LS3: Rattling sound when stone cold

[Micks]

Micks: just noticed your comment re 2 minutes being too long. I never said it took 2 minutes - that 2 minutes is from the Wikipedia quote. Mine takes about 1 minute.
Had another listen this morning, after being off for about 7 hours. It seems to me that the "edge" has been taken off the sound - less high frequency energy in the sound - less metallic.

Ok best consult your repairer, no point talking about this until it's pulled down & properly assessed.

[skip100]

I think I'll wait for an opportunity to leave it off for a really long time (at least 12 hours), verify that I still notice the improvement, and if so, just forget about it. Lifter noise when cold seems to be a bit of a grey area. Even if there was nothing wrong at all, as I say, Oztrack advise a lifter replacement every 100,000K anyway, so it's good that I've done this preventative maintenance. For my next hire car, I think I'll get a Lexus. Thanks everyone for your help!

[whitels1ss]

I think I'll wait for an opportunity to leave it off for a really long time (at least 12 hours),
verify that I still notice the improvement, and if so, just forget about it. Lifter noise when cold seems to be a bit of a grey area.


Even if there was nothing wrong at all, as I say, Oztrack advise a lifter replacement every 100,000K anyway,

so it's good that I've done this preventative maintenance.

I have never heard of anyone replacing standard lifters on a standard engine every 100,000kms

or ever seen it as a scheduled maintenance in a service book on any vehicle.

[skip100]

Whitels1ss: I don't know whether the author of that article had standard cars in mind, but from my experience in the hire car industry, I think the advice is DEFINITELY relevant - I think every Caprice owner is aware that the lifters fail prematurely. I mentioned that other driver who's lifter failure was so severe it required the whole engine to be replaced at just 132,000km! My previous V8 (L98) had a lifter fail at 175,000 - again - the roller came loose, and did actually damage the camshaft. It's common knowledge in our industry. I thought by now they'd have rectified the problem - I was wrong!

[whitels1ss]

I have been in the motor trade for many years,

Yes, modified cars with aftermarket cams & heavy valve springs etc do require more service replacement of valve train components.


Have personally seen a standard LS1 with 475,000kms & never opened, still running strong.

One member on the forum has posted stories about his with over 500,00kms.

There are plenty running around with over 250,000kms with all original lifters in them.



I know some things can fail early but that's not normal it's a fault.

[skip100]

Of course they are faults - I know that. I'm saying that lifter failure in the HC industry, with the LS V8s, is common. We all talk amongst ourselves about car problems, and I assure you it's common. That's why I think Oztrack's advice makes sense, even if it was more meant for performance cars.
Just btw, wasn't the LS1 a high performance variant, used in HSVs etc? Was it built stronger than, say, the L98?

[whitels1ss]

The LS1 was just the 5.7 LS engine that first came out in 1999 in the VT series II & ran through to the VZ. (Both Holden & HSV)

It also was used in Statesman / Caprice of the same era. (Thousands sold)

They sold many Holdens & HSV's with them until they upsized to the 6.0 litre towards the end of the VZ series.

[skip100]

Ah, ok. Well, you're going back a very long time. I'm referring to the 6L engines - I have no knowledge of the reliability of the 5.7L engines in the HC industry.

[whitels1ss]

The member with the 500,000km LS1 from memory is in the hire car business & I think he is in Melbourne
but I could be mistaken on that?
He had a thread about his car but I can't locate it or remember his username at the moment.

If anyone else can link his thread it will be greatly appreciated.

[skip100]

Just asked two other HC drivers about their engine rebuilds:
One had lifters and cam done at 138,000,the other lifters (at least - not sure about cam) at 118,000. (but his was warranty). This was a few years ago, so L98 or the AFM variant etc.

[whitels1ss]

The member with the 500,000km LS1 from memory is in the hire car business & I think he is in Melbourne
but I could be mistaken on that?
He had a thread about his car but I can't locate it or remember his username at the moment.

I found it!

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...S-at-long-last

Also read post#23 there is another one that had done 630,000kms & this was 13 years ago....

EDIT... The member's car I was talking about with 500,000kms was sold at 612,000kms a few years later...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...-CAPRICE-CHEAP

(In the post on the classifieds advert it said "the car ran a 14.6 @ 97mph with 525,000kms on the clock" at Calder Park.

IMHO that's a great result.

[skip100]

One of the aforementioned drivers goes on to say:

I’ve rebuilt 6 Caprices. (1 Twice). All V8. Some just over 100,000. So out of warranty. But guys who got warranty, were without there cars for about 6 weeks. The fault was poor design of the oil pumps. Too small. When replaced with a bigger and better pump, no problem.

[whitels1ss]

Yeah, they did have some problems with some early LS1's (most were piston slap issues)
plenty of early (mainly 1999 & 2000) models had new engines fitted under warranty.

The later models were much better.

[skip100]

The later models might be better, but they are still RUBBISH, at least in the HC industry. There is absolutely no doubt about it.

[skip100]

Having just re-read that Oztrack article, it is actually very clear that it does apply to stock cars. E.g:

Statistically the most common problem that presents itself even to fairly new engines that are unmodified and even more so in older engines that are modified is hydraulic lifter failure.