Anyone using a HM Headers Exhaust? or Walkinshaw?

[MANARO]

i am not sure why everyone is saying extractors and high flow cats are illegal, i was inspected after getting defected and passed no worries with extractors and high flow cats on the car here in s.a, as long as the cats are there and it passes DB reading they were fine with it. in saying that i didn't have an emissions test done.

[Xenon]

i am not sure why everyone is saying extractors and high flow cats are illegal....... in saying that i didn't have an emissions test done.

You answered your own question.

[AMADR8]

Louder than stock and legal aint gonna happen! They only just scrape under the 90dB from factory

NOT TRUE, bimodal my friend, aps have done it

[Doco]

I think I read that APS did it with Bimodal fully open.

Aftermarket Bimodals like varex are outlawed also.

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/no...hiclenoise.htm

The Regulation also makes it an offence to use temporary noise reduction devices or packing in vehicle exhausts. This includes items such as baffles in the exhaust system that have not been welded/riveted in place, or items that are adjustable such as valves, or materials introduced into the exhaust system, such as steel wool. These items must not be used to defeat a noise test.

NOT TRUE, bimodal my friend, aps have done it

[AMADR8]

I think I read that APS did it with Bimodal fully open.

Aftermarket Bimodals like varex are outlawed also.

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/no...hiclenoise.htm

The Regulation also makes it an offence to use temporary noise reduction devices or packing in vehicle exhausts. This includes items such as baffles in the exhaust system that have not been welded/riveted in place, or items that are adjustable such as valves, or materials introduced into the exhaust system, such as steel wool. These items must not be used to defeat a noise test.

mate there are ways around all that for it to be legal, doesnt matter if aps had it open or closed, at the end of the day it passed WITH THE VALVES ON, my car came from factory with bimodal so it is legal to have them there, just not legal to be able to adjust it to open when ever u want. i think you will find aps used the control module pre set to open and close at a certain rpm so that the valves were shut at the testing level, this means that they cant be opened by the driver when ever they want, just like the hsv version

[mattnsw]

Mate, I'm just asking questions to find out where I stand, and those questions apply to everyone on here. Yes, I joined in 2005, but I've only just recently been active because I only recent;ly bought another Holden.

Apologies if you're finding my posts annoying, but this stuff isn't obvious, you can easily be driving around in an illegal vehicle and be none the wiser.

Fair enough and I’m definitely not annoyed, it’s not that important to me.

As this is a performance orientated enthusiast forum where modifications are the primary topic, I was curious why a member would buy a modified car and without giving a thought to its mods before buying it.
And why after being a member for so long you hadn’t picked up the faintest hint of the pros and cons of the basic exhaust, cold air, suspension & tune mods. The forum is saturated with them and their legalities.
It was reasonable to wonder why.

Anyway all’s good, enjoy the car, I would have kept it the way it is. It would be much more fun.

[Wonky]

I wonder what the legalities are re putting an aftermarket bimodal system like HM's on a HSV E2 or E3 which was available from the factory with the bimodal? I suspect that to the letter of the law if it didn't come from the factory with the bimodal it would be illegal to add one, but what about if it came from the factory with HSV's bimodal and you then updated to HM's? If it passed noise testing I suspect it would be OK?

[Doco]

Hey Wonky,

Basically, from what I've read / been told by two engineers, and also a tuning house in the last two days, is that any new vehicle (mine being 2010 for example) has very tight emission and noise control, any change to the exhaust system, other than what was designed to be on the car from factory, is considered tampering, and possibly altering the noise and emission output. Even if you replace the exhaust with an aftermarket item that is able to pass an ADR / EPA gauntlet, you still have to have an engineers certificate to prove it, and the police, can fine you in the meantime for not having it engineered.

Many people on here are fine with that, but who wants the headache, and who has the time to be dicking around jumping through hoops to pass some emissions test? Once you pass that test, it is still not a certificate, and can happen again. One engineer I spoke to said he'd inspect the car, and if it passed all tests, he'd write up a certificate. I asked for a ballpark estimate, and he said between $1,000 and $1,500. This is probably a wise option for some, but anything with an OTR a Mafless tune, non euro 4 emission regulated cats, will not be passed. (this applies to late model cars)

Now, if the law deems non standard, non engineered exhausts as unroadworthy, that is in direct breach of policy with an insurer such as NRMA who say, you can have any mod you want, as long as it's legal

So, to answer your question, no, if it's not from factory, you still need it engineered.

Is this being enforced? May not be common, but Ive found several cases in the past few days, mostly hotted up turbos etc, but that's not to say it can't happen to anyone.

I care more about this than most because I've had insurance cancelled in the past for non disclosure of something I didn't even consider to be an issue, fortunately the car wasn't worth much.

If anyone is interested, this is the engineer I spoke to, he takes bookings and was pretty helpful on the phone, straight up older, no bullshit kind of bloke http://www.terrytoomey.com.au/

I suspect the industry will be forced to change very soon, workshops will be required to meet ADR standards, one subsection of the guideline I read said it's an offense to sell a vehicle with non compliant exhausts, here's the link
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/no...hiclenoise.htm

I don't like this anymore than the next guy, I love my ute, love V8s, and cars in general, but I don't need the headache that goes along with knowing I may be uninsured.

I wonder what the legalities are re putting an aftermarket bimodal system like HM's on a HSV E2 or E3 which was available from the factory with the bimodal? I suspect that to the letter of the law if it didn't come from the factory with the bimodal it would be illegal to add one, but what about if it came from the factory with HSV's bimodal and you then updated to HM's? If it passed noise testing I suspect it would be OK?

[LuisS]

I just cut-paste as I CBF doing links etc..but here is the email header



Hello Luis,

Undertook the noise test earlier this arvo and all seems well to me.

I forgot the instruction on how to close the butterfly valves to test on the single outlet however with the duel outlets open the vehicle comfortably complies with respect to stationary noise of a modified vehicle as far as EPA Victoria would be concerned.

EPA Victoria Quote 90dB(A) maximum

The National code of practice for light vehicle conbstruction & modification document attached is also rather vague with respcet to stating a maximum figure for stationary noise, however the Australian Vehicle Standards (1999) also states a limit of 90dB(A)

We are measuring with all outlets open a maximum figure of 85dB(A)

All seems good to me.

Vehicle shall be ready for pick up anytime tomorrow - I shall not be in but get the tow truck drive to ask for Gavin Mabbutt and he shall assist.

Thanks again

Rob Davies

Project Engineer - Automotive

Vipac Engineers & Scientists
279 Normanby Road Port Melbourne VIC 3207 Australia
t. +61 3 9647 9764 | f. +61 3 9646 4370 | m. +61 (0)403 989 567

www.vipac.com.au


I guess the point is that if you fit an approved, legal & ADR'd system to your car your insurance company has no argument.

[AMADR8]

thanks luis, exactly my point

[Doco]

The problem, as I see it is. The law states that changing to a non standard exhaust, of any kind, is not allowed, If your factoy exhaust is worn out, you are also supposed to replace it with an identical spec factory equivallent. Doesn't matter if the exhaust you change to is capable of passing an EPA test. Unless you have it engineered wihen you put it on the vehicle, it's an illegal mod. Not just the catback, but the overall combination of exhaust system from engine to tail pipe has to match factory noise and emissions.

I'm still trying to find one place where this is written in plain english, but it's all interweaved in several diferent ADR rules and sections.

I found this on another V8 forum...

...found out some interesting news, It actually effects all vehicles built past ADR27A
design rule (6/76 built)...you might be interested. I spoke to NSW RTA engineer today and licencing manger for AUVIS (blue slip examninations)
IT is a fact, any exhaust...I repeat....ANY[U] exhaust modification other that that of 100% standard fitment or Standard replacement componants for any exhaust (excluding extractors..they are allowed) is deemed to be a modification and requires an engineers certificate. falls under rule 312. (emmission ruling, covers noise, pollution etc...) 96 db for 76 and under....86 Db for 76 year bult up. Pipe ID, muffler allocation/style/amount of needs to be std, go up in 1/2 inch pipe ID and you need an engineer to pass it, given CO reading printout, noise DB test and structuall report...

[Doco]

Luis, I'm not knocking the work you've done, or disagreeing with the principal, but what do you get in terms of official document, to say that one of these exhausts is ADR approved and legal? just the manfactureres word?

Only solution is, fit a system, such as yours, which you know is compliant, then pay your extra $1,000 or whatever to have an engineer pass it. The car as a whole has to pass an enineers certificate with the exhaust in place.

I just cut-paste as I CBF doing links etc..but here is the email header



Hello Luis,

Undertook the noise test earlier this arvo and all seems well to me.

I forgot the instruction on how to close the butterfly valves to test on the single outlet however with the duel outlets open the vehicle comfortably complies with respect to stationary noise of a modified vehicle as far as EPA Victoria would be concerned.

EPA Victoria Quote 90dB(A) maximum

The National code of practice for light vehicle conbstruction & modification document attached is also rather vague with respcet to stating a maximum figure for stationary noise, however the Australian Vehicle Standards (1999) also states a limit of 90dB(A)

We are measuring with all outlets open a maximum figure of 85dB(A)

All seems good to me.

Vehicle shall be ready for pick up anytime tomorrow - I shall not be in but get the tow truck drive to ask for Gavin Mabbutt and he shall assist.

Thanks again

Rob Davies

Project Engineer - Automotive

Vipac Engineers & Scientists
279 Normanby Road Port Melbourne VIC 3207 Australia
t. +61 3 9647 9764 | f. +61 3 9646 4370 | m. +61 (0)403 989 567

www.vipac.com.au


I guess the point is that if you fit an approved, legal & ADR'd system to your car your insurance company has no argument.

[Kotso]

Hi all.

Ok, so im getting The walki 3" exhaust and hi-flo headers with the bimodal option on my e3 gts.
Just wandering if anyone knows of the bimodal option changed to be fully open as opposed to the factory set rpm restrictions.
Currently, i think it is active up to 2000Rpm, off from 2000-3300rpm, then on again after that.
I hate to lose the sound at the 2-3k mark, so does anyone know of it being done?

cheers.

[Wonky]

Kotso, is your Walky system bimodal I assume and is it a definite done deal? If not I suggest going down to see Luis at APS to check out their HM bimodal. See http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?150552

My guess from other things I know is that the Walky system is possibly just the HM system anyway with a premium price for the Walky name and possibly not even having the variable controller APS have. I've heard a couple of HM bimodals on some friends' E3s and whilst they're not quite in the class of my KPM (not that I'm biased ) they do sound bloody good for a technically legal system.

[LuisS]

Doco - NP

We have a certificate which shows that the exhaust system & setup we developed with HM Headers for our emissions approved car passes all necessary ADR requirements.

For the record , this system is not the same as the other HM bimodal system we sell