VF Commodore revealed - Official details and pics - Part 3

[korrupt]

VF I fear will blend into traffic, having lost many of the VE signatures, but its proportions might sav the day.

I saw a VF SS this morning on Princes Hwy. From the back, I initially thought it was some little hatchback. It certainly didn't stand out as much as VE SS

[Speedy Gonzales]

I just cant believe after 7 YEARS of VE series, this is all they could come up with for the VF, what a laugh, def no love from designers that's for sure.

Its no surprise, get billions of dollars to prop up a company that continues to manufacture cars for the public that are not innovative, fuel efficient, cost more to buy than what the car is worth, GM have the tech and know how to build the car people want, the thing is they choose not to do it and its being reflected by the public punishing them in the sales figures, people here get angry because they are blinded by the badge, that doesnt change the fact its not selling and less buyers are buying.

Commodore market is luxury hot rod, its got to be something special to compete against the likes of Audi, BMW, Merc and VW, for the money you pay for a HSV you are getting antiquated technology, if its a 80K plus car, it should have the latest tech and powertrain, shoving a blown V8 into a large sedan is a good way to send a company bust, they already make that car which could be imported, but again, choose not to.

[jaykay]

jkgmh I'll do a black one for you later when I get home from work.

Any luck mate ?

[steve_t]

shoving a blown V8 into a large sedan is a good way to send a company bust, they already make that car which could be imported, but again, choose not to.

How do you figure?

[Speedy Gonzales]

How do you figure?

GM has the Camaro ZL1 coupe and roadster, CTSV which can be adapted to RHD, the car sells for mid 50s, to build a few thousand for Asia Pacific would cost SFA considering the volumes and markets they trade in

[steve_t]

GM has the Camaro ZL1 coupe and roadster, CTSV which can be adapted to RHD, the car sells for mid 50s, to build a few thousand for Asia Pacific would cost SFA considering the volumes and markets they trade in

So you don't think an Australian-built car designed specifically for Australian conditions is worth the exercise? I guess the bean counters agree with you and that's why Commodore is due to end 2016. A bit sad if you ask me, but I guess it's the way of the world

[Plenty]

Its no surprise, get billions of dollars to prop up a company that continues to manufacture cars for the public that are not innovative, fuel efficient, cost more to buy than what the car is worth, GM have the tech and know how to build the car people want, the thing is they choose not to do it and its being reflected by the public punishing them in the sales figures, people here get angry because they are blinded by the badge, that doesnt change the fact its not selling and less buyers are buying.

Commodore market is luxury hot rod, its got to be something special to compete against the likes of Audi, BMW, Merc and VW, for the money you pay for a HSV you are getting antiquated technology, if its a 80K plus car, it should have the latest tech and powertrain, shoving a blown V8 into a large sedan is a good way to send a company bust, they already make that car which could be imported, but again, choose not to.

Pretty stupid a naive comments there, first of all the market is very segmented (same buyers spread across more car makes) and in terms of sales up until the announcement of the VF was still top 3 if not 1 or 2. People have a lot more choice now then they used to and it's only natural that the sales start spreading.

Your other stupid comment is comparing on average a sub $50,000 car against the likes of "Audi, BMW and Merc", i don't buy that argument at all, you not getting a full size family sedan with the same amount of power for the same cost as the Commodore, especially one that handles the Aussie roads like ours anyway.

The Cadillac CTS-V is not available in RHD and if it was would cost well into the $100k bracket.

I think your post should read, Holden aren't building the car that i want! The main reason they are losing sales to other segments now is pure badge snobbery, they think because they drive an SUV they are so much better than what they are, they think the Commodore and Falcon are soooo BOGAN and just fuel guzzlers, in reality most people that criticise the Commodore or Falcon have got not frigging idea how good our locals are.

[Plenty]

GM has the Camaro ZL1 coupe and roadster, CTSV which can be adapted to RHD, the car sells for mid 50s, to build a few thousand for Asia Pacific would cost SFA considering the volumes and markets they trade in

Same goes, the cost would be well above what you think. considering it was going to cost $15m just to retool the rear lights on the UTE and Sportswagon.

[Speedy Gonzales]

So you don't think an Australian-built car designed specifically for Australian conditions is worth the exercise? I guess the bean counters agree with you and that's why Commodore is due to end 2016. A bit sad if you ask me, but I guess it's the way of the world

Its not sad, thats business. You, me, everyone whether they like it or not, competes globally, whether as an employee or employer. Businesses strive to compete with better pricing, better quality and better service, that is what business is about, if GMH wants to sit in a corner and not compete, I would recommend they close up shop and do something else.

I have been getting angry PMs regarding my opinion on this, I dont bother even reading my PMs anymore for those interested in PMing.

Truth be told, all manufacturers do hot weather testing in Australia, though some will go to Arctic extremes, I dont believe a Commodore has been tested as such but willing to be proven wrong.

[CLUBRED]

Pretty sure I've seen pics of test cars covered in snow, just can't recall wha country they were in.

[Speedy Gonzales]

Pretty stupid a naive comments there, first of all the market is very segmented (same buyers spread across more car makes) and in terms of sales up until the announcement of the VF was still top 3 if not 1 or 2. People have a lot more choice now then they used to and it's only natural that the sales start spreading.

Your other stupid comment is comparing on average a sub $50,000 car against the likes of "Audi, BMW and Merc", i don't buy that argument at all, you not getting a full size family sedan with the same amount of power for the same cost as the Commodore, especially one that handles the Aussie roads like ours anyway.

The Cadillac CTS-V is not available in RHD and if it was would cost well into the $100k bracket.

I think your post should read, Holden aren't building the car that i want! The main reason they are losing sales to other segments now is pure badge snobbery, they think because they drive an SUV they are so much better than what they are, they think the Commodore and Falcon are soooo BOGAN and just fuel guzzlers, in reality most people that criticise the Commodore or Falcon have got not frigging idea how good our locals are.

My opinions are just that, you dont have to agree with them. Stupid and naive? Ill let your words speak for you.

I still have my LS1, those who know me know how long Ive had it for, if Ive never sold or offered to sell my car, what does that tell anyone as a buyer?

Interesting view you have, you blame the buyer than the people running the business.

[Marco]

So you don't think an Australian-built car designed specifically for Australian conditions is worth the exercise? I guess the bean counters agree with you and that's why Commodore is due to end 2016. A bit sad if you ask me, but I guess it's the way of the world

Not so much the bean counters as the buying public. Australians clearly no longer believe there is much value in a car designed and built for Australian conditions. And when those conditions more often than not these days involve pottering around the suburbs, maybe they're right. I hope they enjoy their Malibu-based SUV...

[Evman]

Its not sad, thats business. You, me, everyone whether they like it or not, competes globally, whether as an employee or employer. Businesses strive to compete with better pricing, better quality and better service, that is what business is about, if GMH wants to sit in a corner and not compete, I would recommend they close up shop and do something else.

I have been getting angry PMs regarding my opinion on this, I dont bother even reading my PMs anymore for those interested in PMing.

Truth be told, all manufacturers do hot weather testing in Australia, though some will go to Arctic extremes, I dont believe a Commodore has been tested as such but willing to be proven wrong.

You make a hell of a lot of generalisations in your posts. Business is actually about making money. Holden don't "choose" to make a car the majority no longer want, they're doing the best with what they've got, they're just not in a position to do much else with it. Or do you think they should just close and put all their workers and suppliers out of a job? Because that's what business is about.

Do you honestly think manufacturers sell cars for less than they're worth? Obviously you do;

continues to manufacture cars for the public that are not innovative, fuel efficient, cost more to buy than what the car is worth

How are these businesses making money again?

You need a lesson in economics and market size if you think Holden has ever been in a position to compete with a car sold globally like the Euro cars. You can do a lot when you're selling a lot more cars globally for more than they're worth (ie making a profit on it).

Edit:
Originally posted BMW selling over 1mill cars/year. Was actually Mercedes.

[Speedy Gonzales]

Not so much the bean counters as the buying public. Australians clearly no longer believe there is much value in a car designed and built for Australian conditions. And when those conditions more often than not these days involve pottering around the suburbs, maybe they're right. I hope they enjoy their Malibu-based SUV...

What conditions that are unique to Australia cannot be simulated or replicated anywhere else in the world?

[Speedy Gonzales]

You make a hell of a lot of generalisations in your posts. Business is actually about making money. Holden don't "choose" to make a car the majority no longer want, they're doing the best with what they've got, they're just not in a position to do much else with it. Or do you think they should just close and put all their workers and suppliers out of a job? Because that's what business is about.

Do you honestly think manufacturers sell cars for less than they're worth? Obviously you do;

How are these businesses making money again?

You need a lesson in economics and market size if you think Holden has ever been in a position to compete with a car sold globally like the Euro cars. You can do a lot when you're selling a lot more cars globally for more than they're worth (ie making a profit on it).

Edit:
Originally posted BMW selling over 1mill cars/year. Was actually Mercedes.

All markets go through booms and busts, as an employee, you should be relying upon yourself rather than relying on an employer for security, plenty of former employees here who set up their own businesses and interests