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Thread: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

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    Marco's Avatar
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    2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Didn't see this anywhere but thought it was of interest - article from a few days ago. Basically quoting Mike Deveraux as saying Zeta wasn't a global platform so the next Commodore after VF won't be a Zeta-based car - but not clear whether that means another RWD platform (Alpha?) or some FWD box.

    Worst possible scenario IMHO is a FWD car with a Commodore badge on it. If it's going to be FWD it should be called something else, and put the Commodore badge and all that goes with it to rest.

    GM Holden has locked in plans to produce the second-generation Cruze in Australia from 2016 and is certain to continue with the Commodore nameplate beyond the facelifted 2013 VF model... But exactly what form the 'big' car takes after 2017 is still to be decided.

    That's the takeout from discussions with Holden boss, Mike Devereux, at today's media walkaround of the company's refreshed Elizabeth (SA) production facility.

    Holden has confirmed it will produce two new Australian-made cars based on two global platform architectures as part of a billion-dollar investment (including $225m from the federal government and $50m from the South Australian state government) that it said would guarantee its Australian manufacturing operations until 2022. And last week its parent company confirmed the GM Delta II small-car platform on which the current Cruze is based and the Theta platform that underpins the existing Captiva will be merged into a single platform codenamed D2XX, which is certain to form the basis of the second-generation Cruze from 2016.

    It’s not yet clear, however, what other global platform Holden will manufacture from Elizabeth – or, indeed, if it will provide the basis for an all-new Commodore range around 2017.

    During today's plant tour, Mr Devereux indicated the Commodore nameplate was too valuable to discard, but said the exact configuration [in terms of size whether it is front, all or rear-wheel drive] of a VF replacement was yet to be decided – despite the fact Holden’s second platform has been locked in.

    “Zeta is not a global platform for GM,” he said.

    “The two architectures we put in this plant will be two that we don’t currently use. Delta -- I’ve been candid in saying that given the size and volume of the small car market and its potential for growth we would be kind of dumb not to look at building another small car. The second vehicle [on the small car platform] is yet to be determined.”

    “[For the other car] We’re gonna use a global architecture and the Zeta is not a global architecture.”

    The Commodore has been a top-seller for Holden since 1978 and was Australia’s most popular model for 15 years running until the Mazda3 gazumped it in 2011.

    “I think it (Commodore) is an extremely valuable name,” said Mr Devereux.

    “Will Commodore survive beyond 2022? I can’t say... If Australians keep buying them, we’ll keep selling them.

    “I’d talk about it in terms of a larger car. Whether it’s a Commodore, if it feels like a Commodore, if it’s called a Commodore... the whole thing is having to predict what to do post-VF commodore in that late 2016, early 2017 time frame and coming up with a winner.”

    Asked if a smaller Commodore would have better sales potential, Mr Devereux said: “Anything’s possible. We’re actually still trying to figure out what to build here.

    “It could be that we stick with the configuration that we have here, in terms of rear-wheel drive sports sedan. It could be bigger, it could be smaller, it could be that we don’t go with rear-wheel drive and go with front-wheel drive. And the difficulty is that we have to make decisions very quickly here that we have to live with until 2022.”

    Mr Devereux confirmed Holden must choose between front/all-wheel drive and rear-wheel drive layouts for its larger vehicle, but could not have both.

    “It can be front and all-wheel drive, not front and rear. And AWD cars are pretty good to drive.

    “I wouldn’t rule it out [AWD]. [But] It makes more sense in places with inclement weather.”

    However, the Holden chief indicated that driven wheels could become the main differentiator between the midsize front-drive Malibu and the larger model Holden builds in Adelaide.

    “Looking out in 2016 or 2017, the configuration of the sedan -- which Commodore and Malibu are -- you’d need to figure out what sort of engines... What’s the configuration of the vehicle if you were going do it here that would generate enough volume every single month.

    “D [medium] or E [large] segment car, those things are blurring today. The drive configuration -- rear versus front -- is the biggest trigger point for decision making in those two segments right now.”

    Either way, Mr Devereux said the next Cruze would be locked in sooner than the VF Commodore’s replacement.

    “Our timing for our next-generation [smaller] products is a little earlier because of the lifecycle of our Cruze,” he said.

    “So our Cruze has a lifecycle that will end before VF commodore does, which is around the same time as Falcon -- late 2016, early 2017. So we have another decision point quite a bit in front of that on the Cruze... So that's why we have to do that now.”

    Mr Devereux said preparations for the production both new platforms at Elizabeth would begin in about six months – around the same time Holden releases the VF Commodore.


    “We’re doing that on a constant basis -- there’s things happening already on VF [at the plant],” he said.

    “We have dies already changed over. There are VFs out there. We have works that have to be done to prepare the plant for that.

    “And then in the very short term we have works that need to be done for the next-gen products, so in the not-too-distant future it won’t be VF we’re prepping for... We’ll have to be doing work for the next two architectures in the middle of the decade,” Mr Devereux stated.
    http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2012...intref=ed-news
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    SUPERH2377 is offline Forum Contributor Last Online: 06-08-2020 @ 02:42 PM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    yeah I read that but we will wait and see

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    CLUBRED is offline Fair Contributor to the Forums Last Online: 28-09-2021 @ 09:02 AM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    I actually commented in that article about how I felt the commodore was getting too big. Which I think is why people are heading the SUV route, they're generally more useful. I wouldn't mind the commodore shrinking a bit and becomig more niche, and offered back a coupe version - basically killing off everying except SV6 (S), SS and SSV (although I'd prefer it was SSR, as in redline or race with body kit, and SSL Luxury no body kit, basically a Calais). Sadly I think the ute and wagon will die.

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    Marco's Avatar
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    A smaller Commodore wouldn't suit me (I am thinking of getting a Caprice next time around as one option!) but I can see how it would work for a lot of people. So maybe something on the Alpha platform would be the go, which would allow retention of RWD and hence the V8 and Ute options (I mean, a FWD V8 or a FWD ute? unlikely...)

    I think the wagon could survive no matter what platform it's built on, as long as there's a market for non-SUV wagons.
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    CLUBRED is offline Fair Contributor to the Forums Last Online: 28-09-2021 @ 09:02 AM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    A smaller Commodore wouldn't suit me (I am thinking of getting a Caprice next time around as one option!) but I can see how it would work for a lot of people. So maybe something on the Alpha platform would be the go, which would allow retention of RWD and hence the V8 and Ute options (I mean, a FWD V8 or a FWD ute? unlikely...)

    I think the wagon could survive no matter what platform it's built on, as long as there's a market for non-SUV wagons.
    Oh, forgot to mention that the Caprice needs to stay LWB, and maybe sick the wagon back on that.

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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    The next Cadillac CTS and Chevy Camaro are moving to the Alpha platform used on the Cadillac ATS (BMW 3 series competitor). In the case of the CTS the platform is stretched compared with the ATS to make the CTS comparable with the BMW 5 series which is pretty much Commodore sized. If there is to be a Commodore after 2018 it would have to go to the Alpha platform and it would be doubtful if there was to be a LWB version. Cadillac's large (Caprice sized) vehicle is the XTS which is Front Wheel Drive and is based on a stretched Epsilon platform as per the Chevy Malibu.

    None of what Devereaux said confirms that there actually will be a Commodore after 2018, the second car line is more likely to be a Malibu. I saw in the Age that they were speculating that it could be the Captiva so maybe that instead.

    I thinbk the best we could hope for is that the Chevrolet SS Performance is a success such that GM chooses to build a new model Commodore in the US post 2018 and they export it back to us and benefit from the currency.

    Cheers, Matthew
    I spent most of my money on unreliable cars and less reliable women, the rest I wasted.
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    Xjas is offline Forum Contributor Last Online: 06-02-2025 @ 09:25 AM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Will be interesting to see how this pans out, the Australian government kicks in a lot of money to the both Holden and Ford and I have to think part of the reason they stump up so much cash is the public perception that the money is being used to build the "Australian car" ie. the Falcon and Commodore, if the Falcon and Commodore are phased out in favor of a locally built copy of car designed overseas and manufactured overseas I wonder how long it will take for the general public to start getting fed up with $250 million dollar a pop cash injections to keep the car industy afloat in Australia.

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    planetdavo is offline Rarely Contributes to the Forum Last Online: 01-10-2014 @ 07:44 PM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Everyone is simply trying to be the first to predict Holden's future options.
    I'll give my predictions.
    Good luck if it's even rear wheel drive, and totally forget any chance of a smaller mid size rear wheel drive car. Australia is about to pay the price for many people simply being clones of the residents of many other countries. We have lost our unique identity and pride for supporting Australian, so most don't look at our unique cars anymore.
    As they have the right to do, but when there is no manufacturing industry left in the country, they will only have themselves to blame for the future generations having very few jobs in this industry.

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    jc_sv8's Avatar
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Something sized between the Cruze and VE would be ideal. (Torana?)

    I only need five things...

    Gen5 V8, 7spd manual, LSD RWD, 2 door, hatchback.

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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Quote Originally Posted by planetdavo View Post
    Everyone is simply trying to be the first to predict Holden's future options.
    I'll give my predictions.
    Good luck if it's even rear wheel drive, and totally forget any chance of a smaller mid size rear wheel drive car. Australia is about to pay the price for many people simply being clones of the residents of many other countries. We have lost our unique identity and pride for supporting Australian, so most don't look at our unique cars anymore.
    As they have the right to do, but when there is no manufacturing industry left in the country, they will only have themselves to blame for the future generations having very few jobs in this industry.
    Yes, that's it really. Hardly anyone really wants a large RWD sedan anymore, sadly... Fleets would rather have a (not so) small 4cyl now, families would rather have an SUV or crew cab ute. The Jap vans killed the panel van for cost of operation and interior space.

    I was at the local Holden dealer the other day and inside they had a couple HSVs but outside were nearly all Cruzes, Captivas and Colorados, I could see one Commodore and that was it.

    One issue that Holden will face I think are profit margins. Think back in 2000 when Holden were selling 100,000 VX's a year, the price range was $30K to $70K and then up to $95K for the 300kw models. in 2018 assuming they will be selling the Cruze and Malibu the range will $24K to barely $50K tops. Even if Holden sell 100,000 Cruzes and Malibus a year, it won't be for anywhere near the same profit.

    Cheers, Matthew
    I spent most of my money on unreliable cars and less reliable women, the rest I wasted.
    W.C. Fields

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    planetdavo is offline Rarely Contributes to the Forum Last Online: 01-10-2014 @ 07:44 PM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Quote Originally Posted by jc_sv8 View Post
    Something sized between the Cruze and VE would be ideal. (Torana?)

    I only need five things...

    Gen5 V8, 7spd manual, LSD RWD, 2 door, hatchback.
    Not a hatch, but Camaro is as close as you'll ever get to that wish list.

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    steve_t is offline Fair Contributor to the Forums Last Online: 13-03-2014 @ 07:43 PM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Do we really need a 7 speed manual?

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    planetdavo is offline Rarely Contributes to the Forum Last Online: 01-10-2014 @ 07:44 PM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Jag530G View Post
    Yes, that's it really. Hardly anyone really wants a large RWD sedan anymore, sadly... Fleets would rather have a (not so) small 4cyl now, families would rather have an SUV or crew cab ute. The Jap vans killed the panel van for cost of operation and interior space.

    I was at the local Holden dealer the other day and inside they had a couple HSVs but outside were nearly all Cruzes, Captivas and Colorados, I could see one Commodore and that was it.

    One issue that Holden will face I think are profit margins. Think back in 2000 when Holden were selling 100,000 VX's a year, the price range was $30K to $70K and then up to $95K for the 300kw models. in 2018 assuming they will be selling the Cruze and Malibu the range will $24K to barely $50K tops. Even if Holden sell 100,000 Cruzes and Malibus a year, it won't be for anywhere near the same profit.

    Cheers, Matthew
    Pretty much.
    Dealers are being "forced" to take Commodore stocks so they aren't sitting on Holden grass. Most have them hiding away somewhere.
    If Holden and Ford management spoke totally honestly, I reckon they would tell you how "happy" they would be to end ground up locally developed vehicles. It's only the political and public distaste for the idea that has prevented it happening- even if most of Joe Public doesn't even buy them anymore! So much development expense for, in world terms, a fairly small profit return. A lot of cost of the recent cars has been pulled out by sourcing parts from China in particular. Stuff is so cheap now compared to formally Australian made goods. Holden couldn't possibly pull the old prices (adjusted up for inflation) these days. With over 50 brands competing for one million sales, it's dog eat dog out there.
    Much easier to be part of an international team developing a car, as the costs are spread far more widely, so perhaps less profit per car, but much less development budget to begin with. We can all see it coming...

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    planetdavo is offline Rarely Contributes to the Forum Last Online: 01-10-2014 @ 07:44 PM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_t View Post
    Do we really need a 7 speed manual?
    When they get a seven speed, some people will want an eight speed...

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    jc_sv8's Avatar
    jc_sv8 is offline Fair Contributor to the Forums Last Online: 20-07-2025 @ 06:22 PM
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    Re: 2017/18 Commodore not Zeta platform

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_t View Post
    Do we really need a 7 speed manual?
    Dunno, but they are showing up in more and more euros, even the new vet will have one.

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