The truth about EV's

[BLACK 346]

I wonder how long until EV's are a distant memory once again? Interesting that an Episode in the latest season of Car SOS visits a bio fuel facility in London that is turning Ethanol into fuel that can run in any ICE engine.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/m...46eda4c0aa7962

[FrangaFry]

I have been telling my mates and work colleagues this exact message for years but always get poo poo'ed ............

They tell me I am a planet killer b/c of my lovely Super Charged fossil fuel burning V8.... but I tell them my carbon foot print is a shite load less than there's (these are all folks who buy a new crappy 4 bang'a every 3 to 4 years .... or indeed the electric brigade) ...... my reply, I have driven the same car for 20 years and I meticulously maintain it... go do your numbers ya wankers ........ they never seem to factor in all the additional factors (such as the factors listed in said article ......... such as short life span, cost of manufacture, the acquisition and processing of materials, the transport and the 'chuck away' factor).

This is also so very true of our 'ever so green minded younger generation' who eat waaaaay too much over manufactured fast foods, who have to have the latest tech every year, who sit on their phones/pc's/ipads/tv's hour after hour with their fancy whiz bang bedroom lighting and Kardashian inspired rubbish, makeup and flashy shoes ........

and don't get me started on the bloody Vegan 'save the planet' d1ck heads ............ to quote John Dutton (YelowStone)

“You ever plow a field? To plant quinoa or sorghum or whatever the hell it is you eat? You kill everything on the ground and under it. You kill every snake, every frog, every mouse, mole, vole, worm, quail…you kill them all. So I guess the only real question is: how cute does an animal have to be before you care if it dies to feed you?”

These 'planet saving' activist wankers need to wake up and smell the bloody roses ........... get the hell off Youtube, Tiktok and Facebook and make your own mind up instead of letting idiots dictate rubbish ........

Shall we also talk about the way our kids are being mind controlled by the woke leftist anti middle aged white male LGBTQXYZ and Indigenous agenda ..... the world is going to hell in more ways that I can count these days ........ and the worst bit, you dare not pull the bastards up and set them straight for fear of being labelled

Oooops Too much?

God I love this forum ....... sorry if I have offended, but honestly, I'm well over 50 now and just don't give a rats arse what people think of me anymore (well, except maybe on here ......... please don't ban me)

[Smitty]

one topic I am being bashed about at work
have a CEO who says.. buy hybrid EVERYTHING, utes, HCV and pass vehicles

a Supply chain manager who supports only EV and who argues... stiff if the reps have to stop and recharge
SHEESH .. I have reps who do 70-80,000 kms a year
and a national Engineering Manager who drives a friggin diesel BMW! No taste .. and the fumes!
and
a Board of directors who simply want reduced emmissions and waste (on packaging, use of plastics AND TRANSPORT)

Belonging to the Aust Fleet Managers Association.. I get lots of views that way, not all in formed, some very political
and you know what?.. most are not helpful! Everyone seems to have some weird take on this

So.. me? NO EVs! the lithium batteries are wrong, plain wrong! life span of 50-60,000 at present and usurious costs
of replacement (a Toyota KLUGER one?... $18,000 ! with a $5000 Toyota subsidy) and I have guys who need TWO a year
and
the other thing with them is about half of a lithium battery is going to land fill. Some bits are recycled, some not.
And a lithium battery is a bomb awaiting a t-bone accident

NO Hybrids... DO NOT believe the advertising. in the real world, as makers put LARGE petrol engines in with
their EV powered vehciles, fuel use of terrible. Weight is a killer but they make the ICE power the car on
the highway and recharge the battery. In real life, a Toyota RAV Hubrid uses 15-20% MORE fuel than its plain
ICE cousin

me? finally got approval from the Board to go from large 6 cyl powered vehicles to 4 cyl 2 or 2.2 litres ICE powered.
Fuel use down 1/3rd, service and other running costs are normal

Personnally, I await further gains with the research on hydrogen

[Smitty]

haha... Toyota RAV Hubrid ?

RAV HYBRID that should be

[VXSS346]

I have been telling my mates and work colleagues this exact message for years but always get poo poo'ed ............

They tell me I am a planet killer b/c of my lovely Super Charged fossil fuel burning V8.... but I tell them my carbon foot print is a shite load less than there's (these are all folks who buy a new crappy 4 bang'a every 3 to 4 years .... or indeed the electric brigade) ...... my reply, I have driven the same car for 20 years and I meticulously maintain it... go do your numbers ya wankers ........ they never seem to factor in all the additional factors (such as the factors listed in said article ......... such as short life span, cost of manufacture, the acquisition and processing of materials, the transport and the 'chuck away' factor).

This is also so very true of our 'ever so green minded younger generation' who eat waaaaay too much over manufactured fast foods, who have to have the latest tech every year, who sit on their phones/pc's/ipads/tv's hour after hour with their fancy whiz bang bedroom lighting and Kardashian inspired rubbish, makeup and flashy shoes ........

and don't get me started on the bloody Vegan 'save the planet' d1ck heads ............ to quote John Dutton (YelowStone)

“You ever plow a field? To plant quinoa or sorghum or whatever the hell it is you eat? You kill everything on the ground and under it. You kill every snake, every frog, every mouse, mole, vole, worm, quail…you kill them all. So I guess the only real question is: how cute does an animal have to be before you care if it dies to feed you?”

These 'planet saving' activist wankers need to wake up and smell the bloody roses ........... get the hell off Youtube, Tiktok and Facebook and make your own mind up instead of letting idiots dictate rubbish ........

Shall we also talk about the way our kids are being mind controlled by the woke leftist anti middle aged white male LGBTQXYZ and Indigenous agenda ..... the world is going to hell in more ways that I can count these days ........ and the worst bit, you dare not pull the bastards up and set them straight for fear of being labelled

Oooops Too much?

God I love this forum ....... sorry if I have offended, but honestly, I'm well over 50 now and just don't give a rats arse what people think of me anymore (well, except maybe on here ......... please don't ban me)

100%, could not have said it any better.

[Goo]

In real life, a Toyota RAV Hubrid uses 15-20% MORE fuel than its plain
ICE cousin

We hired a RAV4 Hybrid & drove from Sydney to Cairns and it was fantastic on fuel, costing only around $200 from memory.

When we did another trip they gave us an MG Hybrid instead and not knowing the difference at the time we took it but it was a guzzler, using nearly $600 in fuel to from Brisbane to Sydney. Got to Sydney and made them change it.

Difference is the MG is a plug-in Hybrid (and they don't supply the lead, so you couldn't plug it in if you wanted to), the RAV4 you just drive.

Hanging on to my 5.7 VY Calais for grim death.

[Red CV8 R]

My mum has a RAV4 Hybrid AWD Cruiser, the heaviest variant. I've driven it alot. Our friend has the base model, petrol 2WD. The lightest variant. The Hybrid is much better on fuel. You would need to be driving the Hybrid extremely hard to have it use more fuel than the petrol version. No way you could do it in the city from what I've seen. Would have to be an edge case, surely.

I stay out of discussions on car forums etc. over electric cars, there's so much mis-information. "Car" people (in particular older guys) go truly bonkers over this, especially over Tesla, and the vast majority have never even driven one. Despite me being the only one in the conversation with first hand experience, "car" people still have to tell me all these "facts" to educate me... Not worth the bother.

However, there's one indisputable fact, if you keep your old car and run it cleanly, you're doing more for the environment than any new car buyer, electric or otherwise. Even if your old car is a V8, V10 or V12. Ignoring air quality, a lot of the environmental damage done by cars is in its manufacturing. That damage is already done with an old car. Instead of constantly buying the latest thing every 2 years, enjoy guilt free motoring with an old car

All electric cars are not equal, some of the products out there are junk. It's not a case of driving one electric car and you've experienced them all. No different to saying, I drove a 1997 Hyundai Excel, so I know what a 2023 Porsche 911 GT3 RS feels like. So, If you are at all open to an electric car, I recommend trying the Tesla. Just a warning, if driving a dual battery version, everything else you drive afterwards will feel very slow... I'm still not getting rid of my Monaro though!

[Red CV8 R]

Oh, on the battery recycling thing. These electric car batteries aren't going to land fill, too valuable. What can't be reused or recycled are going to get a second life powering people's houses. Don't believe me, there's a very good Top Gear pod cast by Chris Harris on electric cars. Well worth a listen to.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6lv...QE-zCtSxrvrd7Q

That's the UK too, electric makes even more sense in sunny Australia, with lots of free standing homes and high uptake of solar. We have a lot more sunshine than water, unlike the UK Electric is in its infancy, the future will look very different. Just like the progression over 100 years with petrol powered cars. Anyway, I'll shut up now, I don't want to get booted from the forum...

[Smitty]

wow... everyone luvs the RAV4

in my case, I dont for a moment believe the marketing spin from Toyota
in fact, neither do Nissan who around the world in March in lots of auto markets
put out press releases saying Toyota numbers were porky pies....

didn't that hit the fan.!

some info on the RAV4 Hybrid... btw this info comes from Toyota
it uses a 2.55 litre engine (compared to the original RAV 2 litre)
it weighs (model dependant) 175-240kg more than the standard RAV4
the ICE is used 100% above 80kmh .. so drive MEL to SYD and its all petrol engine
Toyota claim AVERAGE fuel consumption at 4.6 lt/100km *which NISSAN called out as BS
The original 2litre RAV average fuel consumption was 6.9lt/100km
Toyota claim a 30% fuel saving on the HYBRID version (at least their maths is correct)

bigger engine, heavier vehicle says spin at work

and one fact from my next door neighbour who bought a HYBRID as an 'upgrade' to his original 2 litre one
his weekly fuel bill (litres consumed, not $) is approx the same now with the HYBRID as the original
he drives 32km each way to work (bayside Sandy to Knoxfield in Melbourne each day, a fair bit stop/start
and he is not seeing anything like 4.6ltr/100km (he keeps a logbook for his business) and its into 7s

final point, car insurers are putting an extra premium on any Hybrids they insure ... the HYBRID systems
plus the battery itself mean repair costs are much higher which equals higher premiums of course
(as my unlucky next door neighbour found out)

[Red CV8 R]

Not sure why you're getting so excited about this Smitty. I don't have any love for the RAV4, or any SUV. I don't really like them. In particular my friends RAV4 in that horrible blue! Don't particularly like Hybrids either to be honest. Just the experience I had since ones in the family and I've driven it a bit. Drives good for what it is but road and tyre noise is poor for what is a $60k plus vehicle. Mum loves it though!

Neither are my car but, I made some calls out of curiosity. So, a real world comparison. My Mum's RAV4 is sitting in the 5s. My sister's similar age 2.4 litre Nissan X-TRAIL, that does identical driving (they live in the same area), is in the 12s. I know that my sister wasn't impressed with the difference, when I mentioned it, ha! However, like any car, how you drive it and the type of driving you do has an affect.

Even with electric cars, drive them hard and you get a lot less range. Tesla can be bad for this as the acceleration is addictive! Hell, my Monaro when standard never got even remotely close to the figures Holden provided, probably double Anyway, not looking to upset anyone, just sharing what I have been exposed to.

[BLACK 346]

Anyone seen a second hand EV yet? Either private or in a yard. Maybe a bit early at this stage, but I can see people offloading them once the batteries start to decline and then what? Not like an ICE vehicle where at 60, 80, 100k still got plenty of relatively economical life left in them. To me it would be huge risk taking on an EV knowing that it may require new batteries to get anywhere near the claimed range. Will the batteries improve further into the future, or are they already near as good as it is going to get?

PS... Our little 1.4 Twin charged Golf regularly drops in the 5's driving around Adelaide, and averages high 6's low 7's with all city driving. Not bad for a 14 year old petrol engine with 190k under it's belt. It does have to run on 98 only though, so that costs a bit extra.

[Souljah]

*Laughs in Golf TDI*

[Red CV8 R]

Anyone seen a second hand EV yet? Either private or in a yard. Maybe a bit early at this stage, but I can see people offloading them once the batteries start to decline and then what? Not like an ICE vehicle where at 60, 80, 100k still got plenty of relatively economical life left in them. To me it would be huge risk taking on an EV knowing that it may require new batteries to get anywhere near the claimed range. Will the batteries improve further into the future, or are they already near as good as it is going to get?

PS... Our little 1.4 Twin charged Golf regularly drops in the 5's driving around Adelaide, and averages high 6's low 7's with all city driving. Not bad for a 14 year old petrol engine with 190k under it's belt. It does have to run on 98 only though, so that costs a bit extra.

Tesla warranty for batteries is 8 years or between 160,000 to 240,000 kms depending on the model (i.e how much you spend - typical with cars ).

Ignoring warranty, actual battery life depends on how many charges but its expected life can be as long as 500,000 to 800,000 kms depending on model / battery spec and how much charge you expect it to hold. So, some of it will come down to use. In reality, it's all a bit new to know for sure. If I was driving around Australia regularly, I sure as hell wouldn't buy a battery powered car though!

[Red CV8 R]

Interestingly, the Tesla Model Y was the best selling SUV in Australia last month. There will be no shortage of Tesla running around in the future. We also get the China made cars, better quality than the US made cars most of the big markets get.

May 2023 top-sellers listed below:

Tesla Model Y
Toyota RAV4
MG ZS
Hyundai Tucson
Mitsubishi Outlander
Mazda CX-5
BYD Atto 3
Toyota Prado
Toyota LandCruiser
Mazda CX-3

I think I saw that the Tesla Y was only outsold by the Hilux and Ranger.

[Red CV8 R]

Weirdly, Toyota UK cover their Hybrid battery packs for 10 years but Toyota Australia, only 8 years / 160,000 kms. Toyota take all old battery packs and recycle them. You give them the car and they remove and recycle the battery packs at no cost to you. Even if the car is wrecked. You don't send them off to wreckers or land fill.

I do think you would need to be careful as the second or third owner of a an electric or Hybrid car. You could get stuck with some big bills, but I guess you offset that vs how much you would have spent on petrol. Indeed, those huge costs don't deter second, third and fourth petrol euro car owners, those bills can be eye watering!

It's all a consumer choice. Don't get sucked into believing we will all have to be driving electric cars in 15 years. Not going to happen. Especially in Australia. It will probably not even happen in our life time. There's still going to be lots of old and fun petrol cars running around for decades. Lots of daily cars will be electric though, and I think people will like them once the infrastructure improves. It doesn't work well right now for everyone but it will get there.