Supercharged HSV?

[duke5700]

Why did you buy a Monaro Davo?

[planetdavo]

Yeah I believe they need that hero model to inspire kids all over again to want to buy them, so many blokes I know grew up with Walkinshaws and VN Grp A's on their walls as posters. A lot of them grew up to buy new HSV's, some of them even greedy enough to own both.
.

The world has changed. Most of today's kids would rather have "cool" tech toys than a seriously uncool "old school" hot car like their dad wanted.

[duke5700]

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that HSV/Holden can do both.. EDI and all the rest of the crap + a reasonable drive with that hero status engine. At the moment it seems like a tarted up pony, not the refined hwy bruiser it could be.

One of my parents owns a VE LS3 Manual, I've driven it multiple times.. each time I've walked away just feeling well blah.. it doesn't involve me, I don't feel it and I don't want it. Yet put me in a GTO or even a late model Monaro and you can feel it when you drive it. It just has that I'm connected to the car feel. It has no soul might be the word I am looking for.

[planetdavo]

Why did you buy a Monaro Davo?

Because I could. I put my money where my mouth was, rather than just "saying" they had to...

[duke5700]

The reason, not the fiscal side of things.. why have you not bought a HSV? Why did you not buy a GTO or the GTS in the coupe guise?

Same deal.

Because I could. I put my money where my mouth was, rather than just "saying" they had to...

[planetdavo]

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that HSV/Holden can do both.. EDI and all the rest of the crap + a reasonable drive with that hero status engine. At the moment it seems like a tarted up pony, not the refined hwy bruiser it could be.

One of my parents owns a VE LS3 Manual, I've driven it multiple times.. each time I've walked away just feeling well blah.. it doesn't involve me, I don't feel it and I don't want it. Yet put me in a GTO or even a late model Monaro and you can feel it when you drive it. It just has that I'm connected to the car feel. It has no soul might be the word I am looking for.

For sure HSV "could" produce almost any kind of new car (within reason of course).
The issue is that all this sort of stuff costs SERIOUS amounts of money for a new car manufacturer. It's not like a tuner bolting an engine in and off you go.
Most new car buyers want seriously better levels of refinement in their new performance cars than the older models. Time doesn't stand still. It's a whole other subject as to whether the current time pressured, always "connected", stressed out world we live in is at all "better" than past era's. I have my doubts, but one thing is for sure. This current era is killing our local performance product.

[planetdavo]

The reason, not the fiscal side of things.. why have you not bought a HSV? Why did you not buy a GTO or the GTS in the coupe guise?

Same deal.

Not really. I had both options available in my budget. I simply preferred the pure shape of the Monaro. A bigger dyno figure wasn't a factor.
Get my point? Most buyers don't really care about an extra 20kW's or whatever. They buy what suits them the most. Manufacturer's try to target what will get them the result they are aiming for. Manufacturers know that most people who are obsessed with performance will just go out and modify their new Holden/HSV anyway, so there's no point taking a financial bath just to please a few hardcores...or people that are all talk but no action.

[duke5700]

People don't care about dyno figures, but Holden/HSV increment them continually.. come on Davo... what financial bath? engines were in house, emissions data was available. They even bolt in the same hole and have drivetrain information built on the same platform. You don't get gifted that very often as far as engineering data goes.

So why have you not bought a new HSV? No good? Monaro is better? Why have you not stumped up the coin and saved the faithful? Quick back peddle. Or come up with some other gibberish and slide a little sideways? thought of running for a political position?

There is literally no point even bothering with you. I could tell you the screen is blue and everyone else would say the same thing and you will argue like mindless gnome that it is red despite the bleeding obvious. I'll let the others continue to bait you. As per usual the interest in your gibberish lasted about 5 mins.

Not really. I had both options available in my budget. I simply preferred the pure shape of the Monaro. A bigger dyno figure wasn't a factor.
Get my point? Most buyers don't really care about an extra 20kW's or whatever. They buy what suits them the most. Manufacturer's try to target what will get them the result they are aiming for. Manufacturers know that most people who are obsessed with performance will just go out and modify their new Holden/HSV anyway, so there's no point taking a financial bath just to please a few hardcores...or people that are all talk but no action.

[C4B]

People don't care about dyno figures.....

If that were the case HSV wouldn't have survived past VN.

Power output figures sell cars..... Anyone that doesn't realise that should be selling photocopy paper!

[planetdavo]

People don't care about dyno figures, but Holden/HSV increment them continually.. come on Davo... what financial bath? engines were in house, emissions data was available. They even bolt in the same hole and have drivetrain information built on the same platform. You don't get gifted that very often as far as engineering data goes.

So why have you not bought a new HSV? No good? Monaro is better? Why have you not stumped up the coin and saved the faithful? Quick back peddle. Or come up with some other gibberish and slide a little sideways? thought of running for a political position?

There is literally no point even bothering with you. I could tell you the screen is blue and everyone else would say the same thing and you will argue like mindless gnome that it is red despite the bleeding obvious. I'll let the others continue to bait you. As per usual the interest in your gibberish lasted about 5 mins.

Settle down fella.
Just so you know, I have the Monaro AND a company car already. I don't need to have a THIRD car in the driveway just to please a couple of people on the internet.
The world operates on RATIONAL business decisions. Desn't matter if it's me and my two cars, or a car manufacturer planning their product range. Spend beyond your means, and you're in the crapper.

[planetdavo]

If that were the case HSV wouldn't have survived past VN.

Power output figures sell cars..... Anyone that doesn't realise that should be selling photocopy paper!

Far less than it used to. That's why I said times have changed. It's why HSV still outsell FPV, or Golf GTi outsells Focus ST/Megane RS265/whatever else you care to name in this country in that class.
Most buyers want far more than something powerful to brag about at the pub. The above examples have the lower powered car as the sales champion. People are more likely to try and flash their Euro snob keyring over an imported beer or a skinny latte at an upmarket cafe these days...
Cars have increasingly become an appliance. Many people just don't care like the more hardcore element on internet forums do.

[IJ.]

Because they never do......

Can't build "specials" C4 the Parts Monkeys have a hard enough time finding numbers for existing cars .....

[planetdavo]

People don't care about dyno figures, but Holden/HSV increment them continually.. come on Davo... what financial bath? engines were in house, emissions data was available. They even bolt in the same hole and have drivetrain information built on the same platform. You don't get gifted that very often as far as engineering data goes.

For everyone on here's knowledge (and obviously this fella too), it costs a manufacturer about ONE MILLION dollars just to introduce a different ESC calibration for a different suspension package to the other (otherwise similar) models in your range.
It also costs MILLIONS to refine the NVH characteristics of a new driveline to be acceptable to a new car buyer. That's on top of the MILLIONS to install and durability test a new driveline.
It just keeps adding up. Think that limited run of 100 hi-po new HSV's is "just a cheap and easy engine install"?
Think again!

[IJ.]

For everyone on here's knowledge (and obviously this fella too), it costs a manufacturer about ONE MILLION dollars just to introduce a different ESC calibration for a different suspension package to the other (otherwise similar) models in your range.
It also costs MILLIONS to refine the NVH characteristics of a new driveline to be acceptable to a new car buyer. That's on top of the MILLIONS to install and durability test a new driveline.
It just keeps adding up. Think that limited run of 100 hi-po new HSV's is "just a cheap and easy engine install"?
Think again!

dr-evil-one-million-dollars.jpg

This is what I hear in my mind...

Is this a fact or a "Daveism"??

[Toddler78]

Davo, with out trolling through your past posts i am sure you have posted on here that hsv's sales have been the best they have ever been so they are obviously doing something right however as the names sake suggest they are "holden special vehicles" there was a time where that ment something.hsv arnt in the business of appealing to the masses (otherwise they would be building camerys) their business case is to appeal to the niche' performance enthuesiest which is a very small market, because of this i think it is a bad business case to not listen to their customers. Im not saying to put a sc engine in as standard but to offer an option would be nice. What does hsv offer the potential car buyer?? A tarted up ss? To me its not much different to the used car yards slapping on $1000 fibreglass bodykits and stickers on base model v6 commodores and asking a premium for it. Before you say kw mean nothing etc etc , to their core market it means alot and if you dont understand that then i dont think your qualified to offer opinions on business case