End of Holden?

[Smitty]

......
Holden simply does not have the range of vehicles to compete alongside the type of vehicles owners are choosing these days, nor can it afford to develop a car simply for Aus, there isn't the money for R/D...nor do I believe do we have a market big enough to support an Aussie designed car....we'd need exports to support it.....then we'd have to compete with the Koreans etc....in its entirety, an almost impossible task.
PLUS, manufacturing costs in Aus are HUGELY more than our competitors. Of course, as all have said "Govt Subsidies"......but,how long can they continue?
I never thought I'd see the end of Holden.....maybe I won't, but I reckon there's a distinct possibility that I will see the day when no cars are MANUFACTURED in Aus.....of any brand.
Cheers, Pickles.

Pickles

I think you (and all else here with interest in this topic) should read this....
(its too long to post but here is the link to the GM press release)

http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/ne...%20Address.pdf

Its by FCAI President, Chairman and Managing Director of GMHolden, Mike Devereux
and explains a lot of what the industry (and GM Holdens) thinks about where it is today...and the future

its not all doom and gloom

[Carby]

boo ****ing hoo to gm and ford.

cant run a competitive business you close up or go out of business.

WELL SAID! SO F@#KING TRUE!! But wait, the ceo and board of directors won't get their annual half a million bonuses for sitting on their asses.. hahaha pathetic it is!!!

Also to an earlier thread about them paying GST... They charge it too everyone else first, before they pay it back to ATO, so they don't pay shit on GST, we pay that too...
Just close the F@#king business..!!

Heres my suggestion to you - go buy your cheap Chery (where I'm sure it is made by employees who have all the benefits we Aussies have ) and then you can leave this forum as you obviously don't give a shite about the local industry nor it's products and thats what this forum is about - ohh and we wouldn't miss you................

[Carby]

Supporting industry IS fantastic if one day the industry is able to be in a position to support itself.
Nothing wrong with Holden or the product, just Australia is not a very good place to manufacture anything these days with out of control Industrial Relations and tax after tax pricing the product out of the international game. Supporting industry IS fantastic if one day the industry is able to be in a position to support itself. The way Australian manufacturing is heading, this is questionable without major reform. Certainly Holden and Ford have been living of government handouts since day dot.

Tax for the sake of tax is not fantastic. At least not to me.
Nothing will change, we will just pay more tax, and there will be more smiley news reports backed by the government to make us feel good about it.

So where do you draw the line? Clothing industry, Shoe Industry, Food manufacturing - do we give up on manufacturing altogether as we are uncompetitive?

The trouble is that we are always subject to a new emerging country that has low wages and other costs and they are always going to make us uncompetitive. A classic case are Japanese cars - when they first arrived in Australia they were cheap - but once the workforce has a comparable standard of living to us they become expensive as well - hence why many Japanese models are made in other Asian countries.

Sure Martin let it all go without a fight, I'm sure we'll find our niche somewhere - maybe a service Industry as tourists flock to our shores as everything will be cheap as the government won't have any manufacturing companies to waste money on........

[aussiemuscle308]

We are only 1 of 13 nations that can design and manufacture cars on this planet. What country doesn't support it's car industry?.

We're the ones with the lowest tariffs in the world. other countries protect their industry with subsidies and fake tariffs (eg korea's 'Education' tax).

1. holden was set up for local production because when japan was sinking boats, we realised we couldn't rely on bringing cars from the UK anymore. how quickly we forget.
2. if ford local production disappears, so will holden and toyota
3. people say they support Australian made, then go buy a mazda.... go figure..

[steve_t]

Chevy have something for them on the horizon, and it is right wheel drive

Hmm, torque steer would be a bitch.

[Martin_D]

Sure Martin let it all go without a fight........

The Aussie manufacturing sector should fight like hell, and it should receive government assistance EQUALLY.
The long term has to be that the Aussie manufacturers can stand on their own two feet....and not specific instances receive help because they are 'blue ribbon' electioneering material in a simpleton 'hearts and minds' campaign.

And if they cant' survive without being propped up by taxpayers? Thats because Aussies aren't buying Aussie made products.
If everyone here wants to help Holden and Ford be competitive - go out and hand over $50K+ for a brand new one

[mickey10]

You would have to wonder why the government would pump money into Falcon and Territory when no one buys them in the first place. They sell nothing.

Territory was actually the best selling SUV of 2011 so I don't know where you get the idea that nobody buys them. Mostly private buyers for the Territory now that diesel has been introduced which means more profit for local car makers. Cruze on the other hand, even though it is selling well, isn't making much money for Holden.

[Pickles]

I stand by what I say....& what I say ain't just confined to the car industry.....it applies to ALL Aussie manufacturing, MORE & MORE, of which is going off-shore.....because our costs of manufacturing are too dear.....that embraces wages, penalty rates, L/S Leave, baby leave, "benefits"...HEAPS of stuff that ALL adds to the wages bill......compare our wages to those in China & South Korea.....and yeah I know...who wants to accept those conditions........BUT, there are MORE & MORE of us buying their product......where's the Aussie clothing industry gone?.....Off shore of course.
We have simply priced ourselves out of contention.....I say, in the manufacturing sector, it IS all doom & gloom....particularly in the long term.....I mean, what is going to turn things around? If you can give me the answer, I'll be very happy.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Jamolad]

Pickles

I think you (and all else here with interest in this topic) should read this....
(its too long to post but here is the link to the GM press release)

http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/ne...%20Address.pdf

Its by FCAI President, Chairman and Managing Director of GMHolden, Mike Devereux
and explains a lot of what the industry (and GM Holdens) thinks about where it is today...and the future

its not all doom and gloom

Yep, that is the transcript of the speech I was referring to earlier in this thread. It is quite long but a very good read, and he makes some very good points. Well worth the read, even if you don't agree with everything he says, and interestingly it is not laden with a heap of self promotion or spruiking of Holden products as you might expect, and he even heaps praise on what Ford are doing with their latest engines (not the S/C 5.0 that gets most of the press around here).

[Frankster_P]

Some of the Ford num nuts are loving this on the Ford forum.
Crusty bogans stuck in the 70's they sound like.

They dont realise who the real enemy is... Japan inc.

[steve_t]

Some of the Ford num nuts are loving this on the Ford forum.
Crusty bogans stuck in the 70's they sound like.

They dont realise who the real enemy is... Japan inc.

Oh the ironing is delicious

[185iboy]

All part of the gamesmanship. Ford have just scabbed some money of the Federal and Victorian Governments to keep the Falcon going till late 2016 (including an upgrade in 2014) so GM will be doing the "gee we are thinking about shutting Holden" and the politicians such as Weatherill shit themselves and start shovelling over the cash to keep Holden in business. Now that Ford has got a handout Holden will get one for the 2018 Commodore, so bad news for taxpayers but good news for us Holden fans.

Cheers, Matthew

Ford got their $103m from Ford USA not from the gov. I guess the only people that really care for Commodores and Falcons are the ones interested in keeping our true performance cars and we're probably trying to keep alive a battle already lost. I'd still settle for Stangs and Vettes if it came down to it.

[Jag530G]

When Australians exercise free choice in the matter of buying a car the vast majority choose not to give their money to GM or Ford for an Australian made car. The vast majority of Australians exercise their free choice in buying a car NOT made in Australia by Ford or GM. This being the cold hard fact why should Australians by compelled via the spending of tax payers dollars into subsidising Ford and GM? I don't think we should, if so many Australians are so concerned about this they would buy a Commodore or a Falcon, but they don't. As for the argument that a subsidy to GM and Ford means more tax revenue and fewer dole payments for the government, its a poor argument because of the opportunity cost involved. If GM and Ford shut down tomorrow the workers would get jobs elsewhere and be paying tax anyway. This country has a skills shortage. Look at the joke of subsidising Mitsubishi when unemployment was sub 5% and the mining boom was in full swing, the government was effectively tying up useful workers in pointless jobs producing unwanted goods and spending taxpayers dollars doing so. If the unions are so concerned lets see them offer to take pay cuts instead of pushing for pay rises like they have been doing at Toyota recently, complete bloody morons for that effort. Yes I love Holden but I don't support giving them taxpayer dollars and if they can't remain profitable then close the doors we move on. Nothing is forever.

Cheers, Matthew

[Smitty]

............... Yes I love Holden but I don't support giving them taxpayer dollars and if they can't remain profitable then close the doors we move on. Nothing is forever.

Cheers, Matthew

now if we apply that logic and reasoning...
it also gets applied to the mining food agriculture and tourist industries for starters
(there are LOTS of industries getting govt handouts) and they also shutdown

what you going to eat..???

[Mick1]

As a guy with two teeth told me last week "If you aint on free grand a week mate youse a farking nuffing"

What were ya doin in Collingwood mate?