VF Commodore revealed - Official details and pics- Part 2

[Jag530G]

Whichever way you look at it, it's a bloody good looking bit of kit and imo represents outstanding value; it'll be a bloody shame if these cars die a slow death. I am mostly not a Ford fan, but spending some time in a 2010 FG G6ET recently, I was uber impressed with the car, build quality, power, economy, looks, size etc. And for 30K for a second hand unit with low kays it was a steal compared to anything international that even comes close, this included some Audi (R)S models I've been lucky enough to be treated too. I can't wait to see a VF in the flesh. What's the word on the engine line up L77 or L99?? and for the sixes, are we finally going to see the 'Torana' donk ie V6TT. Well done Holden.

The TTV6 is coming in next year's Cadillac CTS, so maybe (but I doubt it) in late 2014/2015.

Cheers, Matthew

[Plenty]

A close up shot of the Calais V seems to show the active shift still on the shifter as it is currently is.

Attachment 1926

Yeah on the SS-V though there is a good chance of it being paddle shift!

[Marco]

Not this TTV6 stuff again. Who is going to want it when the V8 exists? People who want a car smack in between the SV6 and SS for price and performance, and want to listen to a V6 moo rather than V8 rumble?

This isn't Ford, we have a good V8 so there's no need to waste effort on sixes.

[Jag530G]

Not this TTV6 stuff again. Who is going to want it when the V8 exists? People who want a car smack in between the SV6 and SS for price and performance, and want to listen to a V6 moo rather than V8 rumble?

This isn't Ford, we have a good V8 so there's no need to waste effort on sixes.

Yep, not much point in the case of Holden.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Not this TTV6 stuff again. Who is going to want it when the V8 exists? People who want a car smack in between the SV6 and SS for price and performance, and want to listen to a V6 moo rather than V8 rumble?

This isn't Ford, we have a good V8 so there's no need to waste effort on sixes.

I can see your point, but now that ford have a cracking V8 and a great 6T option it opens up more variety for the customer. I'd like to see a TTV6 in the holden line up. If these are supposedly the last of the big cars, i'd love to see both holden and ford go nuts with some hypo 6 turbos and charged 8s. Can only be a good thing for us! I'd be more than happy to own a ford / holden V8 and have the option of a 6T from holden and ford for the wife. It means i won't have to drive a boring car ever again! Best of both worlds if you ask me

[Jag530G]

I can see your point, but now that ford have a cracking V8 and a great 6T option it opens up more variety for the customer. I'd like to see a TTV6 in the holden line up. If these are supposedly the last of the big cars, i'd love to see both holden and ford go nuts with some hypo 6 turbos and charged 8s. Can only be a good thing for us! I'd be more than happy to own a ford / holden V8 and have the option of a 6T from holden and ford for the wife. It means i won't have to drive a boring car ever again! Best of both worlds if you ask me

The problem is that the TTV6 will put out similar, probably a bit more power than the current 6.0L V8, so it will simply cannabalise sales of the V8 and I contend the V8 is a cheaper and therefore more profitable engine than the TTV6 will be. Look at Ford, they don't offer an atmo V8 which in the Mustang puts out around 285Kw, pretty much the same as the I6T, so Ford haven't bothered. Yes they offer a supercharged V8 as it is another step up. But holden do the steps by offering a 6.0L V8 and then HSV offer a 6.2L V8, no room for the TTV6.

You could argue that HSV could offer the TTV6 putting out say under 300Kw, then the LT1 at 335KW and then something above, that would make a nice range but is there any hope that HSV would sell enough TTV6s to justify the engineering cost? I don't think so.

I think the TTV6 would be a belter of an engine, especially for the aftermarket modders, but I don't see it happening in the Commodore. Hopefully Cadillac will be here soon and we can buy a TTV6 ATS-V.

Cheers, Matthew

[Jac001]

Pick 1: a 3.6L TTv6 or a 6.0LV8.

There is no point offering both.

If holden were to go down the turbo v6 route i suspect it would abe a small capacity version like a 2.8LV6T to replace the 3.6L v6NA.

[C4B]

You could argue that HSV could offer the TTV6 putting out say under 300Kw,

They could call it the HSV XU6, and the half dozen suckers who buy it could tell everyone they have the most limited edition HSV of all time.

If there were no V8 options I'm sure HSV would jump back into a V6, but while they have nice strong V8's to play with I reckon the 6 cylinder option will stay on the scrap heap with all the XU6's.

[duke5700]

TTV6 is easy, economy of a 6, performance of an 8.

2 seconds into the aftermarket world, put more boost into them and suddenly they become a cult car like the VL Turbo and the I6T from the Ford camp.

[C4B]

TTV6 is easy, economy of a 6, performance of an 8.

This is very true, but for your average HSV buyer, fuel economy isn't a selling point, so in their head it reads:

Credibility of a 6, sound of a 6, re-sale of a 6, price of an 8.

When you look at cult 6's, have a look at the V8 alternative available in that car at that time.

In the VL's you could have the 150kw EFI turbo 6 or a 122kw Carby'd V8. If you wanted to jump ship to Ford, you could have a Crossflow 4.1 Straight 6 only. Not hard to see why the VL 6 became a cult car.

Similar story with the BA, the V8 they had at the time not only didn't put out any power at low revs but it wouldn't rev either.....

[Jag530G]

They could call it the HSV XU6, and the half dozen suckers who buy it could tell everyone they have the most limited edition HSV of all time.

C'mon, even the XU6 isn't as rare and cool as the Astra SV1800!!!

[JimmyXR6T04]

So, the main vibe i'm getting is that the V8 will be threatened? There's a whole new generation of people growing up these days who don't much care for a V8 (lots have been brain washed green)... All i'm saying is, i'd consider one if they did it. At present if i want a big car with plenty of grunt from a 6, my only real option is ford.

A TTV6 that uses less fuel, weighs less, and has more power (especially if tuned), would be a winner in many peoples eyes. I wouldn't suggest HSV take it on board, i'd leave it for holden. HSV can be reserved for the thumping V8s. A TTV6 model would line up next to an SS for further variety, with similar power outputs.

It may not work, but if holden/ford are really coming to an end with their big cars in 2016, i'd love to see them go out with a bang and create some real sweet cars with great engines.

I'd love a TTV6, if for nothing else than the potential tuning ability. Hence, why i am still thinking of a GS/GT as my next car instead of the technology packed holden. I love the look of the new calais, and love my caprice, but i still can't stop thinking about the huge amounts of cheap power that the ford offers... I'd love the ford V8 in the VF calais!

[Jag530G]

Another issue I wonder about is power outputs. The LFX in the VE2 put out 210Kw but in the Camaro it is 241KW and Cadillac it is around 239Kw. Will Holden bump up the power output initially for the VF or wait until the new V8 comes along in 2014? Right now having a 240KW V6 wouldn't leave much of a gap to the 260KW V8.

Cheers, Matthew

[redvxr8clubby]

I can't see any significant engine changes happening, the VF isn't going to hit the street until at least May, the VF is only going to last until end of 2016, not much more than 3 years production, it isn't that long ago that the V6's were adapted to E85 (not even a year in the case of the 3.6). Also reengineered LPG engine. The VF is to revive interest and sales until scheduled end of this platform in 2016. I can't see they would do the engineering work for something that is going to have a lifespan of 3 years. By all accounts after end of 2016 there will be no rear drive V6 or V8 Commodore, maybe the Commodore name will carry on, but Commodore as we know it won't be in the showrooms in 4 years time. I figure 2015 and 2016 V8's will have a pretty good resale not unlike the tonners about 10 years ago when there is no equivalent being manufactured any more. Personally from what I have seen of the VF so far I wouldn't mind a Calais V, but as new ones are probably about $60K, I am thinking a few years down the track, a good used one would be great value.

[JimmyXR6T04]

If 2016 really is the end of the big rear wheel drive falcons and commodores, i'd certainly consider a brand new version of either a ford/holden or both. Particularly if it's something special. Would be very keen on one of the last 5.0 GTs.