The slow death of our great Australian cars

[zorro]

You are saying from VB-VZ that the cars shared nothing besides a roofline? Peter Hannenberger pushed Holden ahead with this car when introduced, yes changes over the years have been made but essentially the cars are same chassis and share a lot of the components. It was a no brainer that we needed a different engine & suspension package and it was done.

I've driven a VT Omega with a 2.2 ecotec across Southern Ireland. it shared same IRS suspension (which is an almost identical large scale of early 80's BMWs), parts of interior, doors and looking under the bonnet was similar. How can you say that the components at both sides of the worlds disposal were unable to be utilised?

[C4B]

but the question I pose is whether it handles better than, for example, a Porsche Panamera

The "question" is whether in 2012, a 4WD is a viable alternative to a COMMODORE.

Those of us who have both at our disposal can say with 1st hand knowledge, Absolutely YES.

And the sales figures back up that view quite conclusively, so keeping the blinkers on isn't going to change the fact.

[silvervyss]

You are saying from VB-VZ that the cars shared nothing besides a roofline? Peter Hannenberger pushed Holden ahead with this car when introduced, yes changes over the years have been made but essentially the cars are same chassis and share a lot of the components. It was a no brainer that we needed a different engine & suspension package and it was done.

I've driven a VT Omega with a 2.2 ecotec across Southern Ireland. it shared same IRS suspension (which is an almost identical large scale of early 80's BMWs), parts of interior, doors and looking under the bonnet was similar. How can you say that the components at both sides of the worlds disposal were unable to be utilised?

My uncles 81 Opel senator (vh) overseas came with irs, we had to wait until the vp.

[zorro]

Hey radial tuned suspension was all the rage back in the day here in oz

[VYBerlinaV8]

Hey radial tuned suspension was all the rage back in the day here in oz

Radial Tuned Suspension was a huge step forward. My HZ wagon handled better than my LH Torana ever did!

[Solone]

To save the local cars the government would be wise to heavily inventivise business to buy them. Maybe a tax concession for buying commodore. Then it wouls make sense for a business to buy one over a camry or Mazda 3. The government dont lose out as it would maintain employment in the industry and they clip the employees through PAYG and then the car makers and suppliers chain through company tax.

The average joe buys a second hand commodore not a new one, so there needs to be more around.

[sjhugh]

To save the local cars the government would be wise to heavily inventivise business to buy them. Maybe a tax concession for buying commodore. Then it wouls make sense for a business to buy one over a camry or Mazda 3. The government dont lose out as it would maintain employment in the industry and they clip the employees through PAYG and then the car makers and suppliers chain through company tax.

We could call it the Commodore Lada and the 2013 model can be almost identical to the yet to be released 3013 model.

The average joe buys a second hand commodore not a new one, so there needs to be more around.

The average joe can only buy as many second hand vehicles as the un-average joe buys new. It makes you wonder which is one is really average.


.

[Angeldust]

similar thread on AFF at the moment, and the consensus is that simply the price of Aussie cars is a big issue.

The average bloke buys in the 20-30K bracket... nwith base model falcadore's at ~35K plus etc especially for the
more desirable models is too much. You may argue that cars are now cheaper to buy now then ever before, and
this is true, but so are the imports. Im 37 and have never bought a new car. The closest i've come is the VY SS i
had (traded in on a 6 year old clubbie with 47K on the clock 3 months ago) which had 33K klms on it and was just on 4 years old
and cost me ~30K in 2007.

Also in the 20-30K bracket, there's a plethora of vehicles to choose from. Cars like the mazda3 are bigger and roomier
then ever, and toyota camry's being available at 28990 driveaway at 0% interest, and you can see there's a problem.

[bozodos]

looking at the bigger picture, and the smarter man, he knows that a falcodore will depreciate half of its value within 5 years and purchase accordingly.

[Jag530G]

similar thread on AFF at the moment, and the consensus is that simply the price of Aussie cars is a big issue.

The average bloke buys in the 20-30K bracket... nwith base model falcadore's at ~35K plus etc especially for the
more desirable models is too much. Also in the 20-30K bracket, there's a plethora of vehicles to choose from. Cars like the mazda3 are bigger and roomier
then ever, and toyota camry's being available at 28990 driveaway at 0% interest, and you can see there's a problem.

.

Not really , the SUVs that have been belting the Falcadore are all well north of $30K, Prado $55K+, Kluger $40K+, Honda CR-V and Mazda CX-5 $30K+, Decent spec Hilux crewcab 4wd well over $40K+ etc. Yes the Falcadore has lost sales to the Mazda 3 but is mainly fleets who have owrked out they don't need to be paying the running costs of a 6 when a 4 will do.

The real issue is that hardly anyone wants a large sedan. I sincerely think that if Ford and Holden were to cut their prices for a base Falcon and Commodore to $29,990 drivaway they'ed struggle to sell an extra 1,000 cars a month. It isn't the price that's the issue. It isn't the number of cylinders that's the issue. It's the type of car that's the issue. Bluntly, in the 2012 Australian new car market, large sedans suck balls. Vast majority of buyers want who would otherwise look at a Falcadore are buying SUVs and they don't care that SUV's are slower, they're not slower by much. A Kluger does 0-100 in 8 seconds, fast enough for the buyers (hell, that's what a VP-VS SS 5.0L did!). They don't care that SUV's don't handle as good. Mum doesn't drive at 10/10ths, let alone 5/10ths on the school run.

Cheers, Matthew

[Jag530G]

looking at the bigger picture, and the smarter man, he knows that a falcodore will depreciate half of its value within 5 years and purchase accordingly.

A Falcadore will do half its value in around 3 years. And with the smell of death around them the depreciation will get worse in the future. Problem is of course that not only do new car buyers not want a Falcadore, neither do second hand car buyers. The same reasons that SUVs are attractive new apply when they are 5 years old too.

Cheers, Matthew

[bozodos]

I mean that those who would otherwise maybe buy those cars new, tend to hold off until they have dropped some value, especially if they intend to modify.

Second hand LS powered commodores are some of the best value for money 'performance' cars getting around these days, especially in manual form. Same goes for XR6Ts.

[VYBerlinaV8]

looking at the bigger picture, and the smarter man, he knows that a falcodore will depreciate half of its value within 5 years and purchase accordingly.

This is one of the major reasons (but not the only one) that I won't buy another new V8. The time to buy one, I reckon, will be when it's announced that final models are coming out. I'll then wait and see what second hand ones cost, and maybe buy then.

The other reason I'm not so keen is build quality. It's been almost two years now sinice I swapped my VY for a new WRX. The thing that has surprised me the most is just how reliable the WRX has been. No warranty claims at all. No funny noises. Nothing stopped working. My VY, on the other hand, had all of those things.

[Big_Valven]

See, I had an opposite experience. My VX was taken to hell and back, thrashed the guts out of it, wrote it off twice, it never gave me a single breakdown in 4 years.

My Japanese made Mazda6 lunched an entire engine, busted a radiator, air con stopped working, clutch issues... About $4000 worth of breakdown / mechanical failure work was done over 2 years.

[mickeyVX350]

I'm not sure that this is an argument restricted to cars.

Australian "snobbery" has a lot to do with it :

We call Holdens and Fords "bogan" while praising the Euro!

VB, Draught, and in some cases, beer in general is considered to be "bogan"

We refuse to accept that anything local is of anywhere near the quality or prestige of something that was made somewhere else...

We love to tell people how "high class" our tastes are...

So in the end, we only have ourselves to blame, and when we realise what we do actually have here, it will be too late!

Until then, I'll drive my Holdens, support my local manufacturer, I'll drink Draught beer, and I'll buy Australian where I can, and I can afford to buy imported.