End of Holden?

[Tre-Cool]

but to be fair, the 4 cyclinder engines holden have been using have been gutless shit heaps with crap bodies.

the cruze is not bad car now with the turbo charged 1.4, all they need to do is put that in a barina body and put a nice looking sporty body kit on it and sell it as a small performance car.

This way they may get a cult following like the ls1 engined cars have thanks to the tuning/modibility. (they run an ecu similar the VE commodore so can be tuned)

[the big fist]

Supporting industry IS fantastic if one day the industry is able to be in a position to support itself.
Nothing wrong with Holden or the product, just Australia is not a very good place to manufacture anything these days with out of control Industrial Relations and tax after tax pricing the product out of the international game. Supporting industry IS fantastic if one day the industry is able to be in a position to support itself. The way Australian manufacturing is heading, this is questionable without major reform. Certainly Holden and Ford have been living of government handouts since day dot.

Tax for the sake of tax is not fantastic. At least not to me.
Nothing will change, we will just pay more tax, and there will be more smiley news reports backed by the government to make us feel good about it.

Couldn't agree with you more, 100000% Imagine if every business was run as poorly as this. Take the emotion out of it and whats left is an uneconomical business.

[ti0350]

the Government was the ones that f#3ked up in the first place, They wanted the Australian manufacturers to be able to compete on the global market so they keep dropping the Tariffs on imports. While doing this they signed up to useless free trade agreements which gave free kicks to importers again. Not long after we signed the FTA with thailand. Thialand introduced a special levy on imported vehicles over certain capacity which basically ended any hope of an export market for Holden and Ford with their utes.
When you look at every country in the world with a car industry they offer way more assistance either directly or indirectly then what the Australian Government does.

[jai]

Could a reborn holden without GM survive or even take off? What assets does Holden actually own that GM don't have their hand in?

[cams290]

If govenments are prepared to put money into the "second rate" Ford product(as of today), they'll come good with $$$ for Holden.

Why does Holden need government money anyway ?
They sell twice the amount of Commodores compared to Falcon and the Cruze is selling well, Holden has had heaps of government handouts over the years, not to mention the parent company GM getting it's ass saved by the US govt/tax payers.

[seedyrom]

all they want is somthing to get from A to B, uses bugger all fuel, cheap to buy, not worried about space and comfort, not worried weather the driving wheels are the back or the front etc. Cars like all the small Mazdas, Toyotas, etc

Chevy have something for them on the horizon, and it is right wheel drive

[feistl]

Chevy have something for them on the horizon, and it is right wheel drive

Hmm, torque steer would be a bitch.

[VYBerlinaV8]

As most of the Australian car buying public nowdays are buying Imports instead of the large aussie cars.

Exactly - the question is 'why'?

[Woodchukka]

Couldn't agree with you more, 100000% Imagine if every business was run as poorly as this. Take the emotion out of it and whats left is an uneconomical business.

Birds of a feather flock together. No government I have seen if efficient especially this one. Giving cash to Holden of Ford is one of the more useful extras they have spent money on.

[Pickles]

Martin (post 7) & VL Executive (post 14) both make very good points.
Holden simply does not have the range of vehicles to compete alongside the type of vehicles owners are choosing these days, nor can it afford to develop a car simply for Aus, there isn't the money for R/D...nor do I believe do we have a market big enough to support an Aussie designed car....we'd need exports to support it.....then we'd have to compete with the Koreans etc....in its entirety, an almost impossible task.
PLUS, manufacturing costs in Aus are HUGELY more than our competitors. Of course, as all have said "Govt Subsidies"......but,how long can they continue?
I never thought I'd see the end of Holden.....maybe I won't, but I reckon there's a distinct possibility that I will see the day when no cars are MANUFACTURED in Aus.....of any brand.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Martin_D]

You would have to wonder why the government would pump money into Falcon and Territory when no one buys them in the first place. They sell nothing.
Its all about keeping the safe seats in the heartland. The government that lets Holden or Ford die is the government that gets shown the door. Pumping money down the black hole that is Australian Auto manufacturing is a sensible piece of election trail campaigning and probably only costs as much as the numerous useless grants given to various hippies to make bongo drums from reclaimed river mud etc. GM and Ford know this, so when its time for some more money to offset sending production to China, they hold their hand out and they get rewarded. Every time. Mitsubishi werent that lucky as other than an Aussie connection through Peter Wherret they were viewed as a 'Jap' company, so they could be allowed to die. Pearl Harbour and all.

We might as well have Aussie cars, as like them or loathe them, they are good for everyone here in some roundabout way.
We just have to get used to pay a massive amount for these cars comparitive to a world market as the cost of making anything in Australia is through the roof thanks to our lethargic lifestyle and overly high expectations. As a guy with two teeth told me last week "If you aint on free grand a week mate youse a farking nuffing"

[VX2VESS]

Nothing is worth making here as we are all overpaid compared to the world market. Pollies just set the tone for another round of wage rises for the country pushing us even further away, greedy lot here.

Buy ten homes in America for the price of one here. All food and commodities are cheaper overseas than here because we are a greedy lot.

All manufacturing is packing up and moving overseas to be able to compete with pricing because workers here are overpaid. Whos fault is that, everyone keeps asking for more each year, it adds costs right through everything from the delivery guy to the store.

We are not that lucky will be teetering on the point of collapse as we price ourselves out of the world

GM just want a hand because Ford is getting one.

[andrewslr]

A few of things to consider:

- Each time the government makes a handout to manufacturers it hands over OUR money, that paid in taxes by the "average" Australian. When we purchase these cars developed and built with taxpayer funding we still pay full whack for them. So my point is that we pay a lot more thann the sticker price.......BUT
- The government investing in the manufacturers helps to continue development programs, R&D, technology and a myriad of other industries, that not only benefit directly from car manufacturing, but also the technology and IP that finds its way into other aspects of life.
- What is cheaper.....funding the car industry or the the social security payments to misplaced workers?.....something to consider.

Now to the point about Holden not having a broad enough range, I agree. On a recent stay in France it struck me that an extremely large % of cars were French built ie. Peugots, Renault, Citroen. What was more interesting to observe is that hey all seem to have a vehicle in every catogry from light car to heavy transport. Yes critical mass has something to do with that, but there is a lot to be said for product range and giving the market what it wants.

[VYBerlinaV8]

Nothing is worth making here as we are all overpaid compared to the world market.

This is the price of prosperity.

[Tre-Cool]

if holden were seperate from GM, i reakon their exports would go up, because then they wouldnt be limited by the bean counters and nay sayers from going into new markets.

Think about it, they allready export to the arabs, the brazilians, the chinese under the chev brand in limited numbers anyway. Start selling the caprice to the yanks and smash em in their own back yard i say.