Twin turbo vs Supercharging LS motors? What's the vibe nowadays?

[Jag530G]

Something that I seem to have noticed in recent times is that we don't see many people talking about twin-turbos for LS motors anymore (although I see Duke5700 is doing a TT). When I first joined the forum there were quite a few posts about TT kits and installations, don't really see them anymore. I seem to notice more people going down the supercharging route of late using Harrop blowers or such like (Feistl's car as an example).

Are TTs are waning and the move is on towards S/C? If so, why? (or why not, if I'm completely barking up the wrong tree) Reliability? Better quality product ie a Harrop blower is a bit more of a known quantity then some TT kit put together? Fashion? GM support for S/C with LS9/LSA factory motors? Ford Coyote motor raising support for S/C?

Your thoughts are welcome.

Cheers, Matthew

[2010blackve]

Probably a lot of TT builds going on just not posted on here.

All depends on what people are trying to achieve.

I looked at both and tested both before my current combo, as my car is a street car I decided on the PD blower and built motor combo.

All comes down to personal preference.

[itsme4g63]

Supercharging is alot simpler than installing a twin turbo kit, you basically change out the intake sides and add a pulley bracket and youre almost done whereas turbocharging requires alot of pluming and parts removal, especially on V engine cars. This is why you always see oem's supercharging v8 motors and turbocharging 4 cylinders or inline motors.

[macca_779]

Supercharging is alot simpler than installing a twin turbo kit, you basically change out the intake sides and add a pulley bracket and youre almost done whereas turbocharging requires alot of pluming and parts removal, especially on V engine cars. This is why you always see oem's supercharging v8 motors and turbocharging 4 cylinders or inline motors.

Unless your BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc.

[IJ.]

I did the Turbo thing on other cars for 25 odd years even to the point that I used one on my L98 is the non Holden car a couple of years back, while I had a lot of success making very good power it always came at a cost, radiant heat... don't let anyone play this down it's a huge issue to contend with.

PD Blowers still generate heat but nothing like a Turbo system and have far fewer install issues to contend with, Modern Blowers have matured to the point their transparent in use and just "feel" like a much larger engine and can be almost silent depending on which you choose.

[bozodos]

Unless your BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc.

Isn't that more for emissions reasons rather than performance?

[macca_779]

Isn't that more for emissions reasons rather than performance?

Your kidding right... No

[SS317]

I went for the PD blower because I liked the easy install process (I fitted it myself) and the instant power even at low rpm, why'll a few of the TT cars I've been in have had insane power it always seems to be at a much higher rpm and this was not what I was after.

[feistl]

Hey,

This was my own personal reasoning for choosing S/C over TT (I am no way saying this is BETTER overall, just better for me personally).

1. When you start making serious power (400rwkw+) the spike in power from a turbo charged LS V8 can be pretty brutal and difficult to control (especially in low grip scenarios). A S/C has a very progressive power delivery from basically idle, so its a bit easier to stay at almost maximum power without breaking traction. Of course at the higher speeds this isnt so much an issue, but at anything less than ~150kp/h power delivery is important.

2. TT kits require a fair bit of cutting to accommodate the piping. This also usually means a big air to air intercooler at the front, which limits room for other coolers (For example say engine oil coolers, power steering/transmission coolers etc).

3. Engine bay temps can be pretty hot due to the extra piping, even with hpc coating everything tends to run a little hot for my liking.

I will be interested to see how well the HTV2300 works on the track for extended periods. Supposedly the charger is a bit too small for 427ci, although i dont plan to run a heap of boost so im hoping it copes.

Turbos are obviously capable of a lot more boost for the same sort of money, so if your after massive power its still the way to go.

Cheers

[itsme4g63]

I doubt a supercharger, at least a roots type like the tvs would hold up for track racing for extended periods of time beyond a few hotlaps. I’d imagine it would get heatsoaked sooner or later as it does sit right on top of the engine and the heat would just keep rising to it. If you fancy a supercharger for track racing I’d imagine a centrifugal type blower would suit the needs way more efficiently. Its setup like a turbo system as far as the intercooling goes and does sit next to the engine but is drven by a belt like the roots type so it never sits close to the exhaust as it needs to be placed parallel to the engine accessory pullies due to its drive belt system.

Foreign german car manufacturers like AUDI/BMW/Mercedes, aside from the fact that smaller boosted engine do help them passing emissions standards, invest millions/billions into new engine/turbocharger/platform development so they can mass produce them whilst gm would just try to adapt a turbo kit to an existing motor/platform (like they’ve adapted a supercharger to the cts-v/Camaro zl1/C6 ZR1) and be left with countless horrors of getting screwed over on possible warrantees if something was to go wrong. Its not that it can’t be done its just that I believe they’d consider it too costly.

I’d imagine one of the reasons the new LT1 motor is coming along is because GM might have it setup for some sort of turbocharging in mind though, which we might see in the future zr1 corvette. I’d if in anything else though, but if such a motor can fit in a ticght corvette engine bay, then it would without issues into many different cars.

[Solone]

i think the centrifugal supercharger system is ideal for a street ls1/2/3 motor.

You can drive it tame when you dont need to be on boost or plotting through traffic, getting reasonable fuel economy and generates almost no additional heat. Under about 3000rpm its like they are not there, so for most driving situations less stress on components. When you need power, you crack the throttle and get gobs full like a turbo. It dont hit as hard as a turbo or PD charger at 3000rpm which wont break or shock pistons/rods and less likely to overwelm street tyres. But it will build up a torrent of horsepower up top in an exponential fashion when you need it moreso than the PD blower and similar to turbo.

Also the higher comp LS motors dont really want peak boost at peak torque (max cylinder pressure) as this leads to detonation. But after this point cylinder pressure tails off and then can tolerate the boost. But how do you give a PD blower variable boost to best deal with this?

look at some of the bigger vortech units or procharger. Similar to turbo benefits, less heat and easier install.

[IJ.]

LOL Centri's have the worst of both camps...

TVS type blowers bypass at light throttle so aren't putting any more load than the Centri driving around but have the benefit of instant power soon as you get on the throttle.

[shaness8]

Com'on GM bring out a turbo LS motor and take euro's on.

[bozodos]

Your kidding right... No

I'd read it on several websites actually. Less parasitic loss from turbochargers and they act like mufflers as well to some degree.

[duke5700]

Personaly preference to some degree, including whoever installs them. A blower is a drive in drive out much quicker install than a turbo kit is. Generally speaking also a better install and cleaner.

A PD blower is a very instant power add, feels like driving a big block really. Turbos take time to spool and as such can feel pretty instant when they come but in all reality, good turbo design and boost control will make them feel almost lazy fast. I would much rather punt a turbo car around a race track than a big blown car. Easy to dial power in and out of and with todays boost controllers boost curves can be tailored wet/dry and to the track at the push of a button. A good traction control system also helps if you are not Ayrton Senna.

As for heat build up, I don't believe it to be any worse than any of the PD setups. In saying that I always HPC coat and wrap. I would do that with extractors on a blower anyway.. so to me its a mute point. I have found that most turbo "kits" have been designed by someone looking to make a buck and as such things like crappy oil feeds, turbo drains, poor heat sheilding etc just make them seem well amaturish. It takes more than a weekend of someone mucking around with a tig and some pipe to design a turbocharged installation.

As for power potential, well you can make more than you will ever need with both.