VF SS and SSV to have 6.2ltr

[Ghosn]

I can see how some people are not happy that the VF is coming out with the same engine as its predecessor for now. But on the other hand, they have at least looked after current HSV owners and not totally killed off resale values for us. Imagine the new SS came out with the 6.2l LS3? Then you would wonder why you would buy a 2nd hand HSV over a new SS. At least for now, the VE HSV brigade still have a few goodies over a new SS.

Even then, it's not all bad for the VF SS in the engine department. With the weight loss and much improved fuel economy and I'm sure some suspension tuning, the VF SS will still hold its own over the VE SS on the road or track.

[jaykay]

VF Omega...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...count=1&ref=nf

[dotocomo]

I am an avid Holden supporter and have driven one since 1987 (VL) - every model they try to upgrade right?

just really disappointed the new VF has the same 'old' VE engine - i am really dismayed with the holden management serving up this cold dish and maybe if there is enough backlash on this they might chnage their mind???

we should not justify holdens poor decision to put old techonolgy into a new car and say you can add a mod to fix their mistake...i keep my car in mint condition and run it out of the box...so why dont you put an LS3 or LT1 in it!!!!!!!

[Troutman]

Notice a pattern?

VS: different engine, same car
VT: different car, same engines
VT II: different V8, same car
VZ: different V6, same car
VZ 06: different V8, same car
VE: different car, same engine
VE SIDI/AFM: different engines, same car
VF: different car, same engines.

[jboy21]

our mate Dowling is at it again: http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226587139606
yeah because an A class and a Commodore are directly comparable.

[Phillshz]

Notice a pattern?

VS: different engine, same car
VT: different car, same engines
VT II: different V8, same car
VZ: different V6, same car
VZ 06: different V8, same car
VE: different car, same engine
VE SIDI/AFM: different engines, same car
VF: different car, same engines.

Correct Troutman. Holden only do a car and engine change if left with no choice. eg: EFI 202 not a viable option for VL due the engineering cost`s with the introduction of ULP.
RB30 engine ridiculously expensive to buy/import due to exchange rate increase during VL`s life, Forcing Holden to search within GM for a replacement for the VN (VN prototypes did run the RB30, indicating the switch to the buick V6 was a late change).

I`d say VF will just carry over, VFII will get L99 as a V8 option and HSV will use the "new" LT1

Cheers Phill

[sjhugh]

All this talk of an engine upgrade later in the life of the VF has put me off a bit.

I had intended to buy a new HSV upon release but not if there is a chance something bigger and better will arrive in 12 months time.

I’ve been stung by this type of action a couple of times before and it kills the resale of those vehicles with the superseded engine.

I hope my attitude will not be typical of other intending buyers otherwise the sales on release will suffer for it.

Even more so as the new VF appears to be targeting the performance and/or the luxury market where potential buyers in these categories tend to be more focused on the specifics of what they want and of what’s on offer and what may be around the corner.

In other words, they are buying these cars as cheaper alternatives to the Euro performance/luxury models and are in the know.

I understand this type of running update is typical of car manufacturers but as this is now a struggling model with a reputation of being a dinosaur, maybe Holden should have gone all out and used the opportunity to make a significant break from the outgoing VE.

Get the buyers in the cars while you can, don’t leave them second guessing and possibly deciding to wait and see what may happen further down the line.

By then something better may come along, especially if the Euros and Japs follow recent history and release vehicles with far more tech and leave the Commodore in the old school class as has been the case with the VE.

Playing catch up in the world of manufacturing has always been a recipe for sale failure.

When this happens the only way to get customers is to release the product into the market at bottom of the basement prices. Something I don’t think Holden will want to do.



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[calais190]

VF Omega...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...count=1&ref=nf

It's not bad. Possibly a little too Holden epica though?

[steve_t]

All this talk of an engine upgrade later in the life of the VF has put me off a bit.

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Same......

[Jag530G]

I am an avid Holden supporter and have driven one since 1987 (VL) - every model they try to upgrade right?

just really disappointed the new VF has the same 'old' VE engine - i am really dismayed with the holden management serving up this cold dish and maybe if there is enough backlash on this they might chnage their mind??? so why dont you put an LS3 or LT1 in it!!!!!!!

Because the LT1 isn't even available and the LS3 belongs to HSV, if Holden use it what would HSV put in the Clubsport? And don't say LSA, no ones going to get an LSA powered HSV for Clubsport money. $100K LSA GTS? That's more like it.

Rarely do any manufacturers do both an all new car and all new engine at the same time, too risky, better to bed down the new car and then add the new engine later when you've dealt with any issues. Also the issue of engineering resources, by spreading out the body and engine upgrades you keep fewer engineers busy all the time rather than have a mad panic to develop a new car for a couple years and then sacking every one for a couple years because you've got nothing on. There is also the marketing angle, engine upgrades are usually reserved for a facelift as a way of boosting flagging sales as the model gets old. I'm not just talking about Holden BTW; BMW, MB, Jaguar all do it this way too, spreads out the risk, cost and interest in the product.

Looking at Holden's history, the all new 6 cyl has come late in a model generations life. Red motor didn't vome with EJ, it came with EH. Blue motor didn't come with the VB it came with the VC. the VN V6 was the new car/new engine exception due to exchange rates killing the RB30E, the Ecotec came with the VS the last of the VN-VS series. The Alloytec came with the VZ, the last of the VT-VZ series.

In fact only the FX and VN are the only times an all new model featured an all new 6 cyl engine.

Cheers, Matthew

[sjhugh]

engine upgrades are usually reserved for a facelift as a way of boosting flagging sales as the model gets old. I'm not just talking about Holden BTW; BMW, MB, Jaguar all do it this way too, spreads out the risk, cost and interest in the product.

I agree with much of what you say but that doesn’t mean the business case of upgrading mid model is right for this particular release.

Manufacturers don’t always wait for a facelift to introduce a new engine for a model range.

I have a BMW 135i M and a MB C63 and both models were released with new engines from the start.

The C63 only ever got power upgrades with limited edition models and the recent facelift, not new engines.

The new model M 135i (hatchback) now has a single turbo where the last model (coupe) had the twin turbo version.

The AMG crowd are waiting to see if the all new C63 will have the NA 5.5litre V8 or the twin turbo version as a replacement for the old 6.3litre.

These new engines in these new cars at the time of their release played a huge part in the sales success for both models, the same goes for the BMW 335i.

I tend to believe that due to the declining sales for the Commodore (lost fleet sales) coupled with the buying public’s perceived idea that the Commodore lags behind the rest of the market and has exceeded its use by date, Holden should have taken all steps to stop the downward spiral. Going by the lacklustre reception to the new model, a facelift alone won’t save it in the eyes of the buying public.

The SS as a sports/performance model needs 300fwkw otherwise the rest of the performance world is running away from them with more HP and/or weight reductions.

Hopefully Holden will see the need to significantly upgrade the power output for those who these days are seen as the main purchasers of Commodores, that being the V8 lovers.


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[JJW501]

I can see how some people are not happy that the VF is coming out with the same engine as its predecessor for now. But on the other hand, they have at least looked after current HSV owners and not totally killed off resale values for us. Imagine the new SS came out with the 6.2l LS3? Then you would wonder why you would buy a 2nd hand HSV over a new SS. At least for now, the VE HSV brigade still have a few goodies over a new SS.

Even then, it's not all bad for the VF SS in the engine department. With the weight loss and much improved fuel economy and I'm sure some suspension tuning, the VF SS will still hold its own over the VE SS on the road or track.

I think it's a bit like giving your missus a poor effort in bed because you want to keep something in the bag for next time.

Give it all now! Somthing better will come along to keep us interested next time.

JJW

[Surfnturf]

I give it all I got cause might not get many more goes !!

[planetdavo]

I'll no doubt upset a few with this, but...ahhh, whatever.
Cars start becoming "old" the moment they are purchased. There will ALWAYS be a newer one, better one, more attractive one, bigger one, uglier one, or whatever around the corner.
If you care this much, perhaps you shouldn't EVER buy a brand new car. That way, you will NEVER have the next "soon to be replaced" new thing on the block.
Depends if you want everyone to know you have the latest new thing...or you just want to enjoy what you bought for your own needs and your own pleasure...

[JJW501]

I'll no doubt upset a few with this, but...ahhh, whatever.
Cars start becoming "old" the moment they are purchased. There will ALWAYS be a newer one, better one, more attractive one, bigger one, uglier one, or whatever around the corner.
If you care this much, perhaps you shouldn't EVER buy a brand new car. That way, you will NEVER have the next "soon to be replaced" new thing on the block.
Depends if you want everyone to know you have the latest new thing...or you just want to enjoy what you bought for your own needs and your own pleasure...

Huh? Is this why commodore and falcon are going broke?

Why try coz we will do something better next time?

I am not at all sentimental about anything related to technology. Hell, I thought a Nokia 5100 was awesome a few years ago. But Nokia buyers moved on and so are Holden buyers.

There should be a new drivetrain. If the I-phone came out with a modern look and 5100 interface how many would they sell?

JJW