Suspension advice for VY SS

[surfwagon]

From everyones experience:
If I lowered my car 30mm on the front and 35mm on the rear would I need my guards rolled?

The tyres that I'm using at the moment are 245/35/19 and the wheels have an offset of +45

It would definitely be beneficial, I have the same size tyres on 8.5" rims with same offset and my rears rubbed with HSV suspension.

[mechatron]

Thanks for the reply Surfwagon. I was really hoping that I wouldn't have to roll the guards.

Did the rubbing only occur when your car was fully loaded with people? Or did it rub with just yourself in the car?

[185iboy]

Go the Bilsteins/Kings without a doubt you won't regret it. Get the spring rates matched to the shock and car and you wont have a problem. Also agree with the above info mentioned by VZ_V8.

[mechatron]

Go the Bilsteins/Kings without a doubt you won't regret it. Get the spring rates matched to the shock and car and you wont have a problem. Also agree with the above info mentioned by VZ_V8.

Thanks mate. For days I've been tossing up between Konis and Bilsteins. After lots & lots of reading I think I'll be disappointed if I dont go with the Bilsteins....So Stage 1 will be Bilstein B8s, super low King springs and new rubber top mounts. I'll see if I'm happy with this combo and later on I can do bushes (combination of rubber and poly), F&R sway bars and a camber kit if needed.

I can get the Bilstein B8s, super low King springs and new rubber top mounts for $1465 supply only which seems pretty decent

What is the going rate for the installation of the above (Stage 1) with a good wheel alignment?

[surfwagon]

Thanks for the reply Surfwagon. I was really hoping that I wouldn't have to roll the guards.

Did the rubbing only occur when your car was fully loaded with people? Or did it rub with just yourself in the car?

Only with people in the back, Id always joke they were too fat.

[mechatron]

Only with people in the back, Id always joke they were too fat.

Lol...it would be even funnier if the passengers in the back were women

[mechatron]

Just thinking out loud.....When I start to think about all the money I've spent on my car on modifications (cam/headwork/diff/clutch/brakes/wheels/induction/exhaust/audio system etc), a good suspension upgrade seems to me like very good bang for your buck compared to the these other things.

[mechatron]

I just had a very detailed conversation with the guys at Sydney Suspension. I think I'll still get the Bilstein B8 shocks and the King Springs ....but with the Kings I'll probably get the non HD version of the Super Lows (as Klink has suggested) for both front and rear.This way I should be able to retain some level of comfort when lowering my car.

Going by the Kings online catalogue ....HD is for use in the V8 commodore, HHD is for track cars and non HD is for the V6 commodores. Therefore instead of going ahead with Super Low HD springs and ripping them out in a month due to being too firm as everyone has said here, I think the non HD super lows would be a good compromise and totally livable with no regrets.

I'm also going to lower the car 30mm at the front and 40mm at the rear. Sydney Suspension also has a lot more King Springs then the catalogue shows...Spring choice with 5mm increments....not just the low, super low and ultra low where there's a massive difference in height between these 3 classes of springs

[come in spinner]

Hi guys,

For years I've ummed and arred whether to lower my VY SS S2 sedan (with factory sway bar) and now I've finally come around to liking the idea. I not only want my car to look good but I really want it to handle as well so I want to do it properly...ie with good shocks and springs. One thing I want to make sure of is that after lowering my car I don't want the race car like ride where you feel every imperfection in the road and I really don't want my car to fall apart & rattle severely. I'm hoping to get my car to handle but have a similar comfort level to the factory FE2 suspension. I'm thinking of lowering the front by 50mm and the rear by 60mm.

Ive done a bit of research and narrowed down the shocks to either Bilstein B8s or Koni yellows. As for springs I'm up for suggestions.... Something like Kings or Eibachs. What are people's thoughts? Budget approx $2K and I'm not rely interested in coil overs

What setup will make my car handle like its on rails but still retain a level of comfort?
Apparently the Koni yellows are adjustable...but are they height adjustable as well?
Is the legal lowering limit in NSW still 100mm to the lowest point of the car?
Has anyone used Wholesale Suspension in Penrith since they've changed their name to Sydney Suspension?
Whats the going rate to install shocks springs and do a wheel alignment excluding parts ($250-$400)?

FYI, my car has 245/35/19s

Thanks heaps guys

Hi...my first comment is this 'Penrith" crowd refusing to give details....you are entitled to full details and they are
entitled to with-hold none. My first port of call would be NRMA if a member or the tribunal. Write at first to the Penrith
people and require the full details...then you have something to work with instead of a later denial. Perhaps they are
introducing an unapproved change....your comment told me "never use them" ...'game-players' can't be trusted .

Lowering a passenger vehicle 60 mm at rear and 50mm front makes no sense to me and less sense if a ute.

Cars dominantly used on wet roads should be flatter in stance. Cars used dominantly on dry roads can use front
to rear rake...but I suggest 20 rear 35 front is as far as is sensible. The more you lower springs , the more you
shorten shock absorber strokes the harder will be the ride. Bilstein are perhaps the best choice of shock absorbers if
correct for the springs and car...using terms like 'low' and 'superlow' for springs would not be my way of getting into
a height discussion. The height discussion is best done maturely....with an expert steering suspension person
rather than one using acronyms. King springs are ok as springs however I will not use them again after two fittings
on different cars...compared with the results on same model using expert advice and experience and springs
from Heasmans at Sydenham. The car handing is quite different...fitted out by Heasman noticeably better.

You are not compelled to use King springs...though admirably patriotic it's steering improvements you want not
a national accreditation...Eibach and H and R are the ones I generally use. I am not a fan of coil-overs but when
a car uses them ex factory the option is to cut the strut, weld a threaded collar to one end, thread the other
(all using lathe) fit say Bilstein insert and refit all. The labour will be about $270/side for that work.

eBay coil over are comparative garbage... stick with the best...H and R/Bilstein or Eibach /Bilstein. If Bilstein too
expensive go KYB as alternatives.

Al Heasman would be the person I would ask. I am about to have my VE fully checked and although
I regard coil-overs as fantasies with no practical advantage unless racing at different circuits...and hopelessly
unpredictable when that eBay rubbish stuff...I may go that way simply on price and advice from Heasman's
workshop manager., Peter, ..a business-friend for over 50 years.

Al discussed the options with me. Having never driven the ute. I do not know how it is apart from 'pretty good'
as and example...Heasman's know exactly how I want a car to handle and they don't just 'align and park' they
test drive at no added alignment expense until 'right'. They also Q-A the entire suspension set up before
alignment including any new parts fitted. That may also include diagonal measurement


My advice was and I pass it on....forget using HSV and HSV MRC, just go say H and R and Bilstein.
MRC require computer mod. Below is a dissertation I made elsewhere...An owner wanted his VE to 'handle
better'

My reponse was....:

Why?...against what are you rating your 'handling'. Is it under-steering or over-steering?...varying during
cornering....unstable over bumps?..what?. Have you been watching videos of cars apparently cornering 'flat'...
or do you just feel you want something else?...Cordially I ask 'how well do you actually drive a car"...are you
a driving -technician? I'll give an example....decades ago I was driving back from a race meeting...with my s
on, a race driver and his mate in my car, I instantly fishtailed out of a skid in the mountains.

My son said "you don't know how to drive"...the race driver said 'if you'd been driving sonny you'd have
gone over the edge your old man is a very good driver"...yes but I WAS driving too fast for the conditions
and put us all at risk. Every car I have owned, over 130 of them, if going on the road has been sent to the
best suspension shop there is which hopefully you can see is Heasmans at Sydenham NSW...for suspension
perfection and aligned to the way I drive. The same wheel-aligner has done the QA of the work for the
63 years I have used them. He never aligned and parked...he drove every car and aligned /realigned until
driving perfection. That might be 2 or three test drives...no extra cost...Earlier this year he did my BME
330i...$60 front, $60 rear. So I return to your puzzle...though years later from your inquiry... Chassis have
o be squared...no diagonal distortion. From there all components have to be within 'range' of "+/-"
maxima/minima. Brakes and hubs must be true. Rims must be 'true'....tyres fresh, good and even tread ...
no more than 4 years old is best...and all in balance.

At that point the car should drive well...but then comes springs shocks sway bars and steering
accessories...and driver of course. Our tyres have been chosen as suited to our roads and usage.
Our shock absorbers should be calibration-machine tested on compression and rebound,
Spring heights tell much of their utility. All our suspension components , rebounds and so on
have been checked and changed as required by experts.

Tyres are the number one steering component. I use softer composition, not looking for long
life. Next my springs and shocks should be normal or sports settings...Lowering a car more
than 35mm front 20mm rear is excessive for road use...the car designers knew what they
are doing.

A full changeover to Bilstn-Eibach or H and R will give you the best arrangement....so long
as your supplier has serious grounding in suspension for YOUR car model and how this height
or that,this shock setting or that will suit your wants. Ideally you would drive the car with
him/her before any work is done describe your feelings , let him also make his own
judgements and allow him/her to drive the car over the same route. You may be in pixie
land or need to learn how to properly drive or have a justifiable steering argument he/she can
fix.

Sway bars...1mm is a typical increase in diameter. Sway bars and shock braces are intended
to flatten car lift in cornering....if too tight you will perhaps need another half degree of
'neg'or may find your car is tending to lift a wheel. If you have very good tyres you will not
need to increase sway bar size. These are all compromise positions. Drivers commonly
think a strut across the front shock towers improves steering...It may but it may be doing
it by introducing oversteer...To rectify that and keep the strut, it is likely the matching rear sway
bar must be fitted. Your car must not be so rigid it has shocks unable to do their other task,
making the car comfortable and protecting tyres and components. Bilstein are a better
made shock than KYB but KYB are quite good...so are Koni ... I stay away from other
'suspension specialists' who build springs shocks and sway bars. Stay away from HSV sets.
Stay away from eBay suspension kits. Forget 'shelf names' for springs and make sure you and your
suspension supplier know exactly what you want and take advice. You may find your 'dreamtime'
handling is not best for you or your car...act in haste...repent at leisure!! Voila..."come in spinner".

[come in spinner]

HI..."I'm also going to lower the car 30mm at the front and 40mm at the rear. "...40mm at the rear??...
why?...what is the point of that arrangement. If your car is so badly worn out you need new suspension...

20mm rear and 35 mm front is as far as I go with new gear...and considering the spring height after
a few hundred thousand kMs...that makes sense...it puts the car into a good 'rake' again for dryer road work.
If most driving is in the wet,,,the front and rear should be fairly level

[Red CV8 R]

As this post was from 2013, I'm guessing the poster has made his choice.

I've had 3 packages from Heasmans, one of which is still sitting in a box in my garage (Bilstein/ Eibach) and been there countless times since 2002. Alas, I wouldn't use them now. I've also had 2 setups from Sydney Suspension in Penrith (Bilstein and Tein Coilovers), they were excellent. But it's been years since I've been there.