Twin turbo vs Supercharging LS motors? What's the vibe nowadays?

[Evman]

The editing option is playing up for me. I would have liked to edit it to say...

"but once moving the temps will still stabilise somewhere below 50degC, which includes battling a continuously rising coolant temp"

[feistl]

I doubt a supercharger, at least a roots type like the tvs would hold up for track racing for extended periods of time beyond a few hotlaps. I’d imagine it would get heatsoaked sooner or later as it does sit right on top of the engine and the heat would just keep rising to it.

It will be interesting to see. Im hoping the cooling system keeps the entire engine cool, as well as HPC coating on the exhaust system. Plus the minimum speed doesnt drop below 80kp/h, so there is a fair amount of air moving through the engine bay. I also have monaro scoops which aid in ducting cold air onto the charger itself.

I guess the real question is how good is the water radiator for the intercooler? Will the high air speed aid in keeping the entire system cool?

These are the unknowns im facing.

If temps do rise to a bad level, i will experiment with water spray onto the intercooler radiator to bring temps down.

Also nothing personal at all (I honestly appreciate everyones opinions) but quite often what happens in the real world is different to what someone might logically think. Until you get out there and actually do it for real and record the data, its just educated guess work. I'm also talking from experience, where things i thought should work didnt, and vice versa.

The important thing is to share this information for everyones benefit.

Cheers

[duke5700]

All in the setup but a turbo would be more gentle than a PD.

Not sure about the others, but i disagree with these two. Surely PD is easier on the driveline than a turbo?
And its much easier to install a PD blower than centrifugal as you dont have to worry about piping...

[Evman]

It will be interesting to see. Im hoping the cooling system keeps the entire engine cool, as well as HPC coating on the exhaust system. Plus the minimum speed doesnt drop below 80kp/h, so there is a fair amount of air moving through the engine bay. I also have monaro scoops which aid in ducting cold air onto the charger itself.

I guess the real question is how good is the water radiator for the intercooler? Will the high air speed aid in keeping the entire system cool?

These are the unknowns im facing.

If temps do rise to a bad level, i will experiment with water spray onto the intercooler radiator to bring temps down.

Also nothing personal at all (I honestly appreciate everyones opinions) but quite often what happens in the real world is different to what someone might logically think. Until you get out there and actually do it for real and record the data, its just educated guess work. I'm also talking from experience, where things i thought should work didnt, and vice versa.

The important thing is to share this information for everyones benefit.

Cheers

I think you'll find the monaro scoops might work against the cooling. There is a lot of resistance when trying to push air through a radiator, let alone several, and any increase in air pressure behind it will only work against it. For a serious track car I'd be focusing more on getting air out of the engine bay over getting extra air in, especially if that air isn't going through radiators. Most reports I've heard from people who've tried the ally radiators such as PWR is that they still seem to get very high coolant temperatures, despite the apparent extra efficiency of the heat exchangers. Even speaking to someone recently who regularly competes in tarmac rallies said he didn't notice much difference between stock and PWR radiators, which he was really disappointed about.

On the lower end I'm running somewhere in the vicinity of 500rwkw with a stock VZ radiator system in my VY. It needs to be quite a cool day for me to not have a continuously climbing water temp. I have no idea if/when it would top out because I always go onto cool down mode when it hits 110degC, which is very much on the safe side.

[Jag530G]

I think you'll find the monaro scoops might work against the cooling. There is a lot of resistance when trying to push air through a radiator, let alone several, and any increase in air pressure behind it will only work against it. For a serious track car I'd be focusing more on getting air out of the engine bay over getting extra air in, especially if that air isn't going through radiators. Most reports I've heard from people who've tried the ally radiators such as PWR is that they still seem to get very high coolant temperatures, despite the apparent extra efficiency of the heat exchangers. Even speaking to someone recently who regularly competes in tarmac rallies said he didn't notice much difference between stock and PWR radiators, which he was really disappointed about.

On the lower end I'm running somewhere in the vicinity of 500rwkw with a stock VZ radiator system in my VY. It needs to be quite a cool day for me to not have a continuously climbing water temp. I have no idea if/when it would top out because I always go onto cool down mode when it hits 110degC, which is very much on the safe side.

Considering the mid point of the bonnet is a low pressure area, The VZ Monaro scoops aren't going to do to much facing forward, this area (perhaps back a little bit more) would be better for rear facing louvre to help extract air out of the engine bay behind the radiator. I'm not talking about the back of the bonnet because that area is a high pressure area.

Cheers, Matthew

[Evman]

Considering the mid point of the bonnet is a low pressure area, The VZ Monaro scoops aren't going to do to much facing forward, this area (perhaps back a little bit more) would be better for rear facing louvre to help extract air out of the engine bay behind the radiator. I'm not talking about the back of the bonnet because that area is a high pressure area.

Cheers, Matthew

Is it low enough to suck air out of the engine bay? Because that's what it needs

This forum has some major issues. I deleted that pic attached, but it still shows up. Awesome forum is awesome. None the less, it demonstrates that although the bonnet experiences lower pressure, not very far above it the airflow returns to higher pressure or at least neutral. I'd say the scoops would extend into the higher/neutral pressure zone

[IJ.]

I think you'll find the monaro scoops might work against the cooling. There is a lot of resistance when trying to push air through a radiator, let alone several, and any increase in air pressure behind it will only work against it. For a serious track car I'd be focusing more on getting air out of the engine bay over getting extra air in, especially if that air isn't going through radiators. Most reports I've heard from people who've tried the ally radiators such as PWR is that they still seem to get very high coolant temperatures, despite the apparent extra efficiency of the heat exchangers. Even speaking to someone recently who regularly competes in tarmac rallies said he didn't notice much difference between stock and PWR radiators, which he was really disappointed about.

On the lower end I'm running somewhere in the vicinity of 500rwkw with a stock VZ radiator system in my VY. It needs to be quite a cool day for me to not have a continuously climbing water temp. I have no idea if/when it would top out because I always go onto cool down mode when it hits 110degC, which is very much on the safe side.

Gave mine a bit of a pasting the other day in 30c heat, saw a 1c temp rise well after I backed off, PWR Rad.

[Jag530G]

Is it low enough to suck air out of the engine bay? Because that's what it needs

This forum has some major issues. I deleted that pic attached, but it still shows up. Awesome forum is awesome. None the less, it demonstrates that although the bonnet experiences lower pressure, not very far above it the airflow returns to higher pressure or at least neutral. I'd say the scoops would extend into the higher/neutral pressure zone

Yeah, looks a bit tight, you'd want the vent to draw air from behine the fan shroud but doesn't seem to be a lot of space for the vent before the air flow goes high pressure. Might just squeeze it in.

I wonder if the fans could be mounted in front of the radiator (don't know if possible) so that a vent could draw straight from the back of the radiator, that would give a bit more room along the bonnet to fit in the low pressure zone.

*edit* the vent i'm talking about would be more a lourve style, a bit like the bonnet vent thing on some Lance Evos.

[Solone]

Is this validated data or your opinion or some other persons opinion?

Do you not agree?

[IJ.]

Yeah, looks a bit tight, you'd want the vent to draw air from behine the fan shroud but doesn't seem to be a lot of space for the vent before the air flow goes high pressure. Might just squeeze it in.

I wonder if the fans could be mounted in front of the radiator (don't know if possible) so that a vent could draw straight from the back of the radiator, that would give a bit more room along the bonnet to fit in the low pressure zone.

*edit* the vent i'm talking about would be more a lourve style, a bit like the bonnet vent thing on some Lance Evos.

So very illegal

Supra bonnet, like this??

DSC03770.jpg

[Jag530G]

So very illegal

For race tracks? (I'm writing only based on knowledge of aerodynamics/fluid dynamics, no particular knowledge of CAMS rules etc)

Cheers, Matthew

[IJ.]

Sorry meant for a road car

[Woodchukka]

Attachment 1947

Nuff said???

I am sure there is a better video I just can't find it.

[Jag530G]

So very illegal

Supra bonnet, like this??

DSC03770.jpg

Yep, that's just what I had in mind.

[white lie]

Power per pound of boost (intercooled): Turbo > Centrifugal > PD blower

Thermally efficient (no intercooler): Centrifugal > PD Blower > Turbo

Longevity of driveline: Centrifugal > Turbo > PD Blower

Ultimate Power potential: Turbo > Centrifugal > PD Blower

Ease of install: Centrifugal > PD Blower > Turbo

Cost of Setup @ 400rwkw: Centrifugal > PD Blower > Turbo

Fuel Efficiency: Centrifugal > Turbo > PD Blower

Quarter Mile Potential: Turbo > Centrifugal > PD Blower

Who says Centrifugal is the worst of these setups?

I disagree with a few on that list... what's your source or is it just your way of thinking?

As said a few times in this thread, the newer PD blowers will bypass at low throttle, Magnuson were claiming 1/3 of a hp loss when it's doing this at 60MPH. You'd be hard pressed to notice anything better than that from the "seat of the pants" dyno.

Low throttle (off boost), I didn't notice any change in fuel economy before and after fitting my blower. On boost fuel efficiency will depend entirely on the tune and how much boost is going in. If you're putting more air in, you generally need more fuel. You can't say a PD blower is less efficient just because its making more boost... it's also making more torque/power in that case!