to aka the W427 does not handle anything like a factory HSV they are a totally different car and if I had the cash I would buy one any day of the week..
Have you driven one ??????

W427 certainly is a special car in the HSV genre, if thats what you are chasing.
As for being a totally different car to a conventional HSV in handling? The W427 I looked under shared identical suspension arm location, geometry, steering geometry and chassis to any other HSV I have seen. It may have different calibration in the shocks/springs, so it steers and handles much like any other VE Commodore (as you would expect) and thats not a bad thing. Yes I have driven one. Having not purchased such a car I find it hard to make the emotional connect with W427 that many do. It is a nice car, but so is C63, M3 and plenty of others in that coin range. Buy what you want.

What it really needed was a Polariser

If you are interested nailit I still have a genuine Brocky Polariser kicking around that we put the bandsaw through in the early nineties for a laugh. We have the masters 'schematic' for world domination. It would be interesting to test it on the W427, and save having to pull one out of position on one of your other cars

[seldo]

Whilst I think HSV have a damn good product, it is still a mass-produced gadget that comes off the line like a sausage machine, and accordingly has many stupid, yet to some - soul-destroying weaknesses and failures.
That is a given.
But it's how these problems are dealt with that is the measure of a quality up-market product.
There is certainly no doubt that HSV has a long way to go in the aftermarket service area. I am a firm believer that no matter what consumer product you are selling - be it cars, cameras, TVs, fridges or whatever, you can make or break owner satisfaction, and the product's market reputation, simply with the way these problems are dealt with.
It is a man-made, mass-produced product, and therefore it will have the occassional problem. Absolutely no doubt.
But the problem lies in the way these issues are dealt with, or not.
It isn't so much that the car has a problem - it is all about how the issue is handled, firstly on a dealer level, and then, by the manufacturer.
When you take the car in with an issue, and get the old "Oh - they all do that - it's normal", or "that clutch issue is your poor driving", or "That rattle inside the engine is normal - just see if it develops" - it is very disappointing, and, at that point, even though the issue might eventually get fixed, irretrievable damage is already done.
The manufacturers make sufficient profit that any issue should be dealt with immediately and comprehensively if they are to have a hope in hell of maintaing any customer loyalty.
In a lifetime of retail experience I have seen over and over again that it is not the original fault that is the cause of the discontent - it is how the issue is handled.
It always works the same way - there is a fault in the product and the customer takes it back to the seller/dealer. If it is fixed quickly and without argument, the customer goes away happy as if the fault had never occurred.
But - if there is an initial argument or non-repair, it escalates, the service manager gets involved, then the dealer principal, then the manufacturer's rep, and, and, until usually finally the problem is attended to as it should have been from day one.
Result - the owner hates the car, the dealer, the manufacturer, and swears to never buy one again and tells all his friends the same.
Yet - if the issue was handled correctly initally, for far less cost and aggravation, the end result is so totally different and better.
For example - I have a Smeg cooker in my kitchen and after about 6 years the markings on the knobs have worn off. The original warranty was 12 months, so I rang the company in Sydney, explained the issue and asked for a price on replacement knobs for the function and the temperature controls. They said - oh they're $37 each, but that shouldn't happen, so at no cost we'll send you some new ones and a couple of spare ones for good measure. Am I happy ? - yes. Am I concerned that I had the problem in the first place ? - not in the slightest, because it was dealt with appropriately by someone with some savvy marketing skills.
If HSV is to ever become a genuine up-market brand, they need some serious lessons in this regard.

[nailit]

W427 certainly is a special car in the HSV genre, if thats what you are chasing.

What it really needed was a Polariser

If you are interested nailit I still have a genuine Brocky Polariser kicking around that we put the bandsaw through in the early nineties for a laugh. We have the masters 'schematic' for world domination. It would be interesting to test it on the W427, and save having to pull one out of position on one of your other cars

Gotta Laugh . . . you were always good at running $100 notes thru a bandsaw!!! . . . . and as for world domination . . . we missed that boat . . . PD beat us to it!!

What Brock & Dowker should have done was market the bloody thing to the Female Gender . . . then we might see far less Shitters running around with Crystals hanging of their mirrors . . . and PD would have one on his "Play Thing" too. . . naturally

[Martin_D]

Nailit - Stop It!
Since Planetdavos mum has changed the password on her computer this place hasnt been the same. Simple as that.

As for the Energy Polariser....it was way back in the day....but I bet you I am the only person in this thread that knows the true contents of the fabled Polariser. While it cost me a few hundred at the time, it cost ol Brocky - while he was going through his first wack-job phase - millions. I remember clearly 'The machines to measure the effects of the Polariser havent been invented yet.' Some one should of sent a Stop Watch through to Bertie Street me thinks
Still I can replicate the device exactly if need be

Would be a very nice and nostalgic touch to a new Clubby that would add perceived value and genuine race-track cred (if not improved lap times). Thats the kind of spark thats missing today

[jai]

I think I know someone with a savage Amethist collection that could probably chip in to make the next gen polarizer lol

[VYSHSV8]

W427 certainly is a special car in the HSV genre, if thats what you are chasing.
As for being a totally different car to a conventional HSV in handling? The W427 I looked under shared identical suspension arm location, geometry, steering geometry and chassis to any other HSV I have seen. It may have different calibration in the shocks/springs, so it steers and handles much like any other VE Commodore (as you would expect) and thats not a bad thing. Yes I have driven one. Having not purchased such a car I find it hard to make the emotional connect with W427 that many do. It is a nice car, but so is C63, M3 and plenty of others in that coin range. Buy what you want.

What it really needed was a Polariser

If you are interested nailit I still have a genuine Brocky Polariser kicking around that we put the bandsaw through in the early nineties for a laugh. We have the masters 'schematic' for world domination. It would be interesting to test it on the W427, and save having to pull one out of position on one of your other cars

Yep was just referring to different spring rates etc
we all know the geometry is basically the same

bring back the Polariser

[VYSHSV8]

LOL at Tockley . . . I see a lot of posts from you with a negative tone . . . and this is no different

The W427 was always going to be a 100 Car Model according to us . . . similar to other low volume HSV's inc VS GTSR, 10th Anniv Senator, VT2 GTS just to name a few . . . and yes again HSV didnt read the market properly when they suggested (foolishly) that they would do 427 of them.. . . we actually thought that announcement was damn right stupid at the time and we were right!!

We thought production might get to 150 at a pinch and in the end it made 130's . . . the interesting thing is what they will be worth in the end . . . and non of us know the answer to that!! . . . but if history is any guide . . the Red VL HDT Group A was also deemed a dud at the release in 1986 - inderpowered, over priced at 33500 on road with Air and Plus Pack . . . and look what a prestine one of them things make these days . . . that if you can actually get a prestine one!!!!

I guess we are lucky that we are positive as we have a prestine Group A VL in the garage with 11000k's on it . . and parked right next to it is a prestine W427 in Red . . . not for sale . . . what would those two be worth in another 20 years when young tockley is 56 and looking back at the history of performance Holdens . . . at these 2 "White Elephants" . . .

I will have both of them overpriced cars anyday and actually most of whats in ya shed

[csv rulz]

Nailit - Stop It!
Since Planetdavos mum has changed the password on her computer this place hasnt been the same. Simple as that.

As for the Energy Polariser....it was way back in the day....but I bet you I am the only person in this thread that knows the true contents of the fabled Polariser. While it cost me a few hundred at the time, it cost ol Brocky - while he was going through his first wack-job phase - millions. I remember clearly 'The machines to measure the effects of the Polariser havent been invented yet.' Some one should of sent a Stop Watch through to Bertie Street me thinks
Still I can replicate the device exactly if need be

Would be a very nice and nostalgic touch to a new Clubby that would add perceived value and genuine race-track cred (if not improved lap times). Thats the kind of spark thats missing today

Doesnt the latest VL Retro HDT contain the Polariser? Made by Bev Brock herslef?

[288vxgts300]

In the latest AMC,HDT are biulding a 25th anniversary model,with the same Polarizer device fitted.

For current HDT Special Vehicle owner, Peter Champion,fitment of the Polarizers,built by Bev Brock,is all about authenticity.

Owners must buy a donor SS from Holden,which will then incorporate a 350kW/610Nm 6.0-litre.Bilstein sus,bodykit,retro interior,20'' MOMO-style wheels,a respray in Permanent Red,retro badging and the destinctive Peter Brock signature.Oh,and the Polarizer,limited to 250 vehicles,with build plate on every vihicle.