How crap do the new F1 cars sound

[planetdavo]

Does anyone else fine it a little ridiculous that they fly 22 cars plus who knows how much gear all around the world simply to race, burn through tens of thousands of types each year ... and then pretend that they care about the environment by limiting fuel flow!

Not to mention the amount of flying the team would do in between races!

Tis what happens when you're trying to kiss butt.
The car manufactures want it to sell small capacity turbo and hybrid cars. Technology loving types love it because it's very "now", so, well, it must be better.
And at the end of the day, stuff the "real" motorsport fans who actually love motorsport in all it's oh so old school rawness...
The fuel flow limit isn't about saving fuel though. It's to cap ultimate engine performance in this turbo era. The energy recovery side of the new cars looks after the performance boost, and it's capacity is capped.

[IJ.]

Maybe, maybe not, but at the end of the day it is the rules that everyone follows, and Red Bull Racing chose to take the risk with the umpire by ignoring a directive- not to mention creating a pile of negative publicity against themselves.
Really though, is it any different to being told we are limited to doing 100km/h on a highway, then someone sooks because they get booked for doing 120?
The car might be capable of it, but thems the rules you agreed to by obtaining your licence...

I know you like to play Devil's Advocate Dave but this time it's total and utter bullshit...

100Kg's of fuel per race.

Flow shouldn't come into it at all, may as well draw the winners from a hat before the start...

[C4B]

Does anyone else fine it a little ridiculous that they fly 22 cars plus who knows how much gear all around the world simply to race, burn through tens of thousands of types each year ... and then pretend that they care about the environment by limiting fuel flow!

Not to mention the amount of flying the team would do in between races!

I bet they go to Maccas and buy a Big Mac, Large Fries and a DIET Coke.....

[XUV]

I know you like to play Devil's Advocate Dave but this time it's total and utter bullshit...

100Kg's of fuel per race.

Flow shouldn't come into it at all, may as well draw the winners from a hat before the start...

maybe they made a typo, maybe they meant 100 litres,
coz depending how cold your fuel is , 100kg could be 130 litres or 150 litres ,
so flow might come into it, coz ya know how anal these F1 tech people are.

[planetdavo]

I know you like to play Devil's Advocate Dave but this time it's total and utter bullshit...

100Kg's of fuel per race.

Flow shouldn't come into it at all, may as well draw the winners from a hat before the start...

Not playing devil's advocate at all! You think it's utter bullsh!t, but you are of course entitled to your opinion- just as I am.
I simply understand the purpose of the rule. They don't want teams using extra fuel volume at any given time above a prescribed limit to produce extra internal combustion engine performance. Think we all know how turbo's want to work. Give them more fuel flow, give them more turbo boost, get a hell of a lot more power. All within the same rev limit.
They intentionally went down the path of "hybrid" propulsion- which the teams are permitted to use (within prescribed limits) to provide "push to pass" performance if they want to. They can also use it to try to prevent someone passing them. Or just use it to try to maximise a lap time. Their choice how.
They are also permitted to run in zero fuel saving mode to extract maximum performance (to the 100kg/hr fuel flow limit), if they want to maximise ICE performance (possibly with maximum KERS/TERS contribution at the same time).
It's all part of the strategy....within the rules of course.

[IJ.]

Not playing devil's advocate at all! You think it's utter bullsh!t, but you are of course entitled to your opinion- just as I am.
I simply understand the purpose of the rule. They don't want teams using extra fuel volume at any given time above a prescribed limit to produce extra internal combustion engine performance. Think we all know how turbo's want to work. Give them more fuel flow, give them more turbo boost, get a hell of a lot more power. All within the same rev limit.
They intentionally went down the path of "hybrid" propulsion- which the teams are permitted to use (within prescribed limits) to provide "push to pass" performance if they want to. They can also use it to try to prevent someone passing them. Or just use it to try to maximise a lap time. Their choice how.
They are also permitted to run in zero fuel saving mode to extract maximum performance (to the 100kg/hr fuel flow limit), if they want to maximise ICE performance (possibly with maximum KERS/TERS contribution at the same time).
It's all part of the strategy....within the rules of course.

Then they run out of fuel and don't finish the race.... Don't need a Belt and Braces...

[C4B]

From what I read, Red Bull found the fuel flow sensor provided by the authorities to be reading too high, so they used their own sensors to regulate the fuel flow to below 100kg/h.

This will be the basis for the appeal, since they were complaining about it prior to the race.

It'd be like if you were driving along at a verified 100km/h and a Cop looked in your drivers window to see your speedo reading 120km/h so booked you for that speed based on the inaccurate speedo reading.

[IJ.]

From what I read, Red Bull found the fuel flow sensor provided by the authorities to be reading too high, so they used their own sensors to regulate the fuel flow to below 100kg/h.

This will be the basis for the appeal, since they were complaining about it prior to the race.

It'd be like if you were driving along at a verified 100km/h and a Cop looked in your drivers window to see your speedo reading 120km/h so booked you for that speed based on the inaccurate speedo reading.

My point exactly after reading the Original Disqualification, No sensor is going to be 100% accurate, they were told here use this correction factor and you're good to go....
(right up until another team lodged a dispute maybe)

You give everyone 100Kg's of fuel from the same source at the same temp and let them go for it... if they want to roll the dice and turn the wick up fine so be it, this isn't and shouldn't be an economy run FFS..

[sv300 - 75]

http://youtu.be/jS4Dh_EAfJI

found this video, perfect example of how the V8 is better then the V6 turbo.

[HSV Listy]

Funny, lots of earmuffs and no earmuffs. Crowd speaks

[planetdavo]

Then they run out of fuel and don't finish the race.... Don't need a Belt and Braces...

If you give the engine manufacturers unlimited freedoms then the one with the most money will spend the most money to produce the most powerful engine that uses no more fuel than the other manufacturers that have less money, so can't afford this level of development.
So, you end up with total domination by the manufacturer with the most money. Something the FIA are working toward stamping out. Something to do with them trying to introduce budget caps I believe is what we've seen in recent years.
You are right. Don't need a Belt and Braces at all...

[planetdavo]

From what I read, Red Bull found the fuel flow sensor provided by the authorities to be reading too high, so they used their own sensors to regulate the fuel flow to below 100kg/h.

This will be the basis for the appeal, since they were complaining about it prior to the race.

It'd be like if you were driving along at a verified 100km/h and a Cop looked in your drivers window to see your speedo reading 120km/h so booked you for that speed based on the inaccurate speedo reading.

Assuming Red Bull's figures are accurate...
This is a lawyer's argument. The sporting world is totally f#cked if the umpires final decision can be overturned by anyone that has a bigger team of lawyers...

[GavinO]

Went to F1 on Saturday, was so disappointed with new cars. I don't expect to be able to have a civil conversation without raising my voice whilst our finest racing cars in the world are whizzing by. V8s and Porsches were much louder and better sounding. Bring back the screamers...

[planetdavo]

You give everyone 100Kg's of fuel from the same source at the same temp and let them go for it... if they want to roll the dice and turn the wick up fine so be it, this isn't and shouldn't be an economy run FFS..

They do turn up the wick, just within mandated limits. No F1 team in donkeys years has EVER started a race with enough fuel...even when they had enough tank capacity to run full rich for a whole race!
It will STILL be the case at some tracks this year that they would have more than enough fuel to run full rich for a whole race. Now here's the "problem"
Fuel equals weight, and F1 cars are light. Extra weight in a lightweight car equals noticeably slower lap times (not to mention extra load on the tyres, brakes etc). If their simulations show that they will lose more lap time with a heavy tank than they will gain by running lighter and banking on safety cars/lean mix/driver input help, they will CHOOSE to run light!
It's NOT "an economy run". The teams decide if they want to do it this way (within the rules) to score the highest result possible, and I get the distinct feeling many people fail to comprehend it!

[C4B]

Assuming Red Bull's figures are accurate...
This is a lawyer's argument. The sporting world is totally f#cked if the umpires final decision can be overturned by anyone that has a bigger team of lawyers...

The world just hasn't been the same since they cancelled "The Sullivans" all those years ago.

Anyway back to 2014...... Red Bull wouldn't knowingly break the rule if they weren't confident they were in the right. Let's hope their lawyers don't take a long lunch ;-)